New USEF Rules

[Rubyroo]

@erinmeri

I’m sorry, but explain to me how $300 annually, even when applied to one or two shows, is a significant expense when compared to the myriad fees and expenses required to show rated? It’s, what? $800 for a single day versus $500, if you show a single day in a class or two? That’s just my off the cuff math, and I am probably being conservative. You can’t convince me that it is a major deterrent when the deterrent to even show a single day rated for me is the cost. $500 vs let’s say even more generously, $1000, isn’t a huge difference. Amortized if you show more, it is even less so.

Are you really questioning that a not-so-horsey parent who is used to spending $500 per year for a horse show is now going to happily spend $800 to not only get NOTHING more for that extra $300, but also has to complete an hours long online training or else she doesn’t even get the privilege to spend that extra $300, rather than just tell her kid she can’t go to that one special show anymore?

[erinmeri]

@Rubyroo

Are you really questioning that a not-so-horsey parent who is used to spending $500 per year for a horse show is now going to happily spend $800 to not only get NOTHING more for that extra $300, but also has to complete an hours long online training or else she doesn’t even get the privilege to spend that extra $300, rather than just tell her kid she can’t go to that one special show anymore?

Yes, I am seriously questioning 1) that a parent would be spending $500 a year on horse shows (and if they are, why is showing rated important?), and 2) for the vast majority it is amortized over a season, so I wonder why that is so burdensome, 3) why it is a hardship, since that isn’t very much money if they are already involved in horses, period, and 4) that if this is what it takes to invest parents in the safety of their own kids, in an already expensive sport… maybe it’s a necessary evil…. So why so reluctant?

[CBoylen]

It’s cool, you’ve come to the same conclusion they have. Don’t show rated.
Unfortunately, that will eventually become everyone’s problem.

[erinmeri]

@CBoylen

It’s cool, you’ve come to the same conclusion they have. Don’t show rated.
Unfortunately, that will eventually become everyone’s problem.

It’s already everyone’s problem… and it has very little to do with SS and USEF trying to clean up our sport.

[fivestrideline]

It 100% is a major deterrent. I was that kid, who wanted to do one or two A’s, smaller and local, as Destination Events to have fun with barn friends and get some nice pictures. Scrimped and saved to be able to go AT ALL. Had a trainer waive their fees and braid my horse themself so we could go. An extra $300 would’ve been the breaking point, though the training would’ve been done but only because my mom was so, so supportive and involved. We made it happen, it was a BLAST, and those memories I still treasure. I know there are kids out there, a LOT of them, like me and who maybe don’t have access to the high quality local competition I did or whose parent/guardian just can’t be as committed and involved to sit through FOUR HOURS of online training. I support SS but comparing it to my workplace trainings (which are far shorter and I’m getting paid to do them) is very unrealistic.
This change will narrow the field. The attitude of “it’s just a drop in the bucket” is how we got here - night check fees, stall fees, office fees, membership fees, drug fees, etc etc etc all add up. Another $300 absolutely will keep out people who used to JUST be able to justify a show or two. Which I guess is the type of person USEF doesn’t want at their shows anyways

[Dutchmare433]

A USEF membership is $80 per year. I’m not sure where the $300 figure came from.

[erinmeri]

@fivestrideline

It 100% is a major deterrent. I was that kid, who wanted to do one or two A’s, smaller and local, as Destination Events to have fun with barn friends and get some nice pictures. Scrimped and saved to be able to go AT ALL. Had a trainer waive their fees and braid my horse themself so we could go. An extra $300 would’ve been the breaking point, though the training would’ve been done but only because my mom was so, so supportive and involved. We made it happen, it was a BLAST, and those memories I still treasure. I know there are kids out there, a LOT of them, like me and who maybe don’t have access to the high quality local competition I did or whose parent/guardian just can’t be as committed and involved to sit through FOUR HOURS of online training. I support SS but comparing it to my workplace trainings (which are far shorter and I’m getting paid to do them) is very unrealistic.
This change will narrow the field. The attitude of “it’s just a drop in the bucket” is how we got here - night check fees, stall fees, office fees, membership fees, drug fees, etc etc etc all add up. Another $300 absolutely will keep out people who used to JUST be able to justify a show or two. Which Iguess is the type of person USEF doesn’t want at their shows anyways

I guess I see things differently. I currently can’t afford to show schooling or rated shows. But, as I make my calculus of when and if or how I can show, a $300 fee over a year isn’t likely to be high on my list. And if it does deter me from rated showing, I will probably take that money and make it go further at an unrated show or two. Why are we pretending that $300 is some big barrier to access in a sport where that might not even pay for a set of shoes? Or that kids who could maybe do one rated show are somehow losing out on the enjoyment of horses because they can’t do a rated show over a $300 fee? I had plenty of amazing experiences outside the A show ring with horses. Is this debate worth the alternative? That we just ignore decades upon decades of indifference? I don’t think so.

