NY Times Article on Justify

[WinterTriangle]

@findeight

Think other countries DO have the same problems we do in Racing like they do in the other disciplines.

Drug positives, or drug positives being swept under the rug? These are 2 different things.

What I was also wondering if such high levels of scolp. was found (dr. sams described it as “excessive”) and there was the possibility of such a high level of contamination in feed/hay/bedding, wouldn’t it have been responsible to alert all the other horsemen and barns at SA …seems like an incident like this would trigger a rather widespread announcement to protect the safety of other horses…and the feed/hay supplier identified as well?

Seem rather negligent not to have done so. 4x or 5x the limit is a lot…in austrialia it would be considered 12x the threshold.

This is why it’s important to KNOW what the levels that the other horses tested at…the other ones that had positives during same timeframe. ??

I did have to chuckle at the SA statement during the latest horse euthanization on the traininng track last week (Zeke, a 4 year old gelding, fractured pelvis, had to be put down). Here is what they said: (bolding is mine). It really does make you laugh given what we just witnessed with the positive drug tests being hidden:

""Santa Anita will continue to work closely with the California Horse Racing Board and will continue to be transparent with our stakeholders and all of our constituents, including the public, as more facts come in.”

[Lord_Helpus]

It might be interesting to know if BB had thrown away ever bale of that hay and had the loft brushed and scrubbed clean. IMO, a reaction like that would make me feel better that it was a case of accidental contamination

[On_the_Farm]

@Lord Helpus

It might be interesting to know if BB had thrown away ever bale of that hay and had the loft brushed and scrubbed clean. IMO, a reaction like that would make me feel better that it was a case of accidental contamination

The hay from that particular load was probably long gone by the time Justify’s test came back.

[skydy]

Bolt d’Oro trainer Mick Ruis https://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/horses/horse-racing/2019/09/12/bolt-doro-trainer-says-lawsuit-possible-over-justify-santa-anita-win/2303812001/

[Where_sMyWhite]

Sigh…

[Laurierace]

@skydy

Bolt d’Oro trainer Mick Ruis https://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/horses/horse-racing/2019/09/12/bolt-doro-trainer-says-lawsuit-possible-over-justify-santa-anita-win/2303812001/

That’s from 10 days ago, I assume they came to their senses since then

[skydy]

I did notice the date. :yes:

Why do you think that they have reconsidered? It takes time to prepare a lawsuit, especially if you don’t want it to be dismissed out of hand.

If they do file, discovery will be interesting indeed.

[Laurierace]

Ok, I guess saying I hope they have reconsidered would be more accurate.

[Laurierace]

The best article I have seen thus far on this subject
https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fsports.nbcsports.com%2F2019%2F09%2F25%2Fstory-behind-justify-positive-drug-test%2F%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR2G6mgfigzMHwIxjHgQlFxlhXcXb9dLwJ7f8SbvqIC0zJtVUCStlnVa_tc&h=AT3IMbeqX50t_4yhpaFzPc3tEbuIh3B7_oHl5ff05-w3q5ucar5sZ8spN-Aw4Og0ZYs8MmS6HAt7aO8i5nhuU6fJRu654oYAW_Nd4BpelbjsirnrrdGflTVo7G0-I5mXq85N3zOhhmiLw6syGI_ozuE36jOVm-idSSZW0Jh4y5YaOQM55gi-rv3gTRci9xpBrHUNZXdmYv5fB1qgYThS92Pgq4-CHm6NoDtfpk-yIX50ZpejXCVgNMxF1nUUNtZVRdMl4TL1PoPhnG54J9C5cI1pM-o_eGO_r84jnuxl2DlcqmRqPG6FCKdTE9LOcSQNxlyZTecVjsI3McqkBcjFwUnOPoSrnbF0zFa5C6ywqk3AjTKVgTZQmEXjAzJvmhxTMn6W_Vl_NtjAKecsUDXiyFb1zupaEVdt8nCGrJ43YoItX90GAyy93kyZzkxpnYszOj5fEpxv4u4ubS17vX2srR8vQaHecBOi0iOty4zoTF8B-dy9XR_NV7ujcAoMO6eFhwJl8UbvKJmKCRxuWaEWnP5NhSQXeDnFtSG72rrPuze1_88p7Nct6LF2apAX8WiH9oIxwWlNTawj6TxR_KYOuBy2sxipM0aNjG1qYcWr35mJkq4wkP0oH4MA

