Non official show photographer question

[IvyHall]

I’m pretty sure there is nothing that I can do about this but I thought I’d bring this up just in case.

I recently showed my horse at a large event and at the end of the show I was approached by a photographer who told me that she had taken photos of my horse and was hoping to send (sell) them to connections in Europe and that her connections would run a story on him. She asked for my email address and said she would be in touch.

Not long after the show she contacted me and asked if she could pass along some other photos I had of him. I said yes (after I got approval from that photographer). She also sent me a link to the photos of my guy that she had sent to the european connection. HOLY MOLY her images were absolutely gorgeous. Far and away the best pictures ever taken of my horse.

I asked to buy them and she said she could not sell them to me (a competitor) because she was not the official photographer at the event.

So am I just up a creek? Is there any way for me to get my hands on these images using “proper” methods? I sent her another email inquiring as to whether or not I could have a family member buy the photos and she never responded. I don’t want to continue to bother her about this if there is nothing to be done.

Thank you!

[vxf111]

Was there an official photographer at this same show? Did the show have an exclusive policy allowing him/her to take and sell photos?

[IvyHall]

Yes, there was an official photographer. And I am assuming from this other photographer’s response to my inquiry regarding purchasing pictures that he did have an exclusive policy but I don’t know. How could I go about finding the answer and would it change anything ?

Thanks!

[wsmoak]

She’s doing the right thing, according to the Acceptable Behavior Standards for photographers.

You can read numerous other threads where official show photographers bemoan the lack of paying customers and the other photographers who show up and sell photos, etc., etc.

Sounds like she sold the photos to the people doing the article, and even sent some business along to the other photographers.

Why not try to get a copy of the article? It’s even possible that she sold the rights to the publication, in which case you might be able to buy the photo from them. Might be a language barrier involved though.

One other thing you might try is placing an order with the official show photographer, and then asking that photographer for “permission” to buy from the other one. Perhaps if the official photographer says it’s okay, she will sell you the photos.

[vxf111]

[QUOTE=IvyHall;7630369]
Yes, there was an official photographer. And I am assuming from this other photographer’s response to my inquiry regarding purchasing pictures that he did have an exclusive policy but I don’t know. How could I go about finding the answer and would it change anything ?

Thanks![/QUOTE]

You could contact the show.

[IvyHall]

I figured I was up a creek

I do not know if the Europeans have bought the photos or that they have written an article.

I did spend $$$$ with the official photographer so asking their permission to purchase these other images may be an option.

Thank you for your help!

And for the record the additional pictures I got for her were free of charge bc they weren’t taken by a “professional” photographer and had been given to me to use as I wished. That photographer just asked for a photo credit if they were used.

[IvyHall]

And I imagine this is a bit of a stupid question, but why wouldn’t this photographer just give me the images ( I tied to buy them and I can’t)?

She is presumably/hopefully going to make money off my horse and I by selling the images (with his story) Meanwhile my horse and his story have been published several times already and I have not, nor did I expect to see a dime.

[vxf111]

I think she probably COULD give you the images. Even if the official photographer has the exclusive right, it’s almost certainly the exclusive right to SELL photos of the event. Not to take them. Maybe she is just afraid if she gives them to you, the official photographer will be upset.

The only way to get to the bottom of this is to find out from the show what the ACTUAL arrangement was with the official photographer and go from there. If the answer is that he did not have an exclusive arrangement, then the other photogtapher can sell you the photos (though she may not want to for fear of angering the official photographer). If it was an exclusive arrangement, find out what the official photographer got the official rights to do. If it was to sell the photos, then the other photographer can give you the photos if she’s willing.

The official photographer may waive whatever rights he has in light of you already buying lots (all?) of his photos but you won’t know if you don’t ask.

[IvyHall]

Thank you for your thorough answer vxf111! I’ll get working on this later today.

This horse is very special to me and I know that someday the only thing I’ll have left of him are my memories and lots of beautiful pictures.

[IvyHall]

I emailed the official photographer who had the exclusive rights to sell photos and asked if I could have permission to buy the pictures from the other photographer. And I got back a very kind and clear response, which I really appreciated, but as we all suspected the answer was no.

I totally understand, but I’m still a bit heartbroken.

[Polydor]

Maybe ask the photographer(that has the pics you want) for the magazine name and contact info so that you could at least buy a copy of the magazine or buy the pics from the magazine?

