Hm yes - that’s true. Lame could mean anything. And there doesn’t seem to be much incentive to win at the cost of laming your horse.
[QUOTE=Xanthoria;6484563]
Hm yes - that’s true. Lame could mean anything. And there doesn’t seem to be much incentive to win at the cost of laming your horse.[/QUOTE]
There should be no incentive on earth that is worth winning at the cost of laming your horse.
I helped crew for three riders. One top tenned. The other 2 were pulled. One for lameness, one metabolic. All these horses train together, should have been in great shape, but it happens, and the bad day was caught early by the vet. The metabolic needed some support, but looked chipper and no issues by morning. The lameness was very slight, but no heat or swelling, they were going to give it a few days. All the vets and people I saw (there is an entire barn devoted to injured/ill/recovering horses) the horses were always the top concern.
I know I have personally been on a trail ride, trotting along, and my horse takes some funky steps. I’ve gotten off, walked him home, and he’s looked a little off. The next day he’s running around. Whack to the hoof, bruise, small strain, so many things can happen.
I also think a horse can go home from a show, and then turn up lame, or tie-up, or anything like that. None of that is recorded, because they’re off the clock. These endurance horses are never off the clock until they are cleared by the vet, which seemed to me very safe.
Tevis and other rides are pushing the limits. But with as many safety precautions as can be had at an event. I saw some riders that looked like they needed to be vetted!
Tevis isn’t even the hardest 100miler in America. It’s just the most famous, partly because of Courgar Rock. Old Dominion is said to be harder than Tevis, and I believe the hardest 100 mile ride we have.
I dont think that being sore is considered normal and although I guess the official requirement for being pullled is a Grade 3?? (honestly I dont know- all of the times that my horse has been any grade of lameness, I’ve pulled) but in reality, if your horse is a Grade 1 or 2 and you know that you have dozens more miles to go of an extremely difficult trail, I cant imagine continuing on. Like I said in my above post, the trail is so rough that so many things can go wrong, but I would be willing to bet that most of the lamenesses are minor and resolve quickly with no treatment. I dont think that there are many bowed tendons or suspensories or anything like that.
I’ve done AERC rides for over 10 years. I think I have about 5 lameness pulls in about 50 starts. None of those were serious- I remember one was from stepping on a rock, one was a muscle cramp and the others were mysteries. I actually think that endurance horses are extremely sound animals because they absolutely have to be- you are not going to head out there on a questionable one. Pretty much all of the rides that we finished, I was amazed at how fantastic my horse looked afterward.
[QUOTE=Xanthoria;6479704]
I saw that about 50% of the horses who started the Tevis Cup did not complete it. The vast majority for being lame or “metabolic.”
Is that normal for a 100 mile race?
How lame is lame enough to be pulled?
Similarly, what constitutes “metabolic” issues so bad you’re not allowed to go on?[/QUOTE]
This is normal for THIS ride. Sometimes the completion rate is much less. Just depends.
Some riders get altitude sickness, or dehydration. Their horse is perfectly fine, but the rider is too ill to complete. So they pull. This is reflected in the completion rates. This is reflected in any and all endurance or LD rides. If the rider is hurt and can not continue, they pull. This is also reflected in the completion rates.
Things happen, and not always to the horse.
Metabolic: heart rate is too high and will not come down in the specified amount of time. And yes, I have seen the vets take temps on horses. Especially here in the SE region. Depends on the ride vet, and the ride.
[QUOTE=Neigh-Neigh;6484832]
Tevis isn’t even the hardest 100miler in America. It’s just the most famous, partly because of Courgar Rock. Old Dominion is said to be harder than Tevis, and I believe the hardest 100 mile ride we have.[/QUOTE]
I just had a quick question that probably needs a long answer–why is the Old Dominion the hardest? A patriotic Virginian wants to know 
[QUOTE=QacarXan;6490461]
I just had a quick question that probably needs a long answer–why is the Old Dominion the hardest? A patriotic Virginian wants to know :D[/QUOTE]
I’m sure someone who’s done the OD 100 will chime in, but my experience doing the 50 is that in addition to going up and down lots of steep hills (including a couple of straight-up-the-mountain singletracks that are several miles long), much of the trail is extremely rocky, with large, uneven rocks that make it difficult to travel at any sort of speed. The OD trails are notorious for “eating” shoes and hoof boots 
[QUOTE=BigHorseLittleHorse;6491090]
I’m sure someone who’s done the OD 100 will chime in, but my experience doing the 50 is that in addition to going up and down lots of steep hills (including a couple of straight-up-the-mountain singletracks that are several miles long), much of the trail is extremely rocky, with large, uneven rocks that make it difficult to travel at any sort of speed. The OD trails are notorious for “eating” shoes and hoof boots :)[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the information! That makes a lot of sense.