[Rubyroo]

@erinmeri

Yes, I am seriously questioning 1) that a parent would be spending $500 a year on horse shows (and if they are, why is showing rated important?), and 2) for the vast majority it is amortized over a season, so I wonder why that is so burdensome, 3) why it is a hardship, since that isn’t very much money if they are already involved in horses, period, and 4) that if this is what it takes to invest parents in the safety of their own kids, in an already expensive sport… maybe it’s a necessary evil…. So why so reluctant?

This rule doesn’t seem to apply to the kids who show regularly at rated shows and board with a trainer; it is targeting those kids who keep their ponies/horses at home and take lessons with an outside trainer who like to take their kids to one or two nice A rated shows per year as a fun thing for everyone. Those are the parents who are spending $500 per year on rated horse shows, and those are the parents who will no longer be sending their kids to rated horse shows since it will now cost them $800 plus time spent completing online training.

[erinmeri]

@Dutchmare433

A USEF membership is $80 per year. I’m not sure where the $300 figure came from.

LOL, probably me! I thought I was quoting someone else’s figure… but it appears I may have made that up. Underscores my point even better… a few hours and $80? That is a hardship? Wow.

ETA: wasn’t me… that was @CBoylen:

[skydy]

@skydy

I can see that it could be an issue for USEF if the trainer doesn’t want to take responsibility for a horse stabled at home and a non-member parent signs. If the horse tests, how can USEF impose a penalty if the responsible adult who signs as trainer/coach is not a member?

Quoting myself to see if anyone has an answer to my question.

[Rubyroo]

@skydy

Quoting myself to see if anyone has an answer to my question.

Ban the horse for a specific amount of time, even if it gets sold within the banned time frame?

[skydy]

More rule changes?

[erinmeri]

I just have to now laugh that we are calling $80 and 4 hours a barrier to entry that will ruin our sport.

[MHM]

I don’t know the numbers off the top of my head, but I would think the kid has to become a member, the parent who is going to sign as a coach has to become a member, not just of USEF but also USHJA.

That could become a deterrent pretty quickly for someone who was thinking of dipping a toe in the waters of a rated show but decided to just stick with the unrated shows instead.

And that’s before you even factor in the safe sport training.

[CBoylen]

Parent plus kid USEF, plus two shows of USHJA show passes for both, presuming USHJA doesn’t follow suit and remove the multiple show pass option. $280, sorry. You could previously do those two shows for your kid for $120, $60 in show passes per show.

[erinmeri]

@CBoylen

Parent plus kid USEF, plus two shows of USHJA show passes for both, presuming USHJA doesn’t follow suit and remove the multiple show pass option. $280, sorry. You could previously do those two shows for your kid for $120, $60 in show passes per show.

And how much are they paying for lessons, lease/board, etc to even be able to play? What’s the low-level annual investment on a schoolie to make said fees so prohibitory?

[CBoylen]

I’m not sure why you think spending money makes people want to spend more money. It usually works the other way around.

[skydy]

I don’t think that USEF is asking too much, that the adults taking responsibility for following USEF rules by signing as coach/trainer or guardian, be a member of the organization.

As I mentioned, it’s rather difficult to enforce the rules when a non-member is taking responsibility.

[Dutchmare433]

Even better. The first year I did my safesport training (so the longest), it took less than 90mins. Maybe only an hour.

[erinmeri]

That isn’t what I am saying. As a horse owner in a show barn, I make my decisions based on not just what makes me happy, but what is realistic. And knowing what it costs to even have a horse, I am not detered by an extra few hundred bucks annually. Mostly because my horse sees that fee and says, “hold my beer”, and I pay the vet/farrier accordingly. Because, horses.