…somewhere, a lawyer is banging their head on a desk repeatedly! :rolleyes:
Between this thread and the one in the Sport Horse Breeding forum about Jill Burnell, breeding something like Gerbils or Guinea Pigs looks more appealing every day! Oy!
[QUOTE=amberhill;6753308]
I have nothing to hide. Here is the report by Dr Reed of Rood and Riddle which summarizes the report and the findings:
http://amberhillponies.com/Amber_Hill_Farm/Rood_and_Riddle.html
It took me a bit to get it uploaded… this should put an end to the naysayers.[/QUOTE]
Elizabeth, honey, your ability to understand the letter is only outweighed by your ability to destroy this sport and to know how to give drugs.
There are no definitive statements in the letter. Only a reiteration of facts presented at necropsy done as a professional consideration to his colleagues.
The letter does nothing to bolster your assertions. It does nothing to hurt them either.
Reed
Regarding the NY times… here is the correspondence proving he had an agenda and did not report our statement or the truth for that matter
-----Original Message-----
From: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
To: mccrad <mccrad@nytimes.com>
Sent: Sat, Dec 29, 2012 12:31 pm
Subject: [FWD: RE: Elizabeth Mandarino]
Mr. McGraw,
I am not in the office due to the holidays and do not have a full list of the inaccuracies and omissions contained in Mr. Bogdanich’s article. Just to give you a flavor of Mr. Bogdanich’s communications with me regarding the reporting of this story, I am forwarding you a series of emails with Mr. Bogdanich. These emails followed a phone conversation wherein I attempted to give Mr. Bogdanich information regarding the lack of credibility of his “sources,” the identities of whom were obvious by the uneducated phrases and accusations he was parroting. I tried to explain that these “sources” were all defendants, potential defendants, or their counsel in a case pending in New Jersey and had underlying personal animus towards my client. I was told that he was “not interested in hearing about that stuff.” At that point, it was clear that he had an agenda other than reporting accurately on what occurred at the Devon Horse Show and the subsequent actions taken by USEF.
Most troubling is the fact that I sent to Mr. Bogdanich a prepared statement (see below) refuting Mr. Long’s assertions that my client did not cooperate with the Federation. Unless I missed something in the article, and please correct me if I am wrong, the only “fact” reported was that Ms. Mandarino had refused to comply with the Federation’s requests for documentation and information. Mr. Bogdanich had a prepared statement from me with an email from General Counsel of USEF confirming that statement and USEF’s “misunderstanding,” and he intentionally chose not to use it. I found his antagonistic manner unprofessional, and his reporting to lack integrity. It is also worth noting that one of the Jane Doe defendants in the pending litigation was posting on an unseemly anonymous gossip website as early as June 4, 2012 that someone “should get the NY Times reporter that did the racing article” to do an article on Humble. I am surprised that a publication of the NY Times’ stature would allow itself to be used to advance personal agendas, but in my opinion that is what has happened. Had the article focused correctly on the drug use in our sport, and on the people who actually have been suspended or otherwise punished (as opposed to Ms. Mandarino who has never been charged by USEF with a medication infraction despite dozens of random tests on her horses and ponies), it might have had some credibility. I will be in touch to discuss this further but would ask that the statement I prepared below be published immediately by the NY Times as a follow-up to yesterday’s story.
Thank you,
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: Elizabeth Mandarino
From: “Bogdanich, Walt” <waltbog@nytimes.com>
Date: Thu, December 06, 2012 5:47 pm
To: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
I thought you said you were not going to communicate with me further?
Since you have apparently changed your mind, please know that I remain open to discussing with you my request to interview Ms. Mandarino. Rest assured that I will be very careful in what I report.
Thank you.
Walt Bogdanich
From:XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2012 5:32 PM
To: Bogdanich, Walt
Cc: Purdy, Matt
Subject: RE: Elizabeth Mandarino
Mr. Bogdanich,
Once again you are making a knowing misstatement of fact. My client proposed to produce the necropsy and toxicology to the NY Times with restrictions on its use and dissemination, and you declined because you didn’t want to adhere to the proposed restrictions. That is the full truthful statement on what happened and is evidenced by your own email. Anything other than that statement is false and misleading.
