I’m sorry for the outcome. Terrible news to recieve.
Maybe someday you will be in a position to be able to do right for another horse in need in memory of him. A fitting tribute.
Personally, I’d want to hear it(the truth) from the attending vet – and perhaps recorded or in writing.
Just saying.
For Laurierace: I did a confirmation – Kelsey LaFever’s licensing has been revoked for taking horses directly to kill auctions (for a specific trainer) She is facing several additional (related) very serious charges.
[QUOTE=Lady Counselor;5651720]
I’m sorry for the outcome. Terrible news to recieve.
Maybe someday you will be in a position to be able to do right for another horse in need in memory of him. A fitting tribute.[/QUOTE]
I look forward to one day being able to regularly do this - my dream would be to live at, or be part of a farm overseeing lots of retired, well cared for Thoroughbreds.
I took one of the partnership horses last year and placed him at best friend’s farm. He’s doing beautifully - I can visit him whenever I want, he has the best care, and after a year off is just beginning work under saddle. I was directly on that partnership and watched over him like a hawk since there was a volatile number of whiny members wanting to constantly run him, too. I encouraged his winter breaks, and he gave us a win at Belmont each year for 4 years in good company.
Sadly I had encouraged SO and family members to purchase shares of Iguazu after being promised it would be a ‘limited number of shares’. That turned out to be false, the partnership became mishandled, and thus the result.
I still am passionate about both racing and Thoroughbreds, and what I’m doing now is trying to create a partnership model that considers “when to retire the horse” up front. I don’t know how saleable it will be. But I will never again go in on one where I don’t know the true character of the principals involved.
The racing world needs more owners and partners like you CV Peg. Thank you for caring.
Nancy
[QUOTE=SwtVixen;5652013]
Personally, I’d want to hear it(the truth) from the attending vet – and perhaps recorded or in writing.
Just saying.
For Laurierace: I did a confirmation – Kelsey LaFever’s licensing has been revoked for taking horses directly to kill auctions (for a specific trainer) She is facing several additional (related) very serious charges.[/QUOTE]
If that is true it is news to me. Sending a horse to slaughter is not a crime but committing a crime is of course a crime so maybe the license was pulled for the several additional very serious charges? So that the person was considered a detriment to racing?
[QUOTE=CVPeg;5651436]
Well, Iguazu did drop quickly from MSW after managing partner was told he needed more time - to Maiden Claimers$35k? then $25k then $10k (or he would have been dropped into $7500 if that had come up first). So, no, I am livid that managing partner, who tries to promote himself as an altruistic partnership, instead kept running the horse back so we “wouldn’t have to pay cash calls.” To me, it was obvious he should have been stopped earlier.[/QUOTE]
This horse’s record indicates otherwise. He ran once MSW, obviously outclassed. Next start dropped into a Maiden Claimer, and ran very well. Races were well spaced out, he certainly wasnt run into the ground. Im thinking theres more sour grapes to this story than meets the eye. This partnership is well respected, I know people who have been involved with them for years. I personally know that they claimed a horse back that had been claimed from them and retired, 2 years later, for no other reason than to get him off the track and in a good home.
Methinks theres way more to this story than meets the eye.
[QUOTE=halo;5652949]
This horse’s record indicates otherwise. He ran once MSW, obviously outclassed. Next start dropped into a Maiden Claimer, and ran very well. Races were well spaced out, he certainly wasnt run into the ground. Im thinking theres more sour grapes to this story than meets the eye. This partnership is well respected, I know people who have been involved with them for years. I personally know that they claimed a horse back that had been claimed from them and retired, 2 years later, for no other reason than to get him off the track and in a good home.
Methinks theres way more to this story than meets the eye.[/QUOTE]
Yes, there certainly is much more here than meets the eye. And you don’t know what you’re talking about.
I began to waste a great deal of time writing a rebuttal - but I’m not going to be lulled into too many particulars, other than to say there have been numerous irregularities, including myriad financial, legal and contractual issues, poor decision making, and countless instances of the managing partner taking credit for efforts of numerous others, including the horses being bought back to be retired. You can claim to be instrumental in retiring a former runner, but it doesn’t mean you are necessarily the one putting up the cash.