[LaurieB]

@Laurierace

The best article I have seen thus far on this subject
https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fsports.nbcsports.com%2F2019%2F09%2F25%2Fstory-behind-justify-positive-drug-test%2F%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR2G6mgfigzMHwIxjHgQlFxlhXcXb9dLwJ7f8SbvqIC0zJtVUCStlnVa_tc&h=AT3IMbeqX50t_4yhpaFzPc3tEbuIh3B7_oHl5ff05-w3q5ucar5sZ8spN-Aw4Og0ZYs8MmS6HAt7aO8i5nhuU6fJRu654oYAW_Nd4BpelbjsirnrrdGflTVo7G0-I5mXq85N3zOhhmiLw6syGI_ozuE36jOVm-idSSZW0Jh4y5YaOQM55gi-rv3gTRci9xpBrHUNZXdmYv5fB1qgYThS92Pgq4-CHm6NoDtfpk-yIX50ZpejXCVgNMxF1nUUNtZVRdMl4TL1PoPhnG54J9C5cI1pM-o_eGO_r84jnuxl2DlcqmRqPG6FCKdTE9LOcSQNxlyZTecVjsI3McqkBcjFwUnOPoSrnbF0zFa5C6ywqk3AjTKVgTZQmEXjAzJvmhxTMn6W_Vl_NtjAKecsUDXiyFb1zupaEVdt8nCGrJ43YoItX90GAyy93kyZzkxpnYszOj5fEpxv4u4ubS17vX2srR8vQaHecBOi0iOty4zoTF8B-dy9XR_NV7ujcAoMO6eFhwJl8UbvKJmKCRxuWaEWnP5NhSQXeDnFtSG72rrPuze1_88p7Nct6LF2apAX8WiH9oIxwWlNTawj6TxR_KYOuBy2sxipM0aNjG1qYcWr35mJkq4wkP0oH4MA

I agree.

[Where_sMyWhite]

++

Well researched and written article.

Direct link to the NBCSports article…

https://sports.nbcsports.com/2019/09/25/story-behind-justify-positive-drug-test/?fbclid=IwAR2G6mgfigzMHwIxjHgQlFxlhXcXb9dLwJ7f8SbvqIC0zJtVUCStlnVa_tc

[Palm_Beach]

Still no explanation as to why they waited 8 days to inform Baffert of the positive test. What was that stuff up at DE Park that was in the bedding? Glaucine. Here is an article. Trainers were informed immediately, there was no 8 day delay. I was at the track when all these positives came back and everyone was talking about it.

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/212860/md-de-rule-glaucine-positives-contamination

[Vindicated]

@Vindicated

Sorry guys…
I think there is a decent chance that this is being BLOWN way out of proportion by those who would like racing to disappear.
The fact that PETA is involved-and has given quotes is highly suspicious. Not like they have EVER fabricated BS to make horse people look horrible.

Maybe take a harder look at the other side, as with everything in life, the truth often lies in somewhere in the middle.

The NBC article was exactly what I was hoping would be published in response to the poorly researched NYT article.
Anyone with half a working brain cell could tell that NYT article should have been published in Star. The NYT editor should be ashamed of himself for allowing such trash to be published in a fairly well regarded publication.

[Vindicated]

@Palm Beach

Still no explanation as to why they waited 8 days to inform Baffert of the positive test. What was that stuff up at DE Park that was in the bedding? Glaucine. Here is an article. Trainers were informed immediately, there was no 8 day delay. I was at the track when all these positives came back and everyone was talking about it.

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/212860/md-de-rule-glaucine-positives-contamination

My assumption here would be that in East Coast case, that was an uncommon occurrence. Whereas, everything I have read leads me to believe that jimson weed is often enough an issue as it’s not “news”.

Where is this 8 days thing? What I read in both the NYT and NBC article is that it was 9 days PRIOR to the Kentucky Derby that Baffert was made aware. Which… Would have been 18 days AFTER the SA Derby.

[smoofox]

Thanks for the link to the NBC Sports article. Refreshingly detailed and researched.

[Palm_Beach]

@Vindicated

My assumption here would be that in East Coast case, that was an uncommon occurrence. Whereas, everything I have read leads me to believe that jimson weed is often enough an issue as it’s not “news”.