And again, your statement that I “have decided to deny [my] client, Ms. Mandarino, the opportunity to present her side of the controversy” has no basis in fact and I have already brought that to your attention. If any of these untruths are published, we will seek any and all appropriate remedies.
Thank you,
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: Elizabeth Mandarino
From: “Bogdanich, Walt” <waltbog@nytimes.com>
Date: Thu, December 06, 2012 5:00 pm
To: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Cc: “Purdy, Matt” <purdy@nytimes.com>
XXXXXXXXXXXXX
You are incorrect. Your client DID offer me the necropsy and toxicology report. I’m sorry that you have decided to deny your client, Ms. Mandarino, the opportunity to present her side of this controversy. If you change your mind, please get in touch with me.
Thank you.
Walt Bogdanich
212 556-5881
From: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2012 3:54 PM
To: Bogdanich, Walt
Cc: Purdy, Matt
Subject: RE: Elizabeth Mandarino
Mr. Bogdanich,
My client did not agree to give you the necropsy and toxicology, and you are aware of that based on the attached email. As is shown by your own email, it was offered to you with certain restrictions on use and dissemination because it is a private document. You declined to accept it with those restrictions. You should be aware that there was a lawyer other than myself present with Mr. Mandarino during your phone call last night. You should also be aware that your statement that I am refusing to allow Ms. Mandarino to grant an interview has no basis in fact.
Based on your deceptive conduct, my client has decided that she will not communicate with you further, and I have decided that I will not communicate with you further.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: Elizabeth Mandarino
From: “Bogdanich, Walt” <waltbog@nytimes.com>
Date: Thu, December 06, 2012 3:05 pm
To: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Thank you for your email.
Please send me the full and final necropsy report, plus toxicology. If you choose not to – even though your client had already agreed to send it to me – please state your reason for denying my request. Also please state your reason for not allowing your client, Ms. Mandarino, to grant me an interview.
Please call me if you wish to discuss this further.
Thank you.
Walt Bogdanich
212 556-5881
From: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2012 2:41 PM
To: Bogdanich, Walt
Subject: Elizabeth Mandarino
Mr. Bogdanich,
In follow up to our conversation of last evening, please find the following on-the-record statement and an attached pdf of an email exchange with Sonja Keating of this morning showing the accuracy of this statement.
Ms. Mandarino provided the Interim Client Report with the findings on necropsy as well as toxicology tests conducted by New Bolton to the United States Equestrian Federation on June 19, 2012 as part of a motion made pursuant to GR617, which allows the CEO or Executive Director to dismiss a protest if it is unsubstantiated. General Counsel for the Federation acknowledged receipt of the motion in an email, with the CEO copied, on June 27, 2012. The report provided was deemed “interim” because additional toxicology testing for over 1100 different substances was ordered. That testing was performed by the Pennsylvania Department of Agriculture, and the results were received by Ms. Mandarino on June 28, 2012. I forwarded those results on June 29, 2012 to both General Counsel for the Federation and the Secretary of the Hearing Committee. On November 26, 2012, General Counsel for USEF contacted me to request a copy of the Final Client Report from New Bolton, and I immediately provided it to her. The findings in the Final Client Report were identical to those in the Interim Client Report that had previously been provided to the Federation. All of these results were also provided directly by New Bolton to the mortality insurer that provided coverage for Amber Hill Farm. I trust that the NY Times will ascertain the accuracy of all factual statements it chooses to publish regarding this tragic event.
Thank you,
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
[QUOTE=amberhill;6752953]
Ms. Pam Mahoney, Are you accusing me of posing as an attorney? You must know as an atty yourself that this is against the law. That is quite the accusation. I suggest you IMMEDIATELY retract the accusation unless you have proof to support your claim. You have been so advised.[/QUOTE]
OMG, this is getting to rival the Arabian Jumper thread in wierdness…would the mods care to look into IP addys here loking for a houseguest?
I know Pam is quaking in her Wellies after having been “advised” to cease and desist posting on a chat board. She IS a lawyer, you know.