The majority of partners have enjoyed their involvement from afar, or as a respite from NYC, and most having limited knowledge of racing and especially of equine management and care, so have taken the management’s word as gospel. So you know someone, who knows someone, while I was there…
I have spent four years, with several other friends and family members also involved as partners, trying to make sense of an individual who makes no sense at all other than to try to get his own ego stroked, and to try to become the racing expert he isn’t. If he just wanted his obsession and love of racing to be all consuming to himself, without it involving the health of the partnership’s horses, or the investment of all of those they have attracted, that would be fine. Unfortunately, they have a great deal of responsibility above and beyond partners merely enjoying their day at the races, or their saying they own a piece of a racehorse.
If you were an actual partner in this partnership, seriously studying what was going on with their horses, you would have eventually gotten to the place where I have. See how many partners have gone through the revolving door of this partnership…especially if they begin to ask questions.
I have been around horses my entire life, mostly Thoroughbreds. From the beginning, something was wrong with the way things were presented to us, particularly the finger pointing to everyone else, but I pretended not to see - probably much like your friend has - so that I could enjoy the comraderie that this group had. But at some point, the emperor wears no clothes.
And for you to say “this horse wasn’t run into the ground”. Well, considering the eventual disastrous result here, I’ll just let that comment speak for itself as to its accuracy.
Iguazu paid the price for someone’s wrong headed leadership. If that isn’t reason enough to be angry, I don’t know what is.
Sorry, but at least about the race record I’d say halo looks about right–the horse was very outclassed in the MSW, did so-so in the 35ks, eh in the 25s, and looked like he might have been competitive in the 10ks. He didn’t have any unreasonably close-together races unless there was an underlying gross unsoundness (his last few finishes don’t suggest he was in any real trouble.) If that schedule was enough to run him into the ground then he was in trouble no matter who owned him and breaking was only a matter of time.
He had a full year off between his first and second start.
It makes perfect sense to bing a horse that needed a year back at the MCL level instead of MSW. (Because presumably he’d had some “issues” beyond just needing more time)
I agree its a fair race record, it sits well with what I have been taught and seen in action.
Now I also will say that I can’t see how often he was worked, at what speeds, on what condition surfaces etc.
Moreover I think that when something sad like this happens and you feel like you could see it coming, anyone would be angry and start pointing fingers more aggressively. Especially if its been a sour situation for you for a long time.
My question becomes, with all the syndicates out there… why not just switch?
Surely there are a few morally and ethically responsible organizations already? And if not, why not just get out of ownership until you can afford to own one horse and send it to a smart trainer you see eye to eye with.
Far as I can tell, no one forced you to stay in this business relationship.
Horses with the best care and maintenance break down, as do ones with lackluster care. And then there are ones that should have broken down four times over but never do. Its not just bad management, its bad luck.
And as someone who has loved Tb’s as long as you have, you should know this.
~Emily
I know exactly what Im talking about, have been involved with people in this partnership for years, and have had horses they have saved off the track in my backyard. And yes, one of my best friends is involved in several of their partnerships, and has been for years. Their take very good care of their horses, and do they best they can do to insure that horses that have been in their care find a good spot to land. It can’t be done with all, as once a horse leaves ones hands, theres little you can do, but I have seen them over and over claim, or buy horses, that have been good to them, or even ones that havent, and found good homes for them. Thats a lot more than I can say for a lot of people.
It sounds like you have alot of issues with this partnership and it’s management. If that is the case, I’d leave.
That said, I will venture a guess that you will have similar issues elsewhere as many grossly exaggerate the quality of the horses and assume that anyone investing with them is a mushroom. (One major group had a 2yo colt on their site a couple of years ago available for $8k for a 10% share. Nice looking horse, decent pedigree, but he’d already LOST 2x in MDCL$35k!!!)
