Ocala Drug Positives in riders

[JER]

One element of a case that the hearing panel will consider is if the athlete showed a reasonable degree of care before deciding to take the PED. It seems like these riders did nothing in terms of establishing whether the substance was allowed or not. ‘Nothing’ is not usually considered to be a reasonable degree of care.

Can someone explain the cocaine rumors to me? I’m not on FB and don’t pay attention to the social aspects of eventing, but I’m curious because the rumors must have had strong circulation if EN went to USEF for a statement on it. So what was up with that? Did the story emerge right after Ocala or was it a few weeks later, when the USEF would have been notified of the positive tests, which would have resulted in USEF notifying the riders?

[Calling_Duck]

“I realize this is so far off base, but people are comparing Olympic bodies and I’m like I could be good at curling with these extra 40lbs I’m carrying.”

Thank you, phoenixrises. I will see you at the curling tryouts. I’ll be the one with the cup of cocoa and the fist full of french fries. Ready to win for our country.

[findeight]

Maybe they were seen snorting at this and/or another party and it was assumed to be blow? Apparently you can also snort this stuff and these days everything goes on FB. Nothing is really private anymore and it’s always been true the only way two people can keep a secret is one of them is dead.

I think they should follow in the steps of some before them and claim it was in a supplement they bought from a guy in the parking lot but not listed on the label or the old switched bucket…er…snack dish or picking up the wrong red Dixie party cup excuse.

[JER]

@Calling Duck

Thank you, phoenixrises. I will see you at the curling tryouts. I’ll be the one with the cup of cocoa and the fist full of french fries. Ready to win for our country.

Be careful though. Don’t let anybody put anything in your cocoa or dip your fries in any unknown substance.

There was a scandal of sorts in Canadian paralympic curling and also at least one case of doping in able-bodied curling recently.

No pastime is exempt from either doping or excessive partying. A few years ago, there were several odd deaths (and an entire women’s team disappeared) at the Chess Olympiad in Oslo. At least one death was from excessive drinking.

[Jealoushe]

@JER

One element of a case that the hearing panel will consider is if the athlete showed a reasonable degree of care before deciding to take the PED. It seems like these riders did nothing in terms of establishing whether the substance was allowed or not. ‘Nothing’ is not usually considered to be a reasonable degree of care.

Can someone explain the cocaine rumors to me? I’m not on FB and don’t pay attention to the social aspects of eventing, but I’m curious because the rumors must have had strong circulation if EN went to USEF for a statement on it. So what was up with that? Did the story emerge right after Ocala or was it a few weeks later, when the USEF would have been notified of the positive tests, which would have resulted in USEF notifying the riders?

https://eventingconnect.today/2017/1…t-persecution/

and the writer is someone who winters in Floridas mother. So she either heard it or saw it.

LOL at the classic comments too

So she says she was contacted by multiple people who witnesses it. So either someone is lying (the writer) or mutiple people are lying, or they used the drugs to cover up their coke use. The way this is written -if true- would support the party side of things.

[Jealoushe]

Yeah, bit of a stretch to compare the two.

[Sticky_Situation]

I didn’t read all 13 pages of the thread, so I apologize if I’m repeating things that have already been said … but I have a few thoughts about this whole situation.

It sounds like at least one of the riders in question has stated that she has a recent prescription, and just failed to do the proper paperwork. Fair enough, but it is definitely a bit overly coincidental that they are all training partners of sorts.

IMO, ADHD (which is generally what the drugs/metabolites involved in this case are associated with) is beginning to be over diagnosed in adults just as it has been in children. And the assertion that Adderall has some fundamentally different effect in an ADHD person versus a “normal” one isn’t really true. Just like caffeine or anything else with a stimulant effect, its effects can vary from person to person … but saying that it will have beneficial effects in someone with ADHD but detract from performance in “normal” individuals is a false dichotomy. The majority of people that take it in non-excessive doses will experience improved concentration and decreased fatigue, regardless of underlying ADHD … which could definitely be considered performance enhancing.

If they all had valid prescriptions, I would be wondering why they all suddenly developed ADHD at the same time, as adults … and question the appropriateness of the prescription. If it was an issue of partying/sharing meds, well then, hopefully they learn from the experience and if needed, get help.

[SnicklefritzG]

Outrageous “article”. I can’t believe Eventing Nation prints that kind of trash. Talking about suspected cocaine use based on hearsay?