[QUOTE=Daventry;6753339]
…somewhere, a lawyer is banging their head on a desk repeatedly! :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
I’m banging my head, and I’m not even HER lawyer :lol: :lol: :lol:
[QUOTE=poltroon;6750596]
Earlier I made a comment speculating that that list of regular drugs in combination could potentially contribute to the lung disease they saw.
It occurs to me this morning that if you were a veterinary researcher wanted to test the long term health effects of all those drugs stacked, you probably couldn’t get it past your university ethics committee.[/QUOTE]
Excellent point. Look what happens when people stack medications and the possible drug interactions between herbal supplements and prescription drugs. Do we actually think horses don’t experience the same issues when we give one drug or supplement on top of another?
It just disgusts me to see the lengths that people will go for money, fame and a blue ribbon.
[QUOTE=RAyers;6753345]
Elizabeth, honey, your ability to understand the letter is only outweighed by your ability to destroy this sport and to know how to give drugs.
There are no definitive statements in the letter. Only a reiteration of facts presented at necropsy done as a professional consideration to his colleagues.
The letter does nothing to bolster your assertions. It does nothing to hurt them either.
Reed[/QUOTE]
Dr. Reed is very well respected in his field and opines on the necropsy. By the way , I am not your honey. If you do not understand the letter, his contact information is included.
My lawyers are not banging their heads… hardly. They are reading right along. I have explained what happened to Humble. It was a tragedy but had nothing to do with illegal drugs, stacking or the NY Times article on GABA.
Um, no finding of “innocence” was ever made, USEF declined to uphold the protest due to lack of specific evidence of wrongdoing.There is a difference.
So the Pony was obviously sore and needed robaxin and may have had an upset tummy for the banamine and was injected with something else that AM also acceptable to keep it going and get it around the show ring. We may need to think a little about the environment that makes that OK as opposed to rest and watching the workload.
And I am all for approved substances used for therapeutic reasons…just not all at once on a sore animal.
I’m banging my head, and I’m not even HER lawyer :lol: :lol: :lol:[/QUOTE]
OK, I just have to say; for me, this is the COTH Funniest Quote of the Year! :lol:
:lol: Holy, this BB is certainly ending the year with a bang! :eek:
and my complaint in NJ also has much to do with the following as it all comes full circle:
By MICHELE DARGAN, Daily News Staff Writer
Sunday, August 16, 2009
For nearly two years, members of the horse show world have been roiled by a Web site that has spewed venom and gossip about young and old alike.
Now, the alleged creator of the site has had the tables turned on him, after being outed on Facebook last week as the site’s mastermind.
A longtime employee of Palm Beachers John and Marianne Castle, Matthew Trent has been named as the owner/operator of a snarky Web site called horseshowdiva.com by several members of the horse show community.
Diva took shots at everyone — from high-profile grand prix riders to children in the pony classes. Remarks on the site heated up, in particular, during the 12-week Winter Equestrian Festival in Wellington.
Horse show public-relations guru Mason Phelps posted Trent’s photo on his Facebook page last week and listed him as the person responsible for the Diva site.
Since then, dozens of people — riders, trainers, judges and others — have posted information about Trent, confirming he is the man behind the curtain.
Phelps, owner of Phelps Media and Phelpssports.com, said some of his clients were upset by malicious comments directed at them.
“Some of my clients, who did their own investigative work, exposed Matt Trent as the responsible party for the Web site,” Phelps said. “I threw it out to the public and was amazed at the amount of feedback I got that pointed the finger at Matt Trent. I have had countless phone calls, e-mails and Facebook responses from friends, fellow horse people and people I don’t even know.”
Sources confirmed that Trent administered the site and posted under the name “El Insider.” Other user names, such as Yellow Dog and Alley Cat, are purportedly associates of Trent, sources say.
Calls to Trent’s cell phone were returned by a man with a thick accent claiming to own a trucking company in New Jersey and having no knowledge of Trent. When told the caller ID showed Matthew Trent, the man said he needed to talk to the cell phone company to get the name changed.
