NEWSFLASH: Horse showing is expensive

[QUOTE=Darkwave;7434702]
Building on Chunky munky’s point: In the 80s and 90s, I trained with someone who had been showing since the 1950s. Her father drove a taxi, and yet she had multiple ponies to show, and won ribbons at Madison Square Garden. Many of her friends from that time came from similar backgrounds. It was not unusual for families of working class backgrounds to have a horse or pony in the backyard.

When I was growing up in the DC area in the mid 80s to early 90s, the income point had shifted some. You would not see kids whose parents drove taxis at the horse shows. But local riding schools were still fairly common, and I knew kids whose parents were school teachers and such who showed locally. At the A shows, most of us were pretty well off - our parents were doctors, lawyers, restauranteurs, etc. But we weren’t trust fund kids.

Looking at it today, the income point has shifted more - my perception (please feel free to correct) is that the kids showing at the A’s are now the kids of successful hedge fund managers, CEOs, and trust fund families, or doctors and lawyers who have knocked it out of the park (founders of treatment centers, partners at major law firms). And you don’t see that many local riding schools for kids to start at. And you see very few kids with a pony in the back yard.

That’s why I say that I’m concerned the bottom will fall out. Where do the new kids come from? There’s not the same ground level of riding schools and ponies in back yards. And there’s only so many hedge fund managers and trust funds.

On a related note, I think the EAP program and stuff like it is fantastic. But I’m worried that as the sport gets more and more concentrated in the ranks of the financial super-elite, there will be less opportunities for kids from other backgrounds to even give the sport a try. What if there were no local riding schools, and Jacob Pope had never had a chance to get on a horse, and decided he liked swimming instead?[/QUOTE]

I am a lurker on this forum but I have to comment on this post which I think is very insightful. Darkwave talks about the pony in the backyard, and to take that idea one step further, how many people have back yards? Urban areas and planned suburban developments are becoming denser. Fewer people live in rural areas where horses are allowed, compared to thirty and forty years ago. This is not a bad thing; there are more and more really attractive and functional places to live and middle-class houses are bigger and nicer than they were decades ago; but this change in living styles and evolving demographics is really affecting the future of horse ownership and the future of horse sports. Like Darkwave asks, where do the new kids come from?

This has been going on for decades. That along with kids often preferring to spend time on the internet and high tech interests also dips into the numbers of kids who wish to work hard and get dirty and sweaty. Plus the barns having to move farther and farther out from central places of population make it less convenient for parents to get their kids to a barn. I think for that reason alone you may find parents pushing their kids toward other sports that may make family life a little easier. Few mommies are sitting at home anymore with just child chauffeuring as a job. And all this is before even considering the cost of the sport.

My BF races formula cars…we do not ever plan to be wealthy!

Interesting conversations about trailering…I’ve been considering financing my own trailer this year to try to make getting my greenie out more affordable, but only because BF will always have a truck and I won’t have to maintain that myself.

And people sometimes wonder why I get a little ticked when I don’t do well at shows and always mistake it for me being a poor sport etc. Thankfully my parents have allowed me to take a little while off from college in order to show and have bought me a new horse (I graduated last year) to show. I’m fiercely competitive at shows, and since i’m not the one footing the bill I know that I have to make it count. That’s kind of the deal that I have worked out with my parents… They don’t really care about how much a show costs because in the end if I do well, then it was worth it to them.

I think we all need to protest the prices of showing these days. I can no longer show on a regular basis because my parents disagree with the expenses of it. I think its insane that we spend $1,000+ to win a 90 cent ribbon. The sad thing is there are plenty of riders out there who have the talent to compete at the A and AA shows but they cannot afford the enteries or the horse to compete in it. I think the industry needs a check on how we spend our money and if it is truly worth the price we pay. In my opinion its not. As well as the food stands. Not all A or AA shows have great food, if they do have food and no matter the quality of it there is a big price tag added to it. I do not mind paying a lot for my equipment because it is designed to last and it will eventually pay its self off. I just wish showing was more affordable so I can enjoy the show grounds and being in the show ring again:( and unfortunately where I live there is only one local show series and they frown upon you if you have been competing at the A or AA level for your whole life because they feel it’s unfair for the other riders who can only afford local shows.

[QUOTE=MonterStables;7438393]
And people sometimes wonder why I get a little ticked when I don’t do well at shows and always mistake it for me being a poor sport etc. Thankfully my parents have allowed me to take a little while off from college in order to show and have bought me a new horse (I graduated last year) to show. I’m fiercely competitive at shows, and since i’m not the one footing the bill I know that I have to make it count. That’s kind of the deal that I have worked out with my parents… They don’t really care about how much a show costs because in the end if I do well, then it was worth it to them.[/QUOTE]

:eek: What happens when you don’t “do well” and it is then NOT “worth it”, to them? :confused:

[QUOTE=chomp;7438576]
I think we all need to protest the prices of showing these days.[/QUOTE]

But…who do we protest to? I sympathize with your emotion, but I don’t really believe that there is some power on high that decided to make showing more expensive (and I don’t believe the mileage rule makes that much of a difference).

