New USEF Safe Sport Requirement

[2bayboys]

@dags

Strong FB commentary out there today that definitely rings in the ‘new governing body’ corner. I am just sitting here contemplating how that even happens… what are the logistics of that? Do you just throw an 8 week pop up show next door to WEF? If you’re a big player that makes a living selling high end horses, you can’t just walk away from winters in Wellington. Summers in NY. Devon… Indoors…

I’m sure the potential new PTB are tossing these ideas around and I would love to be a fly on those walls. I can’t even begin the mental agility this kerfuffle requires.

Anyhoo, super interesting article on Deadspin of all places, which is actually what I came here to share. I’m only about halfway through but lets just say we are not the only sport questioning the USOC and SafeSport: https://deadspin.com/safesport-the-u…-se-1826279217

This little bit stood out for me from that article, revealing the bias of the author:

"But Congress itself can’t be bothered to fund the SafeSport center (and, it’s worth noting, has previously held hearings to berate Olympic leaders that accomplished little beyond generating headlines and press releases). It has provided zero dollars directly to SafeSport and instead set up a grant that the center has to apply for—via the attorney general’s office, the same one that recently played a role in separating immigrant parents and their children. That grant, which SafeSport will have to spend time and money to get, is for about $2.2 million. It’s telling that even Congress, the very architects of the American Olympic movement, can’t be bothered to do more than the barest of minimums.

For all the hoopla and all the press releases and all the hearings where elected officials scowl for the cameras, nothing has changed, with the notable exception of the SafeSport brand suddenly appearing everywhere. No children are any safer."

[dags]

I don’t understand the argument that because the non-members working the shows don’t have to take SS that it’s just silly to then require it of the membership. If you are looking for a place to start, this is the logical step. It’s a bit baby & bathwater-esque to not even try - when members are the majority of bodies on the show grounds - just because USEF can’t legally govern the food stand guy.

There’s a criminal justice system for food stand guy and jump crew guy. Their crimes are not likely to stem from “grooming”, they’re not going to get anywhere by withholding your hot dog. It will be an assault, and I am betting no random groom or food stand guy or jump crew is going to get away with assaulting any of the otherwise very well-protected horse show kids.

I was shoved in a stall and kissed by a groom when I was 14 and you bet I ran straight to BO (who I was momentarily afraid might kill the guy) and he was off the property in 90 seconds. I have never been in the situation where the abuser was also the source of my rides, or the doctor that had to sign me off to play. THAT, which has been revealed in multiple sports to be a true problem, is the situation SS is designed for.

[Tackpud]

@ynl063w

If they aren’t members of USE, USE can’t require them to follow their rules. Seriously, is that really that difficult to understand?

But wouldn’t it be awesome if show management required all of their staff/crew to take the training and have background checks?!?!

[Highflyer]

@Tackpud

But wouldn’t it be awesome if show management required all of their staff/crew to take the training and have background checks?!?!

That seems like a lot for people who are probably not full time employees and who have limited interaction with juniors.

[trubandloki]

@dags

I don’t understand the argument that because the non-members working the shows don’t have to take SS that it’s just silly to then require it of the membership. If you are looking for a place to start, this is the logical step. It’s a bit baby & bathwater-esque to not even try - when members are the majority of bodies on the show grounds - just because USEF can’t legally govern the food stand guy.

I can not speak for the person who posted that, but I do not read it as ‘why make anyone if everyone is not doing it’. I read it as ‘it is scary how many people are on the grounds who will not have to do anything but are still there’.

[dags]

@trubandloki

I can not speak for the person who posted that, but I do not read it as ‘why make anyone if everyone is not doing it’. I read it as ‘it is scary how many people are on the grounds who will not have to do anything but are still there’.

But that’s true when you drop your kids off at the mall. That’s life. That’s a ridiculous level of governance being proposed by people that have been nothing but anti-governance?!

[ynl063w]

@trubandloki

I can not speak for the person who posted that, but I do not read it as ‘why make anyone if everyone is not doing it’. I read it as ‘it is scary how many people are on the grounds who will not have to do anything but are still there’.

That’s pretty much true everywhere on the planet, not just horse show grounds.

