Hey thanks for the legal lesson I don’t give a crap about…!
I’m pretty sure that FordTraktor just provided a quick, thoughtful clarification, and I’m the one who thinks your vision of reclaiming clients via legal action is…misguided. So maybe you meant to cyber-snark at me. :yes:
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Non-compete clauses have to state a specific geographic area (or market if it is a TV station or the like) and a specific time period in my state in order for someone to recover any damages or prevent someone from working for “the competition.” My father and his business partner had a non-compete clause for their management. And all the reporters in Atlanta at the TV stations had them of course, they could quit, but then they had to wait a year to get on the air on a competitor’s station.
So if you have a corp. or partnership or employee status, the clause should state the the person agrees to not compete with you for a one year period within, say, a hundred mile radius of your stable. If you make the clause for say 10 yrs or specify any where in the USA, the courts aren’t going to enforce it. The remedy is usually that the person is not allowed to compete, but sometimes damages can be recovered.
People who work for your and then leave and take clients to another location outside of the agreed upon area are not violating the agreement.
I would suggest you include a non-disparagement clause. Although as many have mentioned, these are generally not enforced by everyday employers who do not have trade secrets to protect, it can’t hurt to throw one in there. They generally prohibit the parties from speaking badly about each other in public venues. In reality, also probably not enforceable in the sense that it’s expensive and hard to prove, but if you are going to try to get employees to sign a non-compete, I would put a non-disparagement clause in as well.
[QUOTE=Pirateer;4202495]
Hey thanks for the legal lesson I don’t give a crap about…![/QUOTE]
Well, bless your heart… :lol:
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i would never marry a man who wanted a pre-nup nor would i work under a non-compete. 
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[QUOTE=Pirateer;4202495]
Hey thanks for the legal lesson I don’t give a crap about…![/QUOTE]
Wow. B*&^h much?
Maybe you should just say thank you for giving you information that you obviously didn’t know.
A terminology lesson for something that isn’t even applicable to me? Since I was merely passing along a tidbit?
Methinks I’m not the one with my panties in a wad.
And since you guys are making a point of telling me I’m wrong…
To Press Charges:
bring a charge against someone or something
to file a complaint against someone or a group; to begin a legal process against someone or a group. (A charge can also be charges even if only one charge is involved.) We brought a charge against the town council. Sam brought charges against Jeff.
[QUOTE=Prima Donna;4201560]
Each state has applicable case law setting out what the courts have found to be reasonable. [/QUOTE]
There’s the key. Hard to give specific advice without knowing the state. Although, agree with whoever said that they are expensive to enforce – that might be the one thing that doesn’t change from state to state! 
As a client
I am neither your golden goose nor your sitting duck. I’ll choose my own trainer, thanks, and I won’t think much one who tries to limit my choices simply by making it difficult to check out the competition. If you want my business, earn that by being the best at what you do, not by excluding competitors.
Really, we clients are unruly anyway. An agreement that tries to set up some sort of monopoly that dictates two pros’ behavior but also that of many consumers may not be worth the paper it’s printed on… unless you spend lots and lots to enforce it. And I, the holder of the purse you were chasing, might not comply in the end anyway!
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[QUOTE=mvp;4202720]
I am neither your golden goose nor your sitting duck. I’ll choose my own trainer, thanks, and I won’t think much one who tries to limit my choices simply by making it difficult to check out the competition. If you want my business, earn that by being the best at what you do, not by excluding competitors.
Really, we clients are unruly anyway. An agreement that tries to set up some sort of monopoly that dictates two pros’ behavior but also that of many consumers may not be worth the paper it’s printed on… unless you spend lots and lots to enforce it. And I, the holder of the purse you were chasing, might not comply in the end anyway![/QUOTE]
Well AMEN to that! You hit the nail on the head when you used the word “professional”. NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING, sounds very PROFESSIONAL about non-compete agreements to me.
I too, as a client, am no idiot and do not need for some “trainer” with a Super Ego to try to dictate, whether overtly or directly who I will or will not do business with. They can go bugger off.:mad:
[QUOTE=Strictly Classical;4202733]
Well AMEN to that! You hit the nail on the head when you used the word “professional”. NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING, sounds very PROFESSIONAL about non-compete agreements to me.
I too, as a client, am no idiot and do not need for some “trainer” with a Super Ego to try to dictate, whether overtly or directly who I will or will not do business with. They can go bugger off.:mad:[/QUOTE]
That is largely why these things aren’t worth the paper they are printed on. Determining if client made the decision to leave on their own vs being hustled out by the ex-assistant trainer? Fine line.
[QUOTE=Strictly Classical;4202202]
If a business is ethically and legitimately run, then why would it bother you if another instructor set up shop close by? The horse community is small. If you treat clients fairly, are honest, forthright, and competent then you should have no worries. Frankly, if I were in your shoes, and someone in my employ wished to leave I would simply bid them farewell on as positive a term(s) as I could manage. Then I would continue to run my business as usual. Clients come and go for all sorts of reason. I wouldn’t worry about clients leaving. If I were in their shoes, and I wanted to follow the trainer to another barn, 20 miles wouldn’t stop me. The overall end result would be the same.