And there’s no group that really wants most of us priced out - the more of us that show, the better for all. Heck, programs like the EAP point towards an attempt at inclusiveness. And many BNTs came from less than uber-wealthy backgrounds themselves, and are sympathetic for those in similar situations.

I see parallels between the horse show industry and the health care industry. In both, costs are very high, and prohibitive for many. In each, we have a clear scapegoat (the horse shows and the insurers), but in their turn, each is simply trying to make a profit in a difficult industry.

I honestly don’t know if it’s fixable. It may simply be that at some point, our sport will cease to be viable.

[QUOTE=chomp;7438576]
I think we all need to protest the prices of showing these days. I can no longer show on a regular basis because my parents disagree with the expenses of it. I think its insane that we spend $1,000+ to win a 90 cent ribbon. The sad thing is there are plenty of riders out there who have the talent to compete at the A and AA shows but they cannot afford the enteries or the horse to compete in it. I think the industry needs a check on how we spend our money and if it is truly worth the price we pay. In my opinion its not. As well as the food stands. Not all A or AA shows have great food, if they do have food and no matter the quality of it there is a big price tag added to it. I do not mind paying a lot for my equipment because it is designed to last and it will eventually pay its self off. I just wish showing was more affordable so I can enjoy the show grounds and being in the show ring again:( and unfortunately where I live there is only one local show series and they frown upon you if you have been competing at the A or AA level for your whole life because they feel it’s unfair for the other riders who can only afford local shows.[/QUOTE]

That’s like saying that the makers of luxury cars should make them more affordable so anybody who wants one can drive one.

We participate in a luxury sport. There is no obligation on the part of those who run the shows to make it more affordable for those of us who can’t afford to play.

They will lower the prices as soon as the business model shows that it’s a good idea to do so. In the meantime, some who show gain more enjoyment from the fact that it is NOT a game for “Everyman”.

If your perceived ROI for a horse show is only a $0.90 ribbon, why do you compete?

Um, ribbons are $2 to $6 each, more for tri colors, fancy rosettes and custom lettering.

Just sayin…

IEA and a good number of the college programs are good places for those who are willing, even if they do not own a horse. Not everybody has to go top rated H/J showing to be around horses.

There are also other disciplines/breed shows that are much more reasonably priced for both a decent horse and the shows. If you really love horses and will do anything to be around them they are quite enjoyable. Just like auto racing, there are many levels available that don’t require multiple 6 figure cars and boat lovers don’t need a yacht to be happy.

Couple of friends recently left the AA H/J ranks for Dressage and both they and their wallets love it. Another went to NRHA/NRCHA and AQHA, APHA breed shows-they run 2 horses for less then AA rated H/J with one horse. Can win real money too.

[QUOTE=chomp;7438576]
As well as the food stands. Not all A or AA shows have great food, if they do have food and no matter the quality of it there is a big price tag added to it.[/QUOTE]

I highlighted this section to show how if you really want to show you can make it work.

So get up a little early and pack a lunch and maybe breakfast and dinner also while you are in the kitchen. If the food is too expensive then do something about it yourself instead of complaining. There are plenty of people who bring their own food because of the expense and lack of quality.

That requires planning and preparation and I realize those are not popular qualities these days. But if you really want to show figure out a way. It sounds like you might not enjoy it since you reference the $.90 ribbon as the reward…

At our hunt, we pay $10 per ribbon but they are really lovely big ribbons. Oh and the entry fee for hunter paces is only $40! I’m telling you people, quit showing and join your local hunt. Way more fun and way less $$$$!

[QUOTE=2bayboys;7439246]
We participate in a luxury sport. There is no obligation on the part of those who run the shows to make it more affordable for those of us who can’t afford to play.[/QUOTE]

I agree 1M% with this statement.

Does your hunt also have prize money? Probably not.

[QUOTE=Darkwave;7439216]
But…who do we protest to? …

I honestly don’t know if it’s fixable. It may simply be that at some point, our sport will cease to be viable.[/QUOTE]

Well, you don’t feed the Big Industry that you don’t like; you do spend your money on the shows and trainers that do look “sustainable” and useful to you and your brand of horsing.

I don’t think the sport must become inviable unless we have crossed some point of “no return” in which we have made the Big Shows and the business of training/teaching for them attainable only for billionaires.

