Now Or Never and his sons?

[Donella]

especially Wilton and Uccello?

We had a Wilton in for training/sales and he is a very big moving horse with an absolutely huge canter. Good hind leg, really round moving. A very compact type as well. Is this typical of this sire line? He sold to a very competitive dressage stable in Florida.The breeder said that the dam of this horse was more of a hunter type mover. That got me interested in Wilton and then I was looking at Uccello and I really like his type.

I love the newly licensed Viscount by Valentino :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP43mIT76ig
and he jumps beautifully too it seems.

So, what does this sire line bring? Any comments?

[bluemoonfarms]

I will be able to tell you about Valentino first hand in the Spring. My maiden Catoki/Contender/Sao Paulo mare is in foal to Valentino. Valentino frozen is very good. I used one dose on the maiden mare.

Forgot to add http://landgestuetcelle.de/cms/front_content.php?client=1&lang=2&idcat=16&idart=165

Check out his breeding values on the bottom of page. He adds a lot!

[alexandra]

I have always loved Valentino from the first time I saw him - age three. He is very elastic and has swing. Very good movement for a jumping horse. Would consider him as a stallion I would choose on a versatile mare. Friends of mine consider him as a nice horse but none that contributes to top class jumper breeding. I do not know - I am no jumper breeder. He himself is competing consistantly well.
Friends of mine have a mare that can reall jump. She is Valentino - Cashmann. She does not look like Valentino though. She is longlegged and of very good frame. She has a halfsister competing on ** Level internationally (Am not sure how high that is). She is temperament wise on the hotter side. I would say that is from Cashman.
I saw Ucello as a young horse and remember being impressed by an elastic nice moving stallion with swing. We actually went to the stallion show to see Celle’s at that time new Sandro Hit - Pik Bube. And were really impressed by this guy instead. I have not seen offspring though, but as said I am no jumper breeder , so that is no negative thing, as I do not really go out and search for certain offsrping to get an opinion…

[Donella]

Bluemoon, make sure to post pics when it is born! I looked into Catoki as well and he looks like an interesting (and beautiful) stallion. Do you have pics of your mare?

Alexandra , thank you for that info. I am not a jumper breeder either but am interested in finding a good jumper bred stallion that will bring more roundness to the front end and a bigger canter to one of my dressage mares. I just don’t want to loose swing and I don’t want a stallion with a slow hind leg…so this is good to hear that both stallions use their bodies well.

[alexandra]

http://youtu.be/J5iFgpsLO9s

a little bit of jogging trot at the end:
http://youtu.be/wxvixFKrayU

http://youtu.be/IdVQBwO2apA

[bluemoonfarms]

<table style=“width:194px;”><tr><td align=“center” style=“height:194px;background:url(https://picasaweb.google.com/s/c/transparent_album_background.gif) no-repeat left”><a href=“https://picasaweb.google.com/112977308421029463039/Cobrah?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCPml0bqa6veA9QE&feat=embedwebsite”><img src=“https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-6vaxt84wPOU/UB1QxeGUdWE/AAAAAAAAASA/WUvv9ICCAOQ/s160-c/Cobrah.jpg” width=“160” height=“160” style=“margin:1px 0 0 4px;”></a></td></tr><tr><td style=“text-align:center;font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:11px”><a href=“https://picasaweb.google.com/112977308421029463039/Cobrah?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCPml0bqa6veA9QE&feat=embedwebsite” style=“color:#4D4D4D;font-weight:bold;text-decoration:none;”>Cobrah</a></td></tr></table>

Hopefully this link will work. Here are a couple of pics of Cobrah Catoki/Contender/Sao Paulo in foal to Valentino. If this link does not work please let me know and i will try to fix it. Thank you.

[bluemoonfarms]

Here is a link to some pics of Cobrah. Cobrah, Catoki/Contender/Sao Paulo, is currently 3 yrs old and in foal to Valentino.

https://picasaweb.google.com/112977308421029463039/Cobrah?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCPml0bqa6veA9QE&feat=directlink

If this link does work please let me know and if you click on the thumbnails the pics will enlarge. Thank you…

[houserabbitz]

Uccello is gorgeous, and looks very tall!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EF4GUwx6YWY

[showjumpers66]

One of my favorite topics!!!