[2bayboys]

@dags

I don’t understand the argument that because the non-members working the shows don’t have to take SS that it’s just silly to then require it of the membership. If you are looking for a place to start, this is the logical step. It’s a bit baby & bathwater-esque to not even try - when members are the majority of bodies on the show grounds - just because USEF can’t legally govern the food stand guy.

There’s a criminal justice system for food stand guy and jump crew guy. Their crimes are not likely to stem from “grooming”, they’re not going to get anywhere by withholding your hot dog. It will be an assault, and I am betting no random groom or food stand guy or jump crew is going to get away with assaulting any of the otherwise very well-protected horse show kids.

I was shoved in a stall and kissed by a groom when I was 14 and you bet I ran straight to BO (who I was momentarily afraid might kill the guy) and he was off the property in 90 seconds. I have never been in the situation where the abuser was also the source of my rides, or the doctor that had to sign me off to play. THAT, which has been revealed in multiple sports to be a true problem, is the situation SS is designed for.

I completely agree.

If jump crew guy sexually assaults a junior rider, the police are called.

If BNT sexually assaults a junior rider, all his friends and fan base close ranks around him and vilify the victim.

[TooManyBays]

@dags

Strong FB commentary out there today that definitely rings in the ‘new governing body’ corner. I am just sitting here contemplating how that even happens… what are the logistics of that? Do you just throw an 8 week pop up show next door to WEF? If you’re a big player that makes a living selling high end horses, you can’t just walk away from winters in Wellington. Summers in NY. Devon… Indoors…

I’m sure the potential new PTB are tossing these ideas around and I would love to be a fly on those walls. I can’t even begin the mental agility this kerfuffle requires.

Anyhoo, super interesting article on Deadspin of all places, which is actually what I came here to share. I’m only about halfway through but lets just say we are not the only sport questioning the USOC and SafeSport: https://deadspin.com/safesport-the-u…-se-1826279217

I think we are going to start seeing a lot more unrated shows giving away big prize money. Money talks, and if you can go show at some place that has no extra fees USEF has been tacking on, less policing on medications, and big prize money people will go there.

[atl_hunter]

@gottagrey

Put me in the same category as you Sticky. Many of us in the corporate world have to take “mandatory harassment” training which emphasizes the company’s “zero tolerance” policies on harassment. I’m not sure about Sticky, but having witnessed at least 2 or 3 incidents falling under the Zero tolerance policy which got 1 victim fired, another feeling she had no other alternative other than to resign, and another occasion where the perpetrator (the office head muckety muck) was given the heads up to resign or head would roll (completely against the “zero tolerance policy” In that case, fortunately a C-level woman executive reported the other female staff member’s complaints - had the staff members reported it I’m sure they would’ve fallen under the “we’re growing in another direction and you’re no longer a good fit” category. So yeah, I’m a bit cynical about these training modules as well.

My company has had such policies in place for years, and what I saw was:

1. First woman got fired and did nothing - did get a severance

2. Second woman got a mid 6-figure settlement (hers was sexual, racial, etc…) due to the behavior of our dept director.

3, Third woman got a 6-figure settlement due to the behavior of our dept director. She was fired when she called in sick to a trade show. She was diagnosed with pleurisy and couldn’t go, and firing her was retaliatory because she had previously called boss out for bad behavior and he had made it known to all he was going to fire her.

4. I was next, and I didn’t want to leave the company, so I formally reported the director and expressed that if a correction was not made I would file an EEOC complaint. He had put me on a PIP and the summary was WORD FOR WORD the same as all other 3 women above. I figured I had nothing to lose as it was clear he was setting me up for his usual firing. He was being super inappropriate - would “drop” things and make you pick them up, would tell us stories about his nudity, stare at our breasts, lunged across the desk at a coworker, and once pointed at me within 6 inches of my nose. He had also been hooking up with a subordinate and had given her a new position with special travel privileges. HR took my complaint seriously and he was let go within 2 weeks of my formal complaint, and I was allowed to work from home if I desired until they had a solution, It should not have taken 4 women, but I was the one with the appropriate documentation as I kept a summary with dates, times and people present. This was before you could whip out your iPhone and record things - we had Blackberries at the time.

5. My next time was my female manager who attempted to kiss me while drunk after a team meeting was also eventually removed - took some time - and then she tried to sue our company for harassment! I had all kinds of interesting text messages from her. Good times!!