I’m in Colorado for school, and people keep giving me the side-eye here when I tell them that Virginia’s endurance riding is top notch, so now I can tell them about the OD too.
Does the heat have anything to do with it either? I know Tevis has had snow in the area during the ride, but isn’t the OD in June? Virginia heat can be something.
[QUOTE=QacarXan;6491111]
Does the heat have anything to do with it either? I know Tevis has had snow in the area during the ride, but isn’t the OD in June? Virginia heat can be something.[/QUOTE]
Depending on the year, yes. This year wasn’t bad at all (low 80s), but others have been very hot and humid.
[QUOTE=Xanthoria;6479745]
Yeah I looked up Tevis stats just now and the organizers say “From 1955 through 2011, there have been 9,278 starting entries, of which 5,066 (54.6%) finished.”
That’s a really low figure, seems like! 46% of horses injured etc per competition?[/QUOTE]
Some riders pull because a horse loses a shoe, and are getting footsore - not lame… but getting there.
Som riders have a fall - they pull. nothing wrong with the horse.
and yep some horses pull due to health issues.
Tevis is tough.
I’ve ridden it (more then once)
1 pulled once myself because my horse was NQR, - not lame/ not metabolic, but he didn’t feel right to me, so we quit. as a purely retarded reason why I had no completion - I was being overly paranoid!
Had a vet check him out, never did find anything - but there are endurance riders like that - we won’t risk our horse just to win - (at least the main core group of NA riders won’t - the ones that stick around for years.)
Im unsure what you are fishing for, call me suspicious but all your posts seem to be ‘angling’ towards something. but I’ll play.
endurance is/can be a fun casual sport, or an extreme one, depending on what caliber of endurance rider you hang with - just like your adult casual schooling show dressage rider is a lot less extreme that your heading to the olympics rider.
To that end, Tevis is one of the extremes - its one of those ultimate tough rides that endurance riders dream of completing - it’s been considered one of the pinnacles of the sport for well… ever.
and if you wished to educate yourself further - spend some time researching what horses/riders need to accomplish to even show up at Tevis base camp - along with how many of those rider/horse combinations have been at Tevis multiple times, vs their completions/pulls, and and how many other rides/mileages they’ve finished/pulled at – and you might get a better picture of whatever theory is that you are testing.
I wish horse shows had vets that would pull nqr horses. I’ve seen way too many gimpy dressage horses. 
Endurance rides have excellent vets and ride management.
[QUOTE=QacarXan;6490461]
I just had a quick question that probably needs a long answer–why is the Old Dominion the hardest? A patriotic Virginian wants to know :D[/QUOTE]
Because John Crandell said so. :):)
I rode 50 miles of Tevis this year. It was my first try and I trailered my horse 3 days to get there. My horse was doing great and we were cleared at Last Chance (50 miles). I left the check on schedule but my horse was a little off so I returned to the check and pulled her. This will show as Rider Option but she was lame (slightly). The vets can’t pull me in this situation, I have to self-pull. There was no way I was taking her the next 5 miles down and up a canyon though. The terrain is one of the toughest in NA which accounts for the lower completion rate. I don’t know what was wrong with my horse and she was fine the next day. Most lamenesses at endurance rides are very mild and caught early. This was also my horse’s first pull in 700 competition miles so it was a tough ride.
Were ALL the entries for the 100 miles or were there shorter distances in the mix?
% completion very much depends on the terrain. You would not ride the Tevis at the same speed as the riders in the desert in Dubhai, but I’m sure that there are tracks in the USA that could be ridden pretty fast.
And yes experience is a huge factor both for the horse and rider - that’s why long time combinations do well - the horse knows the drill, and the rider understands and supports it.
Don’t forget though, that every horse starts out doing nice slow short rides, and builds distance up over the years. Most horses will only do one or two 100 milers a year.
Since it is apparent you don’t know much about the sport, I need to point out that the pull criteira is whether the horse is “fit to continue.”
That doesn’t mean the horse is dead lame…he could be just abit off (sometimes from fatigue) or his gut sounds suppressed or whatever and the vet is thinking this horse is NOT “fit to continue.” So he’s pulled.
The next day the horse could be perfectly fine – and many of them (most, actually) are. The trails are not littered with fallen horses.:eek:
You need to learn more about the sport.
As far as Europe, it is pretty much known that the Tevis is one (if not THE) toughest rides in the world…plenty of riders come from all over the world to give it a try.
If you have ever ridden through the VA woods during one of their hot, VERY HIGH humidity summer days, you’d know why many consider it harder.
I think alot depends on the day of the ride and the weather. Both are very tough rides.