I have dealt with many groups and my experience is (in most, not all cases) the more you know, the less you like. Most of the management teams are well salaried, win or lose. They are playing at a high level with OPM, sitting in box seats, smiling for the camera while partners can’t get a table or go to the winner’s circle. The same managers are no where to be seen when things go wrong.
I do know some of the CVF’s partners and I am acquainted with the managing partner. They have had very good success with modest priced horses, particularly claiming. Bringing along young horses and starting your own involves a different set of risks. At least if you claim, you have a decent idea of where they fit.
I saw almost every one of Iguazu’s races and his career path was not atypical. He clearly had some issues and while the operation has done right by many of it’s former horses, they simply cannot keep all of them and continue to hope to generate any income for the partners. Some have to be dropped to be claimed.
When it was clear that Iguazu was going to drop did you or any of the group make an offer to buy out the other partners to retire him? A partnership formed to introduce folks to racing and hopefully return money to said investors cannot be run like a charity, or you’d be getting $25 cash calls every day.
What happened to Iguazu is very unfortunate, but as Xctrygirl said, horses breakdown. Barbaro broke down. Eight Bells broke down.
I know everyone needs to search for explanations now that the conspiracy theorists are out. But the development of this horse did not follow the typical pattern of a 2yo, or 3yo in training, or even one with some problems along the way. MP was going through crises of non-decision, failure to be open and honest about standard hiccups in a young horse’s development, and even introduced a legal smokescreen in the middle of this all. His training became a messy tug-of-war that we on the sidelines had to watch while further inaccurate discussions of the whole mess were conveyed to unknowing partners.
I have an arm’s length list of all the issues, but I am moving on, and will not go into most details here. But hopefully the following will give you all further understanding of my feeling the need to say something in warning.
1)I never set out for a witch hunt here, but was trying to find out what happened to the horse. I tried not to discuss particulars of names, others brought those in. I just cared where the horse was, and how he was faring. Because of past double speak, I didn’t trust that MP would follow up.
-
In the first years, I heard stories of upset partners, and wrote them off as disgruntled and inexperienced as I am sure you are characterizing me. But in recent months, in passing, I have run into more individuals who have been burned by this group. As with all first impressions, I take them with grains of salt, but they kept piling up.
-
Since this thread begain, I have been contacted by even more previously involved who did not have positive experiences with this partnership.
All of the above not only include former partners, but also former horse professionals. This partnership is a dangerous one as they are so appealing, and you will see that in the talent of their narrative as I cite a portion of their post-race e-mail below. Thus we all want to believe - I did in the past when I should have walked away.
The one telling feature above all of this, is that this is how I had to find out - by seeking information through channels here at COTH. Not first hand from the MP.
Here are e-mail words from the MP shortly after the race:
"As Iguazu pulled up after the race, it was clear that his legs were bothering him; that was probably the reason he didn’t change leads. Dominguez walked him back to the unsaddling area, and we learned that he had been claimed, by Marcus Vitali, a Calder-based trainer who has just recently moved to New York. Eventually, the equine ambulance was called to give Iguazu a ride back to his new barn. Nothing life-threatening, but I do feel badly for Iguazu’s new connections, who will probably have to give him an extended break…
…We will, of course, keep an eye on Iguazu and try to be sure that, whenever his racing career is over, he finds a good home. Though he didn’t live up to the hopes that we originally had for him, he did provide us with a win picture and a lot of excitement along the way."
I immediately responded that night that I hoped they did follow up.
Through the partnership grapevine the word was spread that the horse was at Suffolk.
A few days later, the partnership announced that they unselfishly wouldn’t charge partners for their commission. SO just reminded me of that last night.
It is almost a month since that last race. Why weren’t we told what eventually happened? Because of the same tendency to gloss over the hard truths. Like “the horse needs time off to recover, the horse needs surgery, the horse is having foot/ankle/knee issues, I didn’t have the money in the account”, are translated into “the horse is growing, the horse needs a mental break, the trainer hasn’t told me what’s happening, we just got the bill”.
Only this time it was silence, when it should have been, “the horse had to be put down.”
Thanks everyone for your concern for the horse.
