Also, thanks to Linda / Greengate, for the very descriptive, easy to read article on foaling. Very well done.
… it is at times like this that I wish I had a husband handy.
I had 2 out of 2 mares have dystocias four years ago.
No. 1 - Foal already dead but mare could not expell it. Vet went home to get her truck and trailer and take my mare to the hospital to save her life. I didn’t have insurance on her. Final cost, $8500.
No. 2 - Insured this mare after no. 1 incident happened. With this mare, the cervix did not open. Long story short, vet was able to pull out the foal with obstetric chains, with the help of two men. I assumed the foal had died, since this had gone on for hours, but when the foal was pulled through, his eyes blinked. Vet assumed the mare would not make it. At one point, Lucy gave what I thought was a death whinny, and she jumped to her feet.
There was a heart wrenching foaling on MS just a couple of days ago, but they let the cam roll. It was difficult to watch (and I stopped watching when it became obvious nothing was happening). The owner explains on this thread, on page 38, what happened and what the vet tried.
He was a young tall man who was trying his hardest, used the chain, but the foal was breech and could not be saved. The mare is doing ok though. Luckily, she had a “gut feeling” and the vet was there during most of the labour.
It is really scary. Then there was the twin foaling the night before who was also quite educational and sad. The surviving twin is still doing ok with lots of care.
I do admire you all, breeders. This is NOT the faint hearted.
I have had several very minor dystocias over the years that I managed to resolve myself and one red bag where I was able to save the foal. However in 2008, I lost a mare and foal to a terrible dystocia. The foal presented upside down…not turning in a normal presentation but totally upside down. He was about to punch into the roof of the vagina when I examined the mare and felt the dystocia.
I was able to get her on her feet just once but was not able to keep her up as I was working alone at that point. I managed to turn the foal a bit after pushing him back in a bit but it was not enough before she went back down. My husband got out to help me as fast as he could and we tried to help the mare. She would not or could not get back on her feet. This was a 17 hand Saddlebred mare and working with her in that enclosed space turned out to be very dangerous. Once she went down that last time, we never could get her on her feet again which made resolving the dystocia even more difficult.
As the foal came out, I managed to turn him into a more normal presentation. We got his shoulders out and he was breathing but he would come no farther. At that point the mare got violent…really violent. In a fairly short time she cast herself and managed to kill the foal in her struggles…that’s how bad she was. It was impossible to help her and my husband got kicked so badly we thought he’d broken his arm…but it was a kick to the radial nerve and it was numb for days.
We found out later when a fetonomy was performed that a hind leg hung up in the birth canal. It took two vets, one doing anesthesia, and one working in the back to do anything with her. She died under anesthetic…probably bled out. That was one of the most gruesome and horrible things I’ve ever seen and it one of my mares ends up in that situation, I will shoot her before we get to that point. This was a client mare BTW…not mine. I was not calling the shots, the owner was present and did so.
I read later in Blessed are the Broodmares that I should have stopped and tried to get an arm in and to check for the hind leg coming up in that dystocia scenario. I think that is being VERY ambitious given the difficulty of doing that with a foal in the birth canal and a mare pushing and kicking. I did my best and I lost her. I think sometimes no matter how hard you try, you can’t save them.
[QUOTE=hluing;5546577]
I agree for sure about the plan A and B idea. After having an absolutely heart breaking dystocia 3 years ago…my plan B is always having my truck and trailer hitched up and ready to go during foaling season. I am only 20 min from a great vet hospital…so that is what I would do sooner rather than later.
My expereince was there was absolutely nothing myself, my husband, or my vet (when she got there) could do. That was eye opening to me. Foal presented head only with no forelegs. Huge foal. Absolute nightmare. Lost both the foal and the mare. Please do NOT under estimate dystocia. I have had ones that were easy to correct…but some are next to impossible.[/QUOTE]
We had one two years ago like this… our mare was saved. Just awful, my daughters first foaling.
Must be karma, my first foaling when I was 18 , we lost both our wonderful little arab mare and her foal. Two of the best vets in the area and two more farm helpers worked all night … lost the foal after an hour, tried to take it out by wire, …we finally had to let the mare go… never could get all the foal out.
Gah! This is a depressing thread!
Had one years ago…mare out in the pasture during the day, in the barn at night and just kind of hanging out, doing nothing. Looked out the window late afternoon and noticed her down in the pasture, sat up like a dog and back down. Ran to the barn to grab halter/lead and get her in and she was having none of it. Figured I’d wait until foal arrived and pack him to the barn and she’d follow. Foal nose but no feet so I pushed up sweatshirt sleeve and went fishing. Found both knees at pelvic rim…little bugger was trying to jump out. Couldn’t reach further with sleeve pushed up so took off the sweatshirt, hoping neighbors weren’t watching, and was behind mare and up to my shoulder in my bra…and getting cold. Got foal pushed back far enough to get upper leg forward and headed the right direction. Couldn’t get mare up or turned so was only able to hook fingers in the lower knee and try lifting as she pushed…worked. Tight fit even with a fairly small foal but he landed in my lap. Got him and mom to the barn and started her on PCN. Everyone was fine although I didn’t, obviously, rebreed the mare that year. Foal probably thought for the first couple of months of his life that his name was “Dammit” as that’s about all he heard for those 15 minutes or so of getting things rearranged. BTW…1/2 hour from vet assist IF he wasn’t out on another call and this was back in the day before cell phones…and it was me and two kids.