There is one right here in the US, Vallado (now being shown as Praise). There are several standing for the Hanoverian Verband from the same mother line / breeder. Most are from Saros xx or Belisar (Saros xx son) mothers. We love all our Vallado offspring … they are incredibly rideable and talented. Vallado’s son, Validation was exported to Germany for competition a couple of months ago. He has been doing really well winning several 5 year old young jumper classes including one on Friday with a score of 9.0. He has also been approved by the Hanoverian Verband. http://service.vit.de/pferd_praesentation/Front?seite=DetailVb31Hvp&L=0&verband=31&aktion=FachobjektAnzeigen&sshw=47e36a9bd442bb82ad8caa32b612b071&keyPFID=51OP00907&kontext=Pferd&anzeigezweck=Hengstverteilungsplan

I am looking forward to seeing how the Valentino offspring do in the future, in particular Viscount. http://service.vit.de/pferd_praesentation/Front?seite=DetailVb31Hvp&L=0&verband=31&aktion=FachobjektAnzeigen&sshw=b23bca4c13d35267e569b8fef597fb46&keyPFID=31QC01509&kontext=Pferd&anzeigezweck=Hengstverteilungsplan

Here are the ones that I know of:

Toronto (Now or Never M / Belisar)
Vallado (Now or Never M / Saros xx)
Validation S (Vallado / Lansing)
Valentino (Now or Never M / Belisar)
Viscount (Valentino / Acorado)
Van Helsing (Valentino / Stakkato)
Uccello (Now or Never M / Saros xx)
Victorio (Uccello / Graf Top)

There were a few others that were approved, but disappeared (probably were gelded and/or went to sport).

Interesting to note that the Dutch haven’t approved several of these stallions yet they have gone on to be very successful for breeding at the Hanoverian Verband. When I spoke to them about presenting Vallado, I was told that the pedigree was not interesting for them. Perfect example of needing different stallions for different mare bases.

[Donella]

Bluemoon, your filly is lovely

Showjumper, how do yours move? Would you consider them good movers from a dressage perspective?

I also really like Viscount, he moves beautifully and looks gorgeous! (obviously the jump is nice too):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP43mIT76ig

I hope he is offered frozen next year!!

[showjumpers66]

With the right mare, you should get gaits good enough for upper level dressage. Typically, the walk and canter are very good. Ours have all been bred for the jumper ring and are from Holsteiner mothers, so as you can see not really bred with dressage in mind. :winkgrin:
Vallado / Lansing / Capitol I / Sacramento Song xx
Vallado / Calido I / Alcatraz / Caletto II
Vallado / Latano II / Montanus / Fantus
Vallado / Askari / Lord / Masetto

Next year, we are using Vallado frozen with our Con Caletto / Ramiro / Ahorn Z mare. Very excited about this breeding!!

Here are some videos -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQugqIIEOXI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVxN0seFw5Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYlHF0L_5c0

We only have one foal on the ground from Validation and he is from the Calido I / Alcatraz / Caletto II mare. He is really, really special. http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=388747554500931&set=a.388747531167600.82521.163360860372936&type=3&theater

I can’t say enough about this bloodline and it such a shame that it is being overlooked. The four Vallado foals we bred have all been hands down keepers.

[sixpoundfarm]

This is a Vallado / Goodtimes / Calvados / Ramiro gelding that I bred, shown at 3yrs. He is currently starting his career under saddle in the Baby Green Hunters.

http://youtu.be/OvYFjembPsM

I really like the versatility in the line, and agree the Viscount stallion is really cool too.

[bluemoonfarms]

[QUOTE=showjumpers66;6479753]
With the right mare, you should get gaits good enough for upper level dressage. Typically, the walk and canter are very good. Ours have all been bred for the jumper ring .[/QUOTE]

The pic of my Catoki mare (in foal to Valentino) was taken at a local Dressage Schooling Show. She did walk/trot classes and did not miss a step. Great mind. The judge really liked her and felt she has very good talent for Dressage. This mare is very good in the jumping Shute and her foal will show what type of Broodmare she is in the Spring. It will be very interesting to see how the Valentino foal turns out.

[PDS_spain]

I have seen, a little bit late, that you are interested in the Now or never warm blood line. I am owner of the stallion Victorio. We are breeding privately with him. We have all ready from our own mares, Victorio x laptop, Victorio x For Edition, Victorio x Espri, Victorio x Liostro. All of them are great foals. Our mares are pregnant again this year with him. Some private breeders has come to us to ask for his semen. Then, there are some other foals around, but not Hugh quantity. Victorio is in sport at the moment. He is 6 y.o. and is doing a great work. He shows his talent everyday. Very quick in front, and a perfect technic over the jump. We will be in Lenaken for the worldwide young horses championship in Belgium.
We are quite sure we will see him in Brasil 2016 !!!
Before to start with Victorio, we got a filly from Now or Never x Laptop. She got the prize as best foal in the Hessen state final 2 years ago. Amazing!.
If there is some one interested to breed with Victorio, we will be very very happy to attend petitions.