Don’t sweat it - life is too short. When clients aren’t happy and wish to leave, bid them farewell. Makes life simpler for you actually. I would only want happy, positive relations to do business with.
I think non-compete agreements casts the originating party in a suspect, if not down-right negative light. It makes the originator look fearful and lacking in self-confidence. Sorry - not trying to be harsh - its simply my POV.[/QUOTE]
Well put. My POV too!!
[QUOTE=Pirateer;4202495]
Hey thanks for the legal lesson I don’t give a crap about…![/QUOTE]
You’re welcome, honey.
Whew! Lots of opinions here, some very strong too! But that’s good - I asked for comments, thoughts, etc.!
Thank you everyone for your responses - you have given “food for thought”.
However, I did just want to make one quick comment to those clients who posted. Generalizing here, but my take on many of your posts was that you felt that the employer who has a non-compete agreement would somehow be holding you captive or not respecting your right to have the trainer you wish. For me, that would not be the intent of such an agreement.
Lets say a trainer/owner takes in another trainer on staff. That second trainer, lets say a “jr. trainer” for the arguement, learns the ropes of the business from the trainer/owner who is well established. Clients were at the facility when jr. trainer came aboard. Clients were happy prior to jr. trainers arrival. Clients are happy with jr. trainer at the farm. After a couple years, jr. trainer decides to go off on his/her own. That, in and of itself, I understand and don’t have a problem with. Jr. trainer has been working with clients at trainer/owners farm. Jr. trainer needs clients to start his/her own business. Unfortunately, truth and honesty too often become skewed when jr. trainer sees the opportunity to have these clients move to his/her new business. While I totally agree that the client leaves by his own choice, nobody actually “takes” a client anywhere. However, I have known clients over the years who have left (for a variety of reasons), only to come back three to five years later saying how wrong they were because they later found out what they believed was not actually true.
Clients come and go. They do that for a variety of reasons. That is the nature of business, but especially the horse business! I know that. I inquired about the non-compete argreement just trying to see if there was a way to help protect myself from my own employees doing damage.
Clients come and go. They do that for a variety of reasons. That is the nature of business, but especially the horse business! I know that. I inquired about the non-compete argreement just trying to see if there was a way to help protect myself from my own employees doing damage.[/QUOTE]
I see the point you are trying to make. I really do. However, I would say this to you: be a good honest business person and a true horsewoman. Openly continue to develop your own education and skills. When it is apparent to others that you have the very BEST INTERESTS of your horses and clients at hear, that you are honest and fair in all your dealings - YOU WILL HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT! Truly, you will have the best basis any business could for growth and development.
That is a piece of advice that was given to me by an Olympian. Honestly, that is the truth. I will refrain from saying who it was, because that really doesn’t matter. I was attending a clinic with this rider last fall, During the lunch break we were talking about how to make it in a very competitive horse business. He said to me basically the same thing I have just shared with you. He even said that no matter what level you are at - be it local trainer or international competitor - the philosophy is the same. When people see that you are honest, trustworthy, competent, respectful, and kind - your business will grow by leaps and bounds - largely due to the best marketing tool around: word of mouth from others in the horse world. When you think about, there is so much TRUTH in this man’s wise, wise words.
I understand your concerns. IMO, the best thing you can do to prevent what you worry about is to let them go graciously and tell them they will be welcome back in the future if they wish, be friendly and maintain good relations when you see them out and about, and then welcome them back with open arms when they realize they made a mistake.
Sometimes hard to do, but we have had great success with returns using this plan. Probably half the horses on our farm left for greener or cheaper pastures at some point, but are now back with us and glad to be here.
IMO, it’s a waste of your time and effort. Even if your state allows them, they are typically only limited to 1 year.
StrictlyClassical and FordTraktor and others have given you very solid sound advice, heed it.
Legal…yes…enforceable…maybe and pricey. There are judges who think that taking the right to compete away violates the basics for a capitalistic system. Good Luck with trying to “win” and if you “win” what do you get??? Youre sure are not going to get their customers. Keep your own with good service and just let the system work.
Good service, good skills, hard work will give both businesses enough business for everyone.
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It’s not so much that I would feel “captive” as that I would question your judgement for trying to include a noncompete clause to solve this problem. Partly because you’d be setting yourself up to be even worse off than you were before. In the above scenario, if you take legal action against the jr. trainer, what’s the good outcome there? You get damages? Jr. trainer is forced out of business? That would make you look…terrible. And I suspect the clients aren’t coming back, nor are they telling their friends.
What I’m saying is that if this is the problem:
However, I have known clients over the years who have left (for a variety of reasons), only to come back three to five years later saying how wrong they were because they later found out what they believed was not actually true.
and you think you can solve it with a noncompete clause, I don’t want to be in that barn. If your former employee is badmouthing you and your clients believe it without checking with you, trying to contractually restrict jr. trainer’s speech is not the answer.