There are plenty of people who are worth even less than $1M itching to take their horses to a competition and spend some money. IMO, things began to go to crap in the 1990s with the Mileage Rule. The HITS franchise didn’t help. Or maybe it was helped by the mileage rule? Or did Tom Struzzieri help create that, all big, fat, lobbyist style?

In any case, the “black market” of local show circuits and trainers and owners/riders/families I have encountered have been wonderful. I spend my money and volunteer time there. I think there’s hope if people vote with their wallet and their feet for a saner, gentler, more inclusive kind of horse showing.

Cheapest Hodges Badge ribbon this year is $1.30 if you are buying more than 1000. That’s a 4" rosette with one ruffle and 9" streamers. You see the big shows giving these ribbons out. I give them out as well, but have to pay $2+ for each because I’m only buying about 150, if I’m lucky. Our specialty ribbons are about $7 each (our classes only cost $8). Our year end hi points were $15, because we only buy two and we have to pay set up charges for any ribbons under 25 in count.

I always laugh when someone talks about $0.30 or $0.90 cent ribbons.

[QUOTE=chomp;7438576]
I think we all need to protest the prices of showing these days.[/QUOTE]

I’m envisioning everyone going all “Network” on show management! :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Ao3FuGEGcU8

Nickledian, obviously it is good times for big box show managers these days, but as I said back many pages ago, just because things are awesome today, does not mean that there are not cracks in the economic foundation. Because one thing everyone (including USHJA) recognizes, is that you grow or die. And I do not believe USHJA membership or horse shows are a growth industry lately. It may look like numbers are up at WEF, but I think that is only in comparison to the recent market crash data. The numbers seem smaller than back in 2000. Now maybe that is because there are more show options and people can go someplace other than HITS or WEF, or maybe it is because the pool is smaller.

And like both darkwave and myself pointed out, if you are in the 5% (or better) and feel like this sport is financially out of your reach, that’s probably not a healthy economic indicator, or at least i haven’t met anyone willing to argue that its a good thing.

[QUOTE=Darkwave;7439216]

I see parallels between the horse show industry and the health care industry. In both, costs are very high, and prohibitive for many. In each, we have a clear scapegoat (the horse shows and the insurers), but in their turn, each is simply trying to make a profit in a difficult industry.[/QUOTE]

Sorry if I wasn’t clear - my point was that insurers are NOT the problem in healthcare - as you note, the issue spreads across the board (I won’t use “fault” because I’m not sure that’s appropriate). People tend to place all the blame on the insurers, but they’re not the cause, just another participant. I see parallels to the horse show industry, where there’s a tendency to blame it all on the horse show management - I don’t think that blame is appropriate. Heck, as your ribbon comment illustrates, every aspect of horse show management down to the ribbons is more expensive than we think it is.

[QUOTE=PNWjumper;7428348]
What’s frustrating is seeing the accessibility and affordability of horseshows in Europe and particularly the really great track for young horses. I get that it’s an entirely different ball game over here for a whole lot of reasons, but I struggle to understand why we keep supporting the model of the big for-profit shows. I’m guilty of it too, but I’ve hit my breaking point this year and I doubt I’ll be taking mine to many shows this year.

I started a thread several years ago about some of the ridiculous charges and my complaints from then still stand. $300 for a 10x10 tent stall for 5 days, not including shavings, is insane!

And I want to add that to a certain extent I don’t mind having to pay big dollars when I’m showing in big money classes on my upper level horse, but to pay those same dollars with no chance of winning money on my young horses is a tough pill to swallow. It would be nice for the shows to act like they cared about the sport as a whole and the development of horses and riders. I have a lot of trainer friends who would bring their young jumpers to shows they’re already at if the shows would offer cheap stalls for non-showing horses or price breaks for the young jumper entries. And seriously the fees on top of fees on top of fees are getting old. I didn’t mind paying a nominating fee to ride in a ring when it meant you could add and scratch for free, but then they added back the charges to add and scratch, and now why am I paying a nominating fee??? Those are the things that are really frustrating.

I don’t know what the answers are (or if there are any at all), but I’ve watched a lot of friends retire from the show world in the last 4 or 5 years. I’m an independent ammy and go to shows by myself. I used to have a big group of women I would meet up with who also went to shows by themselves. I’m the only one left who’s still chugging along, and I think it’s a shame that a large group of good riders with good horses who want to show won’t or can’t or don’t.[/QUOTE]

This times 2. I have only young horses now so chose other avenues to get experience on them. The Citrus Series that James Lala is hosting has potential. Fingers crossed it does well as the show yesterday was very small but well run and very, very, accommodating.

I’d be plenty happy to forego ribbons entirely if that helped reduce fees.

[QUOTE=IPEsq;7439951]
I’d be plenty happy to forego ribbons entirely if that helped reduce fees.[/QUOTE]

Not me. Give me ribbon or give me death!