[QUOTE=Oakstable;5548358]
What’s the going rate to foal out a mare these days?[/QUOTE]
Does it matter? :lol:
Kathy, would you mind describing in a little more detail the use of the tractor loader to raise the rear of the mare? I am trying to visualize doing it without tissue trauma in the hoisting maneuver. Padding over the chains? Thanks.
Thanks for asking this Raffey1. I was going to ask the same thing.
I have a neighbor with a tractor & bucket, but we don’t have stuff like slings & such.
What sort of “easy to acquire” materials could we have on hand to do the deed in a case like this?
[QUOTE=raffey1;5549398]
Kathy, would you mind describing in a little more detail the use of the tractor loader to raise the rear of the mare? I am trying to visualize doing it without tissue trauma in the hoisting maneuver. Padding over the chains? Thanks.[/QUOTE]
Ugly to think about, isn’t it? And it’s something that you don’t want to consider doing lightly. We’ve done it twice with mares where nothing else was working, couldn’t keep the mares up and the option of a surgical suite was 5 hours away…that wasn’t going to happen either. Desperate times require desperate measures.
We used heavy cotton rope. Wrapped the legs with towels before putting the rope on and then used towing chains connected to the ropes. The trick was to distribute the rope so that it went around each leg a couple times and then crossed in the middle so that the weight was distributed over a larger area of the legs. The chain was then hooked over the tractor bucket and the mare was then lifted. We were able to lift the mares’ hindquarters a few feet off the ground, high enough the vet could stand and work on her. And, someone sat at the head of the mare with more drugs in case things started wearing off.
FWIW, on one of the mares, it was a breech with the rump of the foal up against the cervix. No hind legs available. The other mare the foal presented withers first. I could get my hands around the head and jaw, could get OB straps around the legs, but we absolutely could not get the head up and in line. I managed to get a strap around the upper jaw of the foal and even with the vet and I working, we could not get the foal out - this was the mare with uterine inertia. We lost the foals, but we managed to save both mares. It truly was a matter of no other choices available.
A highly published therio vet offered an interesting idea a few years ago is probably worth a go as a last ditch effort. To literally take a garden hose and to fill the uterus with water in an attempt to help “float” and move the foal around. We haven’t ever tried it, but I think if I was out of ideas and my options were down to the wire, I’d give it a go. Obviously, when you’re at this stage of a dystocia, you’re less worried about contamination and just trying to get the foal out. Deal with any infection later. With the above scenarios, I am NOT talking about something that is going to be easily remedied or if you have other options available. Literally I’m referring to putting the mare down as you are completely out of any other choices.
Have I mentioned that I absolutely HATE this topic?
Yeah, I’m kind of sorry I even started this thread…
HOwever, when it comes to “last ditch efforts” with the goal being to save the mare, isn’t dismembering the foal always an option?
Can you think of any situation when that would NOT be an option?
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;5550367]
Yeah, I’m kind of sorry I even started this thread…
HOwever, when it comes to “last ditch efforts” with the goal being to save the mare, isn’t dismembering the foal always an option?
Can you think of any situation when that would NOT be an option?[/QUOTE]
In the one case where we couldn’t get the foal’s head up and we were dealing with uterine inertia, we “had” dismembered the foal. No where near as easy as it sounds. And, you’ve got to be able to get the parts out that you’re removing…they’re not just going to pop out because they’re smaller necessarily. It’s always an option, so long as you have the equipment necessary to do it. But, you’ve also got to be able to get the wire around the part you wish to remove. And it is gruesome beyond belief. As noted previously, thankfully it truly rarely reaches that point.
Sometimes you can’t reach the part that needs to be removed - I had a mare with a foal that we cut off both front legs and opened the chest and abdomen to collapse it - still could not budge the hind legs( which was all that was in her by that point) put the mare down - turned out the hind legs were terribly contracted and would not have been able to be removed except by c section
Awful…
[QUOTE=Equine Reproduction;5549633]
A highly published therio vet offered an interesting idea a few years ago is probably worth a go as a last ditch effort. To literally take a garden hose and to fill the uterus with water in an attempt to help “float” and move the foal around. [/QUOTE]
We attempted this back in 2000, with a foal that was dead, presenting normal legs first, but head turned back. <I truly HATE trying to deliver a dead foal!!> We absolutely could not get the foal pushed back enough to get the room to reposition the head/neck. We worked on her for about 3-4 hours. We didn’t find that the water helped at all, but we were trying to float the foal back some.
This delivery is what I thought of when Kathy stated she wanted a burley, testosterone hyped man for dystocia deliveries. For the first 3-4 hours, my husband was not on the property, but when he came back, he wanted to try. Never underestimate the power of a determined man. We told him we were going to lose the mare too, and he was determined. The vet told him the foal could NOT be delivered poll first, but what did we have to lose?
He tried, and finally did succeed. The mare was strongly sedated and layed out at this time. We did have considerable bleeding from the mare, as previously, we also had by acccident, removed the foals lower jaw. 
