I have seen some of the GRPs in person here on the West Coast–I wouldn’t call them post-narrow either (I loved Honeylips Sabino Ponies type, frame and size–really excellent especially considering his age, only 5), but they are not nearly as deep bodied or wellsprung as some Connemaras can be. If it helps, the ones I’ve seen are similar in body depth to some (typical) long two and three year old purebred Connemaras. But I have pretty big ponies by comparison with some of the more tb types–and not as big/heavy boned as some of the Imports.
Thanks Ise I will PM you my contact info!
Yeah, it’s probably because i am comparing to Cons, which of course are known for their depth of body…
anyway, its a learning experience for sure and that is part of the fun 
i have the same issues as ISE - all my ponies are rather wide! They do get more frame and substance as they age as well. I would agree with GoodPony - the GRP ponies are not bred to be as deepbodied as Connemara’s can be… But I am 5’5 and my feet do not come to the bottom of the barrel on any of my ponies and they all have quite well sprung ribs, super uphill necks with good length of neck. They truely are “small warmbloods” - even all the judges say the same thing to me at the shows.
I agree…you need to see more GRPs in person. My fifteenth is due any day and none of mine have been narrow. I also usenthe wintecmon my youngsters. Even the smaller ones have ridden big and I am always surprised when I dismount after a ride on Burberry.
Modern GRPs are like downsized warmblood with horse proportions. Breeding a 16hh mare to a 14hh stallion will get you the 15 handler you want…
What is the problem…; )
sorry, I didnt mean any disrespect when I mentioned width
My mare is narrow thru the chest area so I want to be sure that i keep that in mind…
as for the rest - i am the kind of person that must do loads of research before i make a decision. especially if i am only breeding once… (or at least that is the plan lol!)
the list is getting smaller so there is hope yet 
I’ve never done a Connemara cross. I don’t have any Connemara’s. Mine are all WB to GRP and they are wonderful. I’ve had great, great comments from judges on my Forrest Flame and Wicked Court Jester crosses, and I just love my Popeyes.
FWIW, I had a Connemara that was about 14.3 and I really disliked riding her because she was super narrow and made me feel like she couldn’t balance herself well with me on board - I am 5’5" and 110, and have schooled medium Welsh’s that felt more sturdy than this mare. So I wouldn’t assume you’d get the feeling you want just because it is a Connemara.
[QUOTE=mbm;6320342]
sorry, I didnt mean any disrespect when I mentioned width
My mare is narrow thru the chest area so I want to be sure that i keep that in mind…
as for the rest - i am the kind of person that must do loads of research before i make a decision. especially if i am only breeding once… (or at least that is the plan lol!)
the list is getting smaller so there is hope yet ;)[/QUOTE]
Better research is done in person, by actually looking at GRPs in person, than internet posting - IME.
[QUOTE=candico;6320460]
FWIW, I had a Connemara that was about 14.3 and I really disliked riding her because she was super narrow and made me feel like she couldn’t balance herself well with me on board - I am 5’5" and 110, and have schooled medium Welsh’s that felt more sturdy than this mare. So I wouldn’t assume you’d get the feeling you want just because it is a Connemara.[/QUOTE]
fwiw, that is why I ultimately sold my Connemara. I am 5’6" and about 125lbs and she was very narrow through the chest with a short back and never got big enough. Saddle fitting for an adult was an absolute nightmare and she was tough to ride balance wise. She was actually very typy and many people thought she was a welsh or arab cross rather than a PB Connemara. All that makes her a fancy little hunter pony but not the adult ammy dressage pony I was looking for!
She was a different type of Connemara for sure, so it is good to know what the pony is like in person and what type he produces. Mine’s dam was by Gun Smoke and is even more narrow than my pony.
[QUOTE=honeylips;6320475]
Better research is done in person, by actually looking at GRPs in person, than internet posting - IME.[/QUOTE]
maybe true but unfortunately given my business and my broken mare there isnt anyway i can take various trips back east or to canada (or germany!) to meet all the boys i am researching.
luckily folks have been super helpful here and elsewhere…
Tiki - Sorry, i got you mixed up with another poster who has done GRP X’s and Con X’s i think she had a sport pony sired by Ballywhim An Luan and also Popeye.
Tiki - Sorry, i got you mixed up with another poster who has done GRP X’s and Con X’s i think she had a sport pony sired by Ballywhim An Luan and also Popeye.[/QUOTE]
Not sure, but think this is me! I had a filly by Ballywhim An Luan which recently sold, she was out of a 15.3H mare, I expect her to finish at 15H. She is now owned by an event rider/trainer in CT. She is a fabulous small horse, very athletic and is starting to show this year.
I also have a Popeye filly, but she is only coming two this year. Very smart, and elegant! But the mare was 12.2H so I expect her to only be a medium size pony. She will be something in the ring, such potential!
I also have two Benno’s Dream babies. One is a 7 yr old gelding out of a welsh mare. Love him, he is my dressage buddy. But boy can he jump as well. I ride him and I am 5’8" he is only 13.3H. I don’t feel like I am riding a pony.
I also have a yearling filly by Benno out of my Crown Heartbreaker mare. She is stunning! I have shown her on the line with the horses and she has held her own. And what a mover! Huge gaits with so much suspension! There is a photo of her in the yearling thread. (a hairy pony photo,lol)
It is challenging to have to do things on line and not go see them in person. I think that is why many people end up with inaccurate ideas of GRP’s. Many things cannot be planned or even predicted with breeding. There are always surprises…esp when breeding cross breds. I have been surprised many times by size. Oddly the most narrow foal I have bred was my FS Don’t Worry filly which I never would have guessed. Genetics are very complex.
I think what you can assume with your mare is you will get an oversized pony/small horse. More than that is anyones guess. There is definitly some frozen semen out there that will not work. Unless you do very careful research, I would be careful with this. Also, this late in the game, I am not sure how much will even be available to you. Some batches from one stallion can be great and the next batch worthless.
There are also several nice GRP’s in the US available by fresh. Pick a stallion that you feel compliments your mare and appeals to you. However, keep in mind this stallion is not the end product and your mare will bring a lot to the equation. This a true F1 cross so more difficult when picking stallions.
In the end…take a leap of faith and you will appreciate the challenges of being a breeder. We will all cheer you on and hopefully look forward to hearing about your foal next year. Good luck!
[QUOTE=hluing;6320982]
It is challenging to have to do things on line and not go see them in person. I think that is why many people end up with inaccurate ideas of GRP’s. Many things cannot be planned or even predicted with breeding. There are always surprises…esp when breeding cross breds. I have been surprised many times by size. Oddly the most narrow foal I have bred was my FS Don’t Worry filly which I never would have guessed. Genetics are very complex.
I think what you can assume with your mare is you will get an oversized pony/small horse. More than that is anyones guess. [/QUOTE]
Well that’s the thing isn’t it? I just take a look around at the local stallions and what most of them produce and 30% of what comes out of the mare is probably pretty random. You could do everything “right” and wind up with something that isn’t at all what you wanted, I would think it’s especially true breeding a pony to a horse. I know Garner Creek has some full-sibling pony crosses that don’t even look related IMO, let alone from the same exact pairing.
I would think at some point you just gotta say WTF and just do it with the best intentions, realizing that you might end up with something that wasn’t really what you wanted. Maybe you will end up with something you didn’t realize you wanted, but is perfect? And maybe you’ll go through the whole damn thing and end up with nothing at all in the end.
[QUOTE=Perfect Pony;6321052]
Well that’s the thing isn’t it? I just take a look around at the local stallions and what most of them produce and 30% of what comes out of the mare is probably pretty random. You could do everything “right” and wind up with something that isn’t at all what you wanted, I would think it’s especially true breeding a pony to a horse. I know Garner Creek has some full-sibling pony crosses that don’t even look related IMO, let alone from the same exact pairing.
I would think at some point you just gotta say WTF and just do it with the best intentions, realizing that you might end up with something that wasn’t really what you wanted. Maybe you will end up with something you didn’t realize you wanted, but is perfect? And maybe you’ll go through the whole damn thing and end up with nothing at all in the end.[/QUOTE]
I agree with you, PP. The equation is further complicated because your mare is a maiden. It is easier to breed a mare with a production record. You are right to be looking at stallions with offspring, and it will be helpful to know what the dam of said offspring is like. And then, you hold your breath, say WTF, and do it. 
There are so many stallion choices it is easy to get mired in all of the possibililties. If you go with frozen, just make sure you can find successful pregnancies from it.
You guys are great! I *am * getting mired in the possibilities and also in the fact that most of the ponies I like don’t have much in the way of offspring that are old enough to be ridden let alone trained up the levels!
And yes, at some point I will need to say OFFS just breed her!
And also fwiw, my biggest challenge is to decide what I want to try to produce - that actually has morphed a bit as I have done research
Anyway, I have a short list of possibilities that I am narrowing down. Unfortunately most are too young to have much in the way of offspring (see above) and the one that I adore in a Con which brings together two lines of Connemara’s that have produced both GP ponies and a line of European pony champions…
I did find a new pony that I had never heard of a grandson of Champion Deluxe that appears to be a super nice boy! His name is Clarence so I am looking into him too
I think I will set a date that I need to make a decision and perhaps have back up plan too.
Otherwise I will go in circles lol!
I also give breeders credit because how you do this year after year is beyond me - especially when we in the US don’t have the kind of databases they have in Europe re what kind of mare to breed to a stallion, etc etc.
If I remember correctly the mare herself would be an F1 cross–Hanoverian x TB hence you very well could get something more warmblood like or more tb like. Which is why pedigree research is important.
has some full-sibling pony crosses that don’t even look related IMO, let alone from the same exact pairing.
There are some stallions that do produce very consistently and others not nearly so and some that will never produce as good as themselves. Thats why its important to recognized production records—in other words its not all about what a stallion looks or moves like—but rather how they produce. I have a purebred Connemara and a partbred at home with me that look remarkably similar even though they are from completely unrelated mothers–one is a pony the other a horse. Standing side by side there is a definite unmistakeable family resemblance.
However, keep in mind this stallion is not the end product and your mare will bring a lot to the equation.
I had always thought so too till my 2010 filly arrived—she is very much more her fathers daughter than I could have ever predicted (and even more so as she is maturing)—and quite different from her other siblings in both size and type. I think she is quite similar in looks to others by the same sire—but even more so like her sire in looks/conformation and way of going. It will be interesting to see how she finishes–sometimes they do change–sometimes looking more like the sire, then more like the dam, then back again—but so far she is very much the image of her sire and seems to want to stay that way.
I have another part bred at home that shows A LOT of her mothers breed type/way of going but looks nothing like either sire or dam—she is however an enormous improvement over the mother in overall quality and riding type. She is a true F1 cross.
MBM faces several challenges in this breeding that I don’t envy her.
She has a maiden mare (so totally unknown what she will produce) that is an F1 herself (which are the most unpredictable in their output). That she is wanting to do another total outcross breeding.
For me I would go with the most established and predictable stallion in their output themselves and hope for the best. The stallion that consistently (or as consistently as you can get) produces the phenotype and movement that you are looking for. I would totally steer away from young stallions - that then totally throws the prospects of what you will get up in the air.
Then you hope that the tried and true stallion’s genes come thru as her mare is a total unknown for what she will contribute.
^^^^ and that is what i am realizing and why i am researching offspring… even tho there are some FAB young boys out there… i just dont want to take that chance - unless it was from really established lines…
not easy for sure!
btw: if i follow the logic above then my choices are quite limited… i can breed her to a full WB that is smaller (Ridley etc) or I can breed her to PB welsh or Con (or some other breed)… most of the GRPs are a cross of welsh/arab/TB/WB/etc and also horse and pony. It seems to me that that might be too much variability ?
So then i come to the conclusion of PB Connemara (Rory O’Sullivan whose grandfather’s on both sides sired upper level dressage ponies) or some other PB Con… or Ridley or similar to him…
Both of the above also have offspring old enough to be under saddle and Rory has many offspring and quite a few who are really nice ponies… I haven’t looked deeply into Ridley’s offspring but i know that his back breeding is good.
hmmmm