Where is this 8 days thing? What I read in both the NYT and NBC article is that it was 9 days PRIOR to the Kentucky Derby that Baffert was made aware. Which… Would have been 18 days AFTER the SA Derby.

It takes a week or two to get the test results back. Then the stewards sat on the results for 8 days. No one does that. Ever.

[Pronzini]

@Palm Beach

It takes a week or two to get the test results back. Then the stewards sat on the results for 8 days. No one does that. Ever.

I’m not an expert in this but the one I have a little insight in was the Masochistic thing and that took a month for the test and the split sample. I wouldn’t assume that the time frame is the same everywhere.

[Palm_Beach]

@Pronzini

I’m not an expert in this but the one I have a little insight in was the Masochistic thing and that took a month for the test and the split sample. I wouldn’t assume that the time frame is the same everywhere.

Sample A gets sent out immediately. Results come back in 1-2 weeks to the stewards. THEN the stewards notify the trainer. Which is usually immediately. Then the trainer requests the split be sent out. In Justify’s case, the stewards sat on the results for 8 days, so when the split went out, there was little chance at getting a result before the Derby.

[Where_sMyWhite]

Some light reading…

CHRB Rule 1859, Taking, Testing and Reporting of Samples

http://www.chrb.ca.gov/query_rules_and_regulations_database.asp?form_query_action=display_rule&form_query_rule_number=1859&form_query_rule_title=Taking%2C+Testing+and+Reporting+of+Samples.&form_query_article=Taking%2C+Testing+and+Reporting+of+Samples.&form_query_article_index=17&form_query_argument=1859

CHRB Rule 1859.25, Split Sample Testing

http://www.chrb.ca.gov/query_rules_and_regulations_database.asp?form_query_action=display_rule&form_query_rule_number=1859.25&form_query_rule_title=Split+Sample+Testing.&form_query_article=Split+Sample+Testing.&form_query_article_index=17&form_query_argument=1859.25

Overall, very few time restrictions in either rule. Really the only one I found was that owner and trainer are notified confidentially if there is a finding of a prohibited substance. The owner and trainer have 72 hours to request the spit sample of the office test. Didn’t find anything really about how soon the owner and trainer must be notified by a Supervising Investigator about the finding.

IMO, one can say that the stewards sat on a test but there appears to be nothing in the rules about how soon the owner and trainer must be notified.

[Palm_Beach]

@Where'sMyWhite

Some light reading…

CHRB Rule 1859, Taking, Testing and Reporting of Samples

http://www.chrb.ca.gov/query_rules_and_regulations_database.asp?form_query_action=display_rule&form_query_rule_number=1859&form_query_rule_title=Taking%2C+Testing+and+Reporting+of+Samples.&form_query_article=Taking%2C+Testing+and+Reporting+of+Samples.&form_query_article_index=17&form_query_argument=1859

CHRB Rule 1859.25, Split Sample Testing

http://www.chrb.ca.gov/query_rules_and_regulations_database.asp?form_query_action=display_rule&form_query_rule_number=1859.25&form_query_rule_title=Split+Sample+Testing.&form_query_article=Split+Sample+Testing.&form_query_article_index=17&form_query_argument=1859.25

Overall, very few time restrictions in either rule. Really the only one I found was that owner and trainer are notified confidentially if there is a finding of a prohibited substance. The owner and trainer have 72 hours to request the spit sample of the office test. Didn’t find anything really about how soon the owner and trainer must be notified by a Supervising Investigator about the finding.

IMO, one can say that the stewards sat on a test but there appears to be nothing in the rules about how soon the owner and trainer must be notified.

You are correct, there are no rules on how soon a trainer/owner must be notified. What the horsemen are complaining about is that Baffert gets preferential treatment. I’ve traveled from Saratoga to Colonial this summer, and no one has ever heard of the stewards waiting over a week to notify a trainer of a positive test in the history of racing. Everyone says the trainer gets notified immediately. It reeks. For the vast majority of trainer and owners, making money in this sport is tough. And when you see someone who makes millions a year hand over fist year after year and that person gets treated favorably when all other people get the fear of God put into them by the stewards, it’s a bit disheartening. And the people on the backside who are out there day after day before dawn trying to eek out a living get hurt 1,000,000 more than Baffert by bad publicity that threatens the existence of racing because he can retire happily with his fortune but most horsemen need that paycheck every week to keep food on the table and a roof over their heads, and they don’t really have any other trade to ply.