Yes, Karen Hayes mentions this, but as DDB mentioned, it sometimes just doesn’t work! With the breech, I knew something was wrong as soon as I put a hand it. I think it was only my 2-4th foal, so not alot of experience, but I knew it wasn’t right.
Called vet, who said “keep her moving”.
Yeah, good luck on that one…:no:
The mare went down and even with a dressage whip beating on her (which I felt terrible about, btw) she did not rise.
So how DO you keep them up when they want to go down?
Vet got there and couldn’t get her up either. Ended up doing an epidural and even then, it was a bear getting straps on the foal & getting it out.
BTW GREAT tip on putting the straps behind the back! NEver thought of that one. I didn’t realize till after the breech how much brute strength it took to get a foal out.
The one thing I wish my vet had stressed to me way back when was – “round up some STRONG help!!”
So even though the foal is still in the birth canal you tear through the membrane?
I realize that at that point the foal is still getting it’s oxygen/blood supply from the umbilical cord, but isn’t there danger the foal will inhale fluid?
Or is it simply picking the lesser of evils as in foregoing gloves (which I also do – although I wash really well prior to insertion).?
Seems to be the ‘take home message’ is:
- Check positioning early
- Have LOTS of strong help nearby
- Pray
I don’t think going to a vet clinic is an option in my case…WSU is 2 hrs away…
Ditto that.
As much as I love most of the aspects of breeding – choosing the sires, being the first one to welcome the new little ones into the world, and being the guiding influence in their lives (after mom of course) to the foals – I know my breeding days are numbered.
I’m older, my hands are getting weaker and weaker from arthritits and I’m alone about 40 mins from the nearest vet.
Probably just asking for trouble…
Heck, we’re over 2 hours from the nearest surgical clinic. Lots of luck getting a foaling mare to help in that time frame.
No they don’t always cooperate and stay on their feet while you reposition a foal. We tried everything and we believe that her backend became paralyzed. She did try to stand a few times when we did try to force her but she’d collapse back down.
It all happens very fast also and you have little time. Last, no one tells you how utterly exhausted you will be fighting a major dystocia. There are limits to what anyone can do physically and it requires a lot of strength.
Colorcowhorse…I just can picture you out there in your bra! Great way to Cowgirl up!
I was told by several surgical oriented vets later that the only likely way to have resolved that horrible mess we had that night with a happy ending…assuming you caught it early enough, was to have the mare at a clinic already, have someone anesthetize her immediately so she would not push or struggle, hoist her back end up, fill her full of lube, push the baby back in and reposition…then let her deliver. Ummm…not happening on any farm by lay people. If you have a valuable high risk mare, take her to a vet clinic for foaling where they are very capable and can surgically intervene if necessary.
I think foaling is about 90% luck and the other 10% bad luck. If you foal enough mares, the worst will one day happen. I almost quit after that night but had several more left that Spring and it was probably the best thing that I could have done…get right back in it. Now I’m only foaling my own Spanish Mustang mares and they are typically easy foalers and good mothers. Much less stressful for me.
Good luck with your baby. The odds are that things will be just fine. You can’t obsess of the “what ifs” or you’d never be foolish enough to breed a horse!
This happened to a friend of mine. Older lady, but tough as nails. Foal presented with both legs back at the knee.
With her roommate (another woman) she actually got that foal out, doing exactly as it’s been suggested – moving the foal side to side. “Walking” it o/o of the birth canal.
Even Dr. Tibary at WSU was VERY impressed.
I got there minutes after she got the foal out…and the problem was that the foals front legs were so contracted it could not straighten them at all – couldn’t even stand.
After all that work, the foal ended up being put down.
[QUOTE=Daydream Believer;5547595]
Colorcowhorse…I just can picture you out there in your bra! Great way to Cowgirl up! [/QUOTE]
Just fortunate that I was wearing one…things get a little casual out in the back of nowhere.
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[QUOTE=coloredcowhorse;5547670]
Just fortunate that I was wearing one…things get a little casual out in the back of nowhere.[/QUOTE]
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
Ah! The heck with it! There’s a life at stake! :winkgrin:
[QUOTE=Fairview Horse Center;5546219]
I was also given this tip after a particularly bad dystocia due to size. You can use straps on the foals legs, and put them around your back so your weight will add to the pull, without using your arms. Your arms wear out all too fast, and become useless rubber. Your body weight leaning back into the strap can be useful at that point.[/QUOTE]
I am having trouble visualizing this: can you explain exactly how to do that ?
I have been on foal watch and my brain is in really slow mo !
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;5547466]
So even though the foal is still in the birth canal you tear through the membrane?