Minutes later, a call was placed to the Castles’ barn where Trent works and the barn phone was answered by Jose, an employee who confirmed the phone number was Trent’s.
Jose then called the same phone number from his cell phone — with a reporter holding on the barn phone — and Trent answered. Trent could be heard through Jose’s cell phone saying to him, “I don’t want to talk to anybody. I have a lawyer dealing with this.”
After the Facebook outing last week, all contents on the Diva site disappeared, with a message saying the Diva was on vacation. The site reappeared Monday, minus all its previous posts.
A restructuring also occurred, which only allowed those who are approved and registered on the site to view it. As of Wednesday, the site lists 402 registered users.
Trent, 39, in the past has gone by the name Matthew Avitable.
Jennifer Reid, a horse show competitor, has lived in Wellington her entire life and has known Trent for years. She considered Trent a friend at one point and remembers when he was in the early stages of developing the Web site.
“I know with 100 percent certainty that Matt is running the site,” Reid said. “He loves gossip. He told my friend that he was “El Insider” and his close friends know it’s him. He said he wanted to be the Perez Hilton of Wellington because there is a lot of drama at the horse shows, and he wanted to become famous by creating this site.”
John Castle said Trent has worked for him on a part-time basis for many years, exercising his horses. Trent works with the horses at Castle Bay Farm, located at Sleepy Hollow Country Club in Westchester County, New York, during the summer and in Wellington during the winter.
But Castle said he doesn’t know anything about the Diva site or even that it existed.
“I have no knowledge of what he does personally,” Castle said by phone from his New York office. “When it comes to a gossip site, it’s a matter of great concern that people can go on a site and say all kinds of awful things. From my point of view, all sites should require registration.”
Castle also said he was unaware Trent was charged in 2006 with misdemeanor animal cruelty in Miami-Dade County. According to court records, Trent pleaded not guilty and entered a pre-trial diversion/deferred prosecution program. The charges were dropped after he completed the program, which is similar to probation for first-time offenders.
“Anything he has done around us has always been very professional,” Castle said. “He’s always been a perfect gentleman to us, and sensitive and kind to the animals. We wouldn’t have kept him around for five minutes if he had been anything else. We treat our animals better than our children.”
Top hunter rider/trainer Scott Stewart has been the target of nasty remarks on the Web site, but says the comments about him were not nearly as cruel as those posted about others, including one of his pony riders.
Stewart also said he believes many of the outwardly cruel remarks came from a small group of people involved in the local South Florida circuit.
“They were personal attacks, saying terrible things about a lot of people, most of them untrue,” Stewart said.
Stewart said he and others at the Winter Equestrian Festival figured out that Trent was taking unflattering photos of people and posting them on Diva.
“We all saw him taking pictures and everyone tried to get pictures of him on their cell phones,” he said. “He obviously knew that we knew who he was.”
[QUOTE=amberhill;6753373]
Dr. Reed is very well respected in his field and opines on the necropsy. By the way , I am not your honey. If you do not understand the letter, his contact information is included.[/QUOTE]
Oh, honey, you are so right, Dr. Reed ONLY comments on the necropsy and NOT in the cause of death. In other words, the letter does NOTHING to establish your claim, “It took me a bit to get it uploaded… this should put an end to the naysayers.”
As to your statement, "The necropsy states “emerging lung disease.” the letter does not back that up either. It only notes the eosinophilia which can also be an indicator of allergies and no specific “lung disease.”
Again, you have no idea what you are stating, and to me only proving more ignorance.
A relative newbie’s point of view: Expecting the USEF to police the “industry” is no different than asking Wall Street to police itself. There are very few (if any) teeth there, and, more importantly, I expect that there is really no desire or will on the part of the USEF to project that kind of authority. If they do, dues-paying members may get mad, donations may suffer, etc. Fox and the hen house…
Should trainers, owners and riders have a solid base foundation of ethics? Absolutely! And add some common sense for good measure. But when you throw money, human ego and human competition into the mix, the animals will come out on the short end 99 times out of 100.