I had gone to a career coach before I went to HR and the coach told me these things rarely ever benefit the victim. But I had 36 pages of specific examples (even in emails) where the EEOC was violated so it was going to be a bit of a mess for the company if they didn’t do something about it, as I was dead serious that my next step was to report if nothing was done.

All it takes is one person to file an EEOC complaint and a company will take things seriously. Nobody wants to deal with the investigation that follows if they suspect it may be true.

And I still believe the SafeSport training is a bit pathetic when compared to the corporate training I get.

[2bayboys]

@TooManyBays

I think we are going to start seeing a lot more unrated shows giving away big prize money. Money talks, and if you can go show at some place that has no extra fees USEF has been tacking on, less policing on medications, and big prize money people will go there.

Maybe. But if your business model is selling horses, you make a lot more money on the horse that qualified for Indoors than on the horse that won x amount of prize money at an unrecognized horse show.

[Bethe_Mounce]

A start in awareness even if some of the course doesn’t quite apply to the equine sport. I have to take and pass certain tests every year or two years in my industry. Awareness is key to keeping the general public safe; awareness is about knowing what to look for and reporting. No child deserves to deal with the scars of abuse in any form. Prevention and Protection are tantamount to keeping our kids safe.

[Nickelodian]

@trubandloki

It is only free if you have internet access. And as crazy as it may seem to some of you, there are still people who do not have internet access at home. With a limited data plan a half hour program would probably get expensive on a phone.
Though I suppose the library is an option, or work during lunch.
I am simply pointing out that not everyone has unlimited access to the internet.

I’m sorry, but this is quite frankly one of the dumbest things I’ve read all year, though it is only August. The people that are required to take this training are paying $80 for USEF and $85 for USHJA to even be eligible to take the training. Let’s say this same A/A person ONLY competes in C shows (lowest rating) where they ride a lesson horse once a week with the goal of competing in 2’6. 1 lesson x week @50 dollars per week, hauling to one day C show @100 dollars, three classes @25 dollars each, office fee @50 dollars, training fee @100 dollars, concession stand food @30 dollars, riding outfit (breeches, boots, helmet, shirt, gloves) assumed ALL used at 100 dollars total. I mean that is just about the lowest I can possibly imagine, with a grand total of $3,240 for one single show. You’re telling me this person has no access to internet for 30 minutes?

In no way is this training a limiting factor to accessing horse shows.

[trubandloki]

@Nickelodian

I’m sorry, but this is quite frankly one of the dumbest things I’ve read all year, though it is only August. The people that are required to take this training are paying $80 for USEF and $85 for USHJA to even be eligible to take the training. Let’s say this same A/A person ONLY competes in C shows (lowest rating) where they ride a lesson horse once a week with the goal of competing in 2’6. 1 lesson x week @50 dollars per week, hauling to one day C show @100 dollars, three classes @25 dollars each, office fee @50 dollars, training fee @100 dollars, concession stand food @30 dollars, riding outfit (breeches, boots, helmet, shirt, gloves) assumed ALL used at 100 dollars total. I mean that is just about the lowest I can possibly imagine, with a grand total of $3,240 for one single show. You’re telling me this person has no access to internet for 30 minutes?

In no way is this training a limiting factor to accessing horse shows.

Sorry to cause you to be so judgemental.
I know from experience that some people do very limited rated horse showing and on a very strict budget. Maybe not something you are used to, but I know it happens. Their one or two shows a year is their entire expendable income budget where they already work to pay for their lessons, they already do not eat out (and they bring their food to the show), and all those other price cutting measures people take. Sure, most people at shows have money but not everyone.

The other side of that coin is also that lots of people live in parts of the world (rural in other words) where there is no high speed internet available so they either have crazy slow internet or they do not bother with it at all.

[MHM]

@Tackpud

But wouldn’t it be awesome if show management required all of their staff/crew to take the training and have background checks?!?!

It would be awesome but probably impractical in many cases. It’s hard enough to fill many of the necessary slots at a horse show as it is. And as others have pointed out, the people in those slots have a completely different dynamic in their interactions with kids at shows.