I realize that at that point the foal is still getting it’s oxygen/blood supply from the umbilical cord, but isn’t there danger the foal will inhale fluid? [/QUOTE]
Yes, as soon as delivery begins, and you begin to see a foot. They don’t breathe until the chest clears the birth canal. As soon as I see a foot, I open the sack, check for the 2nd foot, and nose. Then I can breathe a bit easier. MUCH easier to fix a problem at this stage.
Seems to be the ‘take home message’ is:
- Check positioning early
- Have LOTS of strong help nearby
- Pray
Yes, bit I switch the order around a bit. 
[QUOTE=Elfe;5548100]I am having trouble visualizing this: can you explain exactly how to do that ?
I have been on foal watch and my brain is in really slow mo ![/QUOTE]
When you slip the straps onto each leg, you wrap the other end around your back, and to the hand to hold, so they are crossing on your back. Then your body weight holds traction and can pull. Arms are WAY to weak quickly when you have to really pull a foal.
What’s the going rate to foal out a mare these days?
Heck, most of the summer here I wear baggy loose shirts and no bra. When it gets 99F with 99% humidity, I find it MUCH cooler without one!
[QUOTE=hluing;5546577]
My expereince was there was absolutely nothing myself, my husband, or my vet (when she got there) could do. That was eye opening to me. Foal presented head only with no forelegs. Huge foal. Absolute nightmare. Lost both the foal and the mare. Please do NOT under estimate dystocia. I have had ones that were easy to correct…but some are next to impossible.[/QUOTE]
^^^^^^THIS!!! I will say that relatively simple dystocias (a leg back, legs crossed, a head turned) can usually be rectified fairly simply and easily. But, quite honestly, bad dystocias are an absolute, gut wrenching nightmare - to the point that I have one vet to deal with certain things and then I find the biggest, brawniest, testosterone influenced vet to deal with bad dystocias. Sometimes that’s exactly what it’s going to take to get a foal out <sigh>. And keeping a mare on her feet that wants to lay down? Nope…not gonna happen if she puts her mind to it, short of having some kind of hydraulic system and a sling. Fortunately, bad dystocias happen infrequently, but because they can be so incredibly horrific and heartbreaking, it’s one of the main reasons that we don’t foal out outside mares.
We keep OB chains, towels and an OB saw on hand for foalings. I’ve spent entire nights up with vets trying to manipulate foals. We’ve tranquilized the mare, hoisted her up by her hind legs with tractors in order to attempt to drop the foal back in and rearrange body parts - remember that!! It “can” be a huge life saver. If you have a tractor with a bucket on it, you can drop the mare and use the tractor to hoist her up. We’ve cut apart foals as a last resort to get them out. We’ve dealt with mares that absolutely will not push - uterine inertia - which, btw is one of the main reasons to avoid diving in the foaling stall and “helping” the mare by pulling that foal out. Some of those mares figure it’s easier letting someone else do the work and you end up with a mare that doesn’t bother pushing. Let me tell you, until you’ve dealt with that, you don’t have a full appreciation of just how much that mare’s pushing helps!!! Having a trailer hooked up to a truck is great - if there’s a surgical hospital or university close enough that can deal with a major problem AND if you can get the mare into the trailer in the first place :(.
I will offer one very small bit of advice that you can have your vet do should the need arise. In order to “push”, you have to be able to stop air flow (think of pushing to have a bowel movement and then try to make that same movement while continuing to exhale or inhale). By passing a trach tube, it prevents the mare from being able to stop the air flow to “push”. While uterine contractions can and will continue, she won’t be able to assist by pushing. Being able to stop that, even temporarily can be extremely helpful sometimes.
I will say that we’ve had some incredibly successful outcomes in really bad dystocias that no one would have believed was possible. But, we’ve also had some horrific experiences that didn’t have such favorable outcones. It “is” one of the main reasons that if there is any way possible, I will not miss a foaling. There aren’t too many things that ratchet up my stress level as much as the mere thought of a foaling dystocia. It truly is a gut wrenching panic moment for me. But also remember that fortunately, they happen pretty darn infrequently.
[QUOTE=Daydream Believer;5548488]
Heck, most of the summer here I wear baggy loose shirts and no bra. When it gets 99F with 99% humidity, I find it MUCH cooler without one! ;)[/QUOTE]
Oh heck yeah…don’t see guys wearing jocks all summer so why should I swelter?
only had it happen once in 12 years so far. Not something I care to repeat. Mare had a difficut labor and was in a very pissy mood and I could not get near her hind end til she was getting very tired. Finally saw feet…and no head. The head was turned back. Hubby was in the house but dead asleep and did not hear the phone ring for help. (now during foal watch he has to keep his cell phone ON and on his nightstand. He tends to turn if off to vibrate…which is no help in an emergency!) Once the foal was straight the mare was too tired to push and I had to pull the foal out the rest of the way. Foals are SLIPPERY. It is the hardest thing I have ever done and I was really beginning to think that I was not GOING to get that foal out. Somehow it all worked out and she was fine in the end…but scary times. My vet was amazed I had managed it alone by the tine he got here (45 min later). Frankly I was too.