MP’s take credit for everything. Have you followed this year’s Triple Crown? How much do you know about the partners in Animal Kingdom? Now, how much have you seen Barry Irwin? He rang the bell to open the NASDAQ this morning, where were the partners. He was grinning on TV after the Derby, where were the partners? To read the press releases, Barry owns Animal Kingdom but he doesn’t. Were it not for the contribution (and probably a large one) of his limited partners, he’s probably have sold AK because he prefers to play with OPM.
After the Derby he griped about CD not providing fancy seats for all the partners and their pals. Did he offer up HIS box for any of them?
[QUOTE=SwtVixen;5652013]
Personally, I’d want to hear it(the truth) from the attending vet – and perhaps recorded or in writing.
Just saying.
For Laurierace: I did a confirmation – Kelsey LaFever’s licensing has been revoked for taking horses directly to kill auctions (for a specific trainer) She is facing several additional (related) very serious charges.[/QUOTE]
What happened to the trainer???
Update: Managing Partner still denying eventual result
Tonight my now ex SO (yea, this has been a great summer) let me know that MP, who loves to see himself published,
“…put a diatribe on the web site about various aspects of the claiming game. At one point, he said something like, “Iguazu won’t be running again any time soon.” I couldn’t resist—I sent back an email that basically said, Yeah, Iguazu
won’t be running any time soon, since his new connections had him put down a week after the race. I thought they might call me up for particulars or something, if they really didn’t know about it. However, the result was: zip. Didn’t hear anything, and nothing appeared on the (partnership’s) site.”
So this illustrious managing partner, who loves to see himself published, and attract followers who sing his praises, still hasn’t owned up to what happened to Iguazu - that Vitali had to put down his newly claimed horse just a few days after the race at Belmont. And the Belmont veterinarian’s office confirmed this was done, and expressed their condolences when talking with me about him.
My previous original concern with this partnership was all the constant duplicity of decisions, ALWAYS blamed on the trainer by this managing partner, while always feigning ignorance. Well, now that Iguazu was with MP’s favorite new trainer, the horse was run into the ground (believe me, no conjecture here, have enough background on this to know for a fact - this was not a “freak” accident, but one waiting to happen…) And others were just very lucky he didn’t break down before the finish. All of those races you all quote were run by a horse in trouble under the direction of MP.
I’m guessing I may run into MP soon at Saratoga. Anyone care to share some really good zingers when I do? I’d love to clearly state this mess in front of some of his newly acquired partners. :mad: Particularly as others have said - there are really good people within this partnership whom he paints his fabricated tales to… And I, a former minion implored SO, and most sadly, my sister and brother-in-law into this group. I did this to try to distract them from their daughter’s - my beautiful niece - losing an 8 year bout with cancer, leaving behind her 6 year old daughter. My sister became very involved with the horse, but dropped out once the mishandling/trainer bashing, and craziness began.
Whatever I say will have to be factual, however. I have also since been approached by others who now cite MP’s former shenanigans in breaking apart other partnership groups… He is a law professor who loves to send others spinning in litigation -although most recently trying to do it in arbitration - he’s let his license to practice become delinquent (confirmed on the State Court website). I may just ask my attorney if I can throw a drink in his face without being charged with something…
This is one of the reasons I believe horses are created - to make one forget about evil people like him. He should not be allowed one more day to gain any positive notoriety due to his association with racing. He doesn’t deserve to be on the same planet with horses. He certainly doesn’t deserve to own any more.
Dont let the facts get in the way of your fun.
http://www.cvfhorseracingpartnership.com/race-horses-thoroughbred/former-race-horses/#iguazu
[QUOTE=halo;5709885]
Dont let the facts get in the way of your fun.
http://www.cvfhorseracingpartnership.com/race-horses-thoroughbred/former-race-horses/#iguazu[/QUOTE]
What does that mean? Belmont vet’s office confirmed TO ME that he was put down. And frankly, even some of the facts on the site (which you so tactfully brought to the fore…) are not true. I’ve seen all the correspondence on this horse - was down in Florida, at the farm, etc. So you believe this “lite” version?