What was the timing of that piece with comments from the USEF debunking the cocaine comment? Nevertheless, after USEF came out with their statement, EN should have taken that article down.

the woman who wrote it sounds like an insecure wannabe

[SnicklefritzG]

@Jealoushe

https://eventingconnect.today/2017/1…t-persecution/

and the writer is someone who winters in Floridas mother. So she either heard it or saw it.

LOL at the classic comments too

So she says she was contacted by multiple people who witnesses it. So either someone is lying (the writer) or mutiple people are lying, or they used the drugs to cover up their coke use. The way this is written -if true- would support the party side of things.

Outrageous “article”. I can’t believe Eventing Nation prints that kind of trash. Talking about suspected cocaine use based on hearsay?

What was the timing of that piece with comments from the USEF debunking the cocaine comment? Nevertheless, after USEF came out with their statement, EN should have taken that article down.

the woman who wrote it sounds like an insecure wannabe

[SnicklefritzG]

Related drugs were used widely during WWII to combat battle fatigue. Numerous books and articles have been written on what the Nazis gave their soldiers to use to keep them awake and alert for long periods of time. Even the Allied forces were using similar drugs for related reasons.

It wouldn’t be surprising that someone in the modern age would try these drugs to combat fatigue, increase alertness and potentially gain a competitive edge.

@Sticky Situation

I didn’t read all 13 pages of the thread, so I apologize if I’m repeating things that have already been said … but I have a few thoughts about this whole situation.

It sounds like at least one of the riders in question has stated that she has a recent prescription, and just failed to do the proper paperwork. Fair enough, but it is definitely a bit overly coincidental that they are all training partners of sorts.

IMO, ADHD (which is generally what the drugs/metabolites involved in this case are associated with) is beginning to be over diagnosed in adults just as it has been in children. And the assertion that Adderall has some fundamentally different effect in an ADHD person versus a “normal” one isn’t really true. Just like caffeine or anything else with a stimulant effect, its effects can vary from person to person … but saying that it will have beneficial effects in someone with ADHD but detract from performance in “normal” individuals is a false dichotomy. The majority of people that take it in non-excessive doses will experience improved concentration and decreased fatigue, regardless of underlying ADHD … which could definitely be considered performance enhancing.

If they all had valid prescriptions, I would be wondering why they all suddenly developed ADHD at the same time, as adults … and question the appropriateness of the prescription. If it was an issue of partying/sharing meds, well then, hopefully they learn from the experience and if needed, get help.

[skydy]

@Jealoushe

yeah! Isn’t that crazy…apparently they take a shot (orally). shudder

Google “Banamine for hangover” you will see forums of all shapes and sizes where people talk about it lol not just horse ones!

I don’t think Banamine is approved for use in humans. What a terrible risk to take such a potent NSAID when a safe dosage for humans (if there is one) has not been determined.:eek:

[Groom_amp_Taxi]

@SnicklefritzG

Outrageous “article”. I can’t believe Eventing Nation prints that kind of trash. Talking about suspected cocaine use based on hearsay?

What was the timing of that piece with comments from the USEF debunking the cocaine comment? Nevertheless, after USEF came out with their statement, EN should have taken that article down.

the woman who wrote it sounds like an insecure wannabe

It wasn’t Eventing Nation. It was Eventing Connect. Eventing Connect is a website run by Canadian eventer Sable Geisler and her mother. It is primarily an opinion site that repackages content from other sites, and in mpo, it is often tacky and in poor taste (see lovely language in one of the comments to the article linked as example). I never go there voluntarily for “news”, but they have tons of followers on social media, and I often see their content shared by other eventers. They also seems to have tons of advertisers that are well-known in eventing.

[snowrider]

@Darkwave

I do not see Synthroid anywhere on the 2018 WADA list: https://www.usada.org/wp-content/upl…ed-list-en.pdf

I know that USADA had asked WADA to consider banning it, but nothing happened.

As an aside - curious to know where you are located. I’m in the DC/Virginia area - we unquestionably have doping issues here.

West Coast. These are all bike racers/ tri-atheletes who were not athletic as kids or young people and got into sport later on. Trying to recapture their lost youth in their middle age. The doctors are just as bad- one friend had to drop out of a race with pulmonary edema (coughing up frothy blood) and I was the only person involved who said “hey, that’s bad- you need to go to the doctor”. Race officials, other competitors were like “too bad girl, you were crushing it!”. She went a week later and the doctor, who mostly works with older atheltes who want to enhance performance, supposedly told her it was a bout of mild rhabdo and cleared her to compete the following weekend. I didn’t even know where to start talking to her about that one.