We saw a pony collapse in its stall at 2012 Pony Finals. We did not know the pony, owner, trainer, or any details at all. We just saw him laying there and the red tape was put up and the forklift came. It is very easy to speculate…human error, intentional doping, natural causes? We don’t know and will never know, but one thing was very clear to us afterwards - there was a strong reluctance the remainder of the week to even acknowledge it had happened. That’s part of the problem too…
Now, about Humble: I have no personal knowledge at all about what happened at Devon. Nor do I know EM…I have never met or talked with her. So I will not offer any opinions about Humble or EM, other than to say I am sure Humble was a good pony who tried his hardest to do his job.
But I will offer some free advice to EM: You should stop posting on this forum or any other public forum, including FB, until your cases are resolved. You said in an earlier post that you have 9 attorneys in various states working on various judicial and administrative actions. Assuming that is true, if they have not told you to stop posting, you should really consider obtaining more competent counsel. On the other hand, if they have requested that you stop, but you continue to post anyway, you are only shooting yourself in the foot and making it harder for counsel to do their job (which ultimately means you will end up paying them more in hourly billings).
Remember this…at the end of the day, when cases are resolved and long forgotten about, the court of public opinion will have judged us too, and in many ways, this may prove to be more harsh and unforgiving than any decision issued by a judge or ALJ…
[QUOTE=amberhill;6753045]
It was an IV injection of legends which many high level trainers give 2 to 4 hours out before a major hack. [/QUOTE]
It’s LEGEND.
Continuously calling it “legends” makes you sound like a needle-happy idiot without a clue. IV injecting your horse with stuff you can’t even name properly. :mad:
What part of “Any substance given with the intent of altering performance is illegal” don’t you GET???
I managed a large, well-known show barn of around 40 horses, for 6 years, and NEVER had a horse drop dead at a show. Funny, that. Our horses also didn’t walk around with 7-8 drugs in their systems at a show.
Humble’s list of meds reads like a horse who should’ve been on stall rest. The fact that Ms. Mandarino doesn’t get THAT shows us what kind of “horsewoman” she is. Not any kind at all, as she just keeps making clearer and clearer.
Why help her out? If she wants to pick up a shovel and continue digging, let her! She has never been able to keep her mouth shut…does no one remember when she used to post on her as PonyMom something? Sorry, can’t remember her old username.
And here I was thinking we really did not have a true Trainwreck of the Year for 2012?
By now EM should have learned that the more you respond on threads, the more they stay at the top of the page…but maybe she likes that? Threatening those who disagree or post on your public facebook wall with legal action is a nice touch though.
Gosh, this thread is fun. :eek:
Maybe I’m misreading Dr. Reed’s letter because to me it’s hardly evidence that removes all doubt as to any outside action causing Humble’s death. In fact, he said (more than once,) that he found the necropsy’s conclusion “puzzling”. Specifically, he said, “I am puzzled because I would have anticipated that it would take hours not minutes for eosinophilis to be attracted to the lungs and liver as were described in this case…” He goes on to use phrase such as “it has not been my experience” and “this is a puzzlement to me”.
Based on his own words, Dr. Reed doesn’t seem to be a key witness in your defense. Actually, I read his letter as his being puzzled by the suggestion that Humble died instantly from a lung issue and that he (Dr. Reed) “would be worried” that there was some other cause…
Frankly the letter casts doubt on your ‘a diseased lung caused Humble’s death’ defense.
Oh, you mean it’s not TOTALLY PLAUSIBLE to all of us, that this apparently healthy horse just dropped dead of a completely-undiagnosed horrible lung disease? Shocked, just shocked, I tell ya. (It’d be funny if there weren’t a dead horse at the end of the story.)
Sounds to me that even in EM’s own scenario, she’s a pretty poor excuse for a “trainer”. Horse had such terrible lung disease that he literally DROPPED DEAD in the crossties, yet was well enough to be leased for Devon? Horse required enough injections to fell an elephant, yet was well enough to be entered at Devon? Really, Ms. Mandarino? You know you can keep saying it, but nobody’s dumb enough to believe it. I hope.
PONYMOM 67 is her old tag but it’s not an active username so old threads can’t be found by user name…but the Bedazzled one comes up by title and it’s a whopper of a read.