P.

[BoomerButt]

Is the photographer local? Why not see if she would be willing to come out and take pictures of your horse for you?

[Zuri]

The unofficial photographer could be gracious and just send you the photos. Along with the story. She is benefitting from you and your horse, the least she could do would be to send you (gift) copies of the pics. Hope you get them.

[MyGiantPony]

[QUOTE=Zuri;7636620]
The unofficial photographer could be gracious and just send you the photos. Along with the story. She is benefitting from you and your horse, the least she could do would be to send you (gift) copies of the pics. Hope you get them.[/QUOTE]
Exactly what I was going to say.

[IvyHall]

So here is the brief back story. I bought an OTTB a few years ago just to have a horse. He turned out to be a great jumper and I showed him quite a bit last year and he qualified for one of the “biggest” hunter/jumper shows on the east coast this year.

He was also diagnosed with cancer earlier this year

It has been a very bumpy road to say the least.

The media has been interested in his story and while media attention is something I always imagined I would avoid I am happy to get his story out there in the hopes that we could help other horses and owners.

So, this other photographer approached me at the show and said she had pictures and that she would send them to me (at the time I was unaware of the rules regarding official and unofficial photographers). Well, obviously that didn’t happen. I however was happy to go out of my way and answered her questions via email and sent her the additional personal photographs of mine that she requested.

I am disappointed I don’t have the photos, for many reason.

Like I said before I know that someday the only things I’ll have left of my very special boy are my wonderful memories and his beautiful photographs.

Sadly, unless his story gets picked up in Europe and is printed I doubt I’ll be able to get my hands on them.

Oh well at least I tried!
Thanks again to all for the help!

[vxf111]

Now I know who you are (well, internet “know”) and at least 1 photog (and maybe the other) and I am sort of aghasted that, under the circumstances, they can’t work it out!?!

I read the New Bolton article about your horse. Very inspiring!

[IvyHall]

Thanks again for your help vxf111!

I’m guessing there is more than I know going on with what I assume is a complicated relationship between official and non official photographers.

I’m bummed, but I understand photographers not wanting to tread on others’ turf.

[vxf111]

If the non-official photog is the one I am thinking of, I get why the official photographer is a little annoyed. She is clearly a pro, knows the rules, will enforce them when SHE has exclusive rights to an event-- and yet year after year takes photos at Devon. I dunno… what’s UP with her. Why she won’t give them to you for free… when she really knows she shouldn’t have been taking them and splashing them all over her website-- is a mystery I don’t understand.

[IvyHall]

If I’m understanding correctly a non official photog can shoot an event as long they don’t sell pics to the competitors???

Anyway, I guess anyone who reads their chronicle cover to cover and figure out who I am;)

And while this doesn’t have much to do with the issue at hand (although it does help to explain whyI would really want to own these pictures)…… I have been, at times, someone who has struggled in life, especially when it came to sound decision making. I don’t have a ton to be proud of in my past but I have been working on myself and hope that I am a better person. One of the few things I am VERY proud of is this horse and the things we have accomplished. But, the pictures in question do not belong to me, I have no right to them so I guess its time for me to move on!

[vxf111]

[QUOTE=IvyHall;7637382]
If I’m understanding correctly a non official photog can shoot an event as long they don’t sell pics to the competitors???

Anyway, I guess anyone who reads their chronicle cover to cover and figure out who I am;)

And while this doesn’t have much to do with the issue at hand (although it does help to explain whyI would really want to own these pictures)…… I have been, at times, someone who has struggled in life, especially when it came to sound decision making. I don’t have a ton to be proud of in my past but I have been working on myself and hope that I am a better person. One of the few things I am VERY proud of is this horse and the things we have accomplished. But, the pictures in question do not belong to me, I have no right to them so I guess its time for me to move on![/QUOTE]

The official photographers at Devon have exclusive commercial use. Other people may tale pleasures for non-commercial use (i.e. not to SELL but for themselves). The other photog, if it is the one I am thinking of, knows this full well and yet takes photos and puts them all up on her website and acts like she has the right to use/market/sell them. I don’t know if she actually sells them, but given that she’s a pro-- the way she holds herself out and puts the photos on her website seems at minimum sketchy too me. Especially because she will berate other photographers who she feels tread too closely on her exclusive rights at shows.