They’d all have severe eating disorders if they could but it gets in the way of the partying. And I know half the guys are on testosterone. It’s an moronic culture and I have have washed my hands of it. I like to bike and I used to like to run but like- we are old and not going to the Olympics, it’s for fun and these people are not fun. Our local running groups are fun, I wish I could still run but hip says nope to that.

Although now that I hear people take Banamine maybe that is the dumbest thing I’ve head all month.

[SnicklefritzG]

Thanks for pointing that out. I clicked on the link that someone else posted and took a quick look at the “article”. The fact that I got the sites mixed up probably says something about how EC is trying to look like reputable sites in order to fool people, at least initially.

@Groom&Taxi

It wasn’t Eventing Nation. It was Eventing Connect. Eventing Connect is a website run by Canadian eventer Sable Geisler and her mother. It is primarily an opinion site that repackages content from other sites, and in mpo, it is often tacky and in poor taste (see lovely language in one of the comments to the article linked as example). I never go there voluntarily for “news”, but they have tons of followers on social media, and I often see their content shared by other eventers. They also seems to have tons of advertisers that are well-known in eventing.

[lep]

This was what was posted on EN before the results were published. http://eventingnation.com/usef-any-speculation-as-to-positives-for-cocaine-is-unfounded/

[SnicklefritzG]

I used to do amateur racing (cycling) when I live on the West Coast, so I’m not at all surprised by what you are saying. We knew there were amateurs who were doping, people talked about it occasionally, but there wasn’t a lot of drug testing at that level, so I guess people got away with it. In the end it’s silly because this wasn’t about money, just about ego and moving up the levels.

@snowrider

West Coast. These are all bike racers/ tri-atheletes who were not athletic as kids or young people and got into sport later on. Trying to recapture their lost youth in their middle age. The doctors are just as bad- one friend had to drop out of a race with pulmonary edema (coughing up frothy blood) and I was the only person involved who said “hey, that’s bad- you need to go to the doctor”. Race officials, other competitors were like “too bad girl, you were crushing it!”. She went a week later and the doctor, who mostly works with older atheltes who want to enhance performance, supposedly told her it was a bout of mild rhabdo and cleared her to compete the following weekend. I didn’t even know where to start talking to her about that one.

They’d all have severe eating disorders if they could but it gets in the way of the partying. And I know half the guys are on testosterone. It’s an moronic culture and I have have washed my hands of it. I like to bike and I used to like to run but like- we are old and not going to the Olympics, it’s for fun and these people are not fun. Our local running groups are fun, I wish I could still run but hip says nope to that.

Although now that I hear people take Banamine maybe that is the dumbest thing I’ve head all month.

[lucegoose]

@skydy

I don’t think Banamine is approved for use in humans. What a terrible risk to take such a potent NSAID when a safe dosage for humans (if there is one) has not been determined.:eek:

I once got sprayed in the face by a syringe of Banamine. And my big dummy mouth was open. It was one of the most disgusting experiences of my life. Anyone who willingly ingests that stuff is insane.

[North_Dakota]

@Jealoushe

Personally…my thought is they used it for a good night out. My guesses for this are; it was rumored they were doing coke - so either people saw them partying, snorting, or they said something the next day about it and someone heard. Or maybe someone saw them all hyped up and assumed they were doing blow. Or it was used to cure the hangover and wake them up after a night of partying.

These drugs absolutely have a strong effect on you if you aren’t a regular user. Taking things to cure the hangover is also common (like banamine on the H/J circuit), but the ability to wake you up, and also make you focus and be stronger? Makes sense to me.

I don’t think your thoughts are too much of a stretch.

I don’t think Banamine is approved for use in humans. What a terrible risk to take such a potent NSAID when a safe dosage for humans (if there is one) has not been determined.:eek:

I heard about banamine from exercise riders close to 10 years ago when I was in Ocala. They were not shy about openly discussing it with people they barley knew (how I heard about it). There is definitely a subculture of using horse drugs, for getting high or curing hangovers.

[Gestalt]

@Jealoushe

LOL at the classic comments too

I love the one about doing your homework before you open your mouth girly. :lol:

[JER]

Wow. Eventing Connect is rubbish. The writing is low quality and the thinking behind it even lower.