[winter]

Donella, not sure if you go to the fall sale but a few years ago there was a filly by Toronto. I adored her. Not big but a very good jumper and nice mover. If I were looking for a two year old I would have bought, as it was I had to sit on my hands. I immediately started looking at the Now or Never line for one of my mares.

[rodawn]

I have been looking at Wilton for my Belisar mare simply because Now or Never M is not available frozen and the Belisar x Now or Never match is a very good one, so Wilton might be a good alternative.

Any of the stallions with Now or Never on top and Saros xx/Belisar through the damline will produce well-rounded horses that can perform both sports fairly equally well, especially since it is Belisar who brings in superior temperament, rideability, elasticity and gaits.

You asked specifically about Wilton or Uccello, both share a similar damline - both top and bottom lineages are stallion producers as well producing exceptional broodmares.

2012 Das Goldene Buch: Der Springvererber mit Top-Zuchtwert Now Or Never - revealing he has produced Alchimist, Toronto, Uccello, Uno, Valentino, Vallado, Volkonsky, Wilson, and Wilton, to name a few. Basically, he has stallion sons standing in Germany, Sweden, Holland, United States, Russia, Spain, and Belgium.

The Belisar damline is found specifically in Valentino, Wilton, and Toronto - the Keur TB stallion Saros xx sired Belisar. As an aside, Belisar has also produced the dressage stallions, Kroonjuweel who has an index of 150 points and is rated a top sire of performance horses, and Houston who was SPT champion and has himself already produced 3 stallions, all of whom were themselves SPT champions. And I believe he has a son in the UK, and also the USA, but I could be wrong about the last one. Belisar is long dead now, but still carries a reliability index of 93% in Holland and his list of Ster, preferent and prestatie mares is impressive.

So, either lineage is a very strong one to capitalize on. I am not sure I agree that Belisar would squish the jump per se, because it depends on what mare he was paired with. He performed equally well in both disciplines and sired for both disciplines. My own mare is a testament to that who was shown jumping and always in the money. She has a strong competitive spirit. Her daughter has never placed lower than 2nd and again shows similar competitive spirit.

If you want to avoid Belisar specifically, 3 stallions pairing Now or Never and Saros xx are Vallado (now called Praise) who used to stand at Silver Creek, and Alchimist and Uccello both standing in Germany.

[_Tradewind]

Has anyone seen any Wilton foals? He seems like a nice type and I like the versatility demonstrated in his stallion test scores. I have a Federweisser x Weltruhm mare that I am looking to cross with a versatile stallion. I have no illusions of trying to breed a top showjumper with her dam’s breeding being primarily dressage. The mare is very typey and elastic-moving but could use more power and while she is quite modern herself, could use more blood as she produces a bit coarser than herself. Given Federweisser’s versatility, though, I would love a powerful, good moving (but fairly modern) jumper-bred stallion to produce a dressage prospect that might have reasonable jumping ability as well. Thoughts on Wilton? Is there a reason he is not a more popular sire?

[rodawn]

The notes on Wilton state he is not approved for the Hanoverian Verband. He is, however, fully approved KWPN. That is most likely the reason, since he is marketed through Celle - which is Hanoverian territory.

[Stinky]

I have a 4 yr Wilton mare and I LOVE HER!! I started her last year and was having so much fun that I never wanted to get off. She is powerful, naturally balanced and her rhythm is so fixed that I think she has a metronome built in her head. I would have liked to do the 4 yr old FEI classes this year, but she had a baby. I can’t WAIT to wean the parasite and get her going again.

I am totally in love with this horse and I hope that Wilton would be used more!

[_Tradewind]

[QUOTE=rodawn;6618186]
The notes on Wilton state he is not approved for the Hanoverian Verband. He is, however, fully approved KWPN. That is most likely the reason, since he is marketed through Celle - which is Hanoverian territory.[/QUOTE]

Why would Wilton be available through Celle if he is not Hanoverian approved? I just received the Canadian Hanoverian Celle semen order form with the list of available stallions and thought I’d look more into Wilton since I don’t know much about him. That is disappointing.