[HJdaydream]

@trubandloki

Sorry to cause you to be so judgemental.
I know from experience that some people do very limited rated horse showing and on a very strict budget. Maybe not something you are used to, but I know it happens. Their one or two shows a year is their entire expendable income budget where they already work to pay for their lessons, they already do not eat out (and they bring their food to the show), and all those other price cutting measures people take. Sure, most people at shows have money but not everyone.

The other side of that coin is also that lots of people live in parts of the world (rural in other words) where there is no high speed internet available so they either have crazy slow internet or they do not bother with it at all.

If you live in a rural area, I think we can safely assume you have transportation, and that at some point you have to come into town to buy food/supplies. During one of those trips into town, I think we can safely assume you can stop by one of the MANY establishments with free wifi (McDonalds, Panera, Starbucks, etc. Tons of places offer it these days). It seems that a one time per year requirement of approximately 1 hr should be do able for everyone, does it not?

I am being totally honest, and not trying to be facetious. I just do not see “lack of internet” as an actual hurdle. Inconvenient maybe, but not a true limiting factor.

[trubandloki]

@HJdaydream

I am being totally honest, and not trying to be facetious. I just do not see “lack of internet” as an actual hurdle. Inconvenient maybe, but not a true limiting factor.

Not saying it is a true limiting factor.
It is simply a point that many people miss - they forget that everyone can not sit on their couch for 30 minutes or an hour (depending whose time line you believe on this topic), being able to pause while they made dinner or take the dog for a walk. Some people will have to make this an intentional time using thing.
Not saying that is not possible.
Just countering the ‘what is the big deal, it only takes 30 minutes of your life’ point.

If I had to do this I would end up doing it at work. Which is where I get my internet access. Someone like Mr. Trub would not even be able to do that since their company system does not allow personal internet surfing and they have all kinds of blocks on it that makes it so some very normal places are not accessible.

Again, I was never saying there are not options. I am simply pointing out that it is not ‘totally simple’ like some people want to say it is. I am sure anyone who really wants to join can find a place to do this training it might just take them extra time and effort and not be totally simple.

[Nickelodian]

@trubandloki

Sorry to cause you to be so judgemental.
I know from experience that some people do very limited rated horse showing and on a very strict budget. Maybe not something you are used to, but I know it happens. Their one or two shows a year is their entire expendable income budget where they already work to pay for their lessons, they already do not eat out (and they bring their food to the show), and all those other price cutting measures people take. Sure, most people at shows have money but not everyone.

The other side of that coin is also that lots of people live in parts of the world (rural in other words) where there is no high speed internet available so they either have crazy slow internet or they do not bother with it at all.

I’m not being judgmental, I’m being frank. I work with the indigent population on a daily basis, and for these people, yes a 30 minute training would be a barrier to say…getting a job. However a 30 minute training is NOT a barrier to any one on even the most strict budget for one or two horse shows a year. Your statement has taken away a grand total of 30 dollars on my budget lowering it to $3,210 for ONE show.

As mentioned earlier this person has the transportation to get to an establishment that offers free wifi. There are SO many barriers to attending a show, 30 minutes of training online is simply not one of them.

[poltroon]

The issue of rural internet is certainly real. I can think of someone I know who will have a challenge getting the access (no laptop, no smartphone) and there are areas less than 5 miles from me that due to topography can’t get satellite or cell internet.

That said: the world is increasingly intolerant of people not having internet and it’s becoming less and less realistic to do without some sort of high speed access for all kinds of day to day needs, let alone horses.

So I’m sympathetic but there are solutions. One is to take a portable device into town where you can use free wifi at some business - Starbucks is the obvious one but around here there’s also free internet at the library and around the medical center. A school or community center may also have access.

If you have a topography problem, there are ways to relay it if you have line of sight via fixed wireless to someone who has better access than you.

Having the option to take the training online certainly beats having to attend in person.

Meanwhile, keep advocating for rural broadband. For many people in our society, lack of broadband is keeping them from being able to apply for a job, since now many applications and listings are all online.

[kirbydog]

It would have been nice to actually get the email…I have been a member for forever, and frequently don’t get these pretty important messages. It’s ridiculous that I have to figure out what is being talked about on Face Book, on COTH forum. How can they police anything, if they can’t even get communications with the membership right?