That left some extremely sharp edges. When we examined the mare after, she was surprisingly not torn where we could palpate. She bled for a bit, then it stopped. We didn’t really know if she was bleeding out beyond were we could check, or if the bleeding was just from scraping the vaginal tract.
She was totally fine. We bred her back about a month later, and her foaling was totally normal.
Boy, I am learning so much… but this is a hard thread to read! After going through two and facing foaling season in a new place, more isolated than before… Im getting myself really anxious! Thank you all for sharing , hard memories Im sure, but I think this is the best of what COTH offers.
Have to agree that a strong man around is a must when a dystocia ocurs. I am very lucky mine is also a Vet. Had a mare present with the front legs upside down. Also was lucky he had not left for work just yet. He had to push the foal back in and the two of them went up and down several times until he could get the foal into position…I swear I heard it snap in place. He had to help her get him out and was not breathing either and had to deal with that. If he was not home I do not think I would have been able to that that by myself. He is very tall with very long arms as well and was able to get in there and manuever the colt. Would have probably lost the foal had I been on my own, as he was a big boy too (even now just shy of 16h at 1 y.o this month)!
YIKES, just YIKES. I am reading this thread and praying. Praying for myself as I have 4 more to go this season.
I have read all the books, looked at all the pictures, talked to all other breeders…and I still look at that little bubble, with one foot, another foot and head and say “thank you Lord for another good foaling” Hopefully when I see that part at least I know I am looking at good progress. WHEW…heaven help me for the rest of this season.
BTW…on MareStare I see where one farm has lost 3 of their first foals for this year. 
This is a gruesome thread, but also in (some odd way) comforting. The fact is, in some rare cases everyone can do everything possible and still not have a good outcome.
This is comforting to me, because I tend to blame myself if things go badly – saying “well, if I’d just done this or that or whatever.”
But listening to these stories I realize sometimes it just is as it is…:sadsmile:
On a (much needed) lighter note: I did a count of all the foals I have birthed on my place since I began…I think I have them all. Not that many – 28.
Of those I have only lost ONE foal to dystocia and that was the breech. Aside from this, I have never even had a mild dystocia.
In addition, I lost one foal to abortion (placentitis), one foal to what was probably dummy foal syndrome (died at 36hrs) and one had to be put down because of it’s extremely malformed legs.
So 2 foals o/o 28 were born dead, 1 died in the first 48 hrs. and 1 was put down at 4 weeks.
I have never lost a mare (knocking wood so furiously my walls are shaking).
I have no idea if these percentages are high, low or whatever, but in terms of dystocias, I guess I HAVE been pretty lucky…
I guess these are just the perils of horse breeding…but let’s all be thankful the odds for a good outcome ARE in our favor…
[QUOTE=Sugarbrook;5552076]
BTW…on MareStare I see where one farm has lost 3 of their first foals for this year. [/QUOTE]
From what?? Do you know? Now Im totally freaked about foaling this year… ahhhhhhhhh.
All three were MINI"S…do I need to say more??
I don’t know why I watch Marestare, but sometimes its so darn much fun (Glenhill !! ).
Well, there you go! Breeding minis must be like breeding English Bulldogs – they’ve boogered them up so badly in terms of conformation they’ve set themselves up for certain trouble.
Luckily, regular horses aren’t like that.
Slightly OT - but reading about all the horror stories have got my worry radar back up.
When I lost that foal two-years ago I was told by my vet that sometimes dystocias just happen for no particular rhyme or reason. When I asked if the mare was any more likely to have another dystocia in the future I was told “no.”
Is there any truth to this based on other’s experiences? Obviously I will be prepared for the worst either way but I might as well try to not worry so much in the meantime.
This mare had 8 textbook perfect foalings prior to losing the one. Now she is due to foal again next month. IS she any more likely to have troubles this next time around???
She is an older mare - 19. She is in excellent health and has had an easy pregnancy thus far. (But that went for the last time too.) She is not bred to a very large stallion so I anticipate a normal sized foal.
Know what you mean!:eek:
Others can answer this better than I, but from my experience the answer would be “No.”
My mare that breeched had had one foal prior with no issues and she had 2 more afterwards with no foaling issues. LEG issues, yes, but not dystocia issues.
No, IMO, dystocias have nothing to do with the mare. Darn foal has his job to do as well, getting himself aligned correctly towards the exit! Sometimes, it just doesn’t work for a variety of reason, one being just bad luck.
Thanks everyone. I felt that was probably true and I have no reason to question my vet but reading other people’s statements that attest to that same fact sure helps me feel better!
[QUOTE=TaliaCristianna;5553006]
Is there any truth to this based on other’s experiences? Obviously I will be prepared for the worst either way but I might as well try to not worry so much in the meantime. [/QUOTE]
Mmm…depends on the reason for the dystocia. With the mare that we dealt with that had uterine inertia? The previous year she also had uterine inertia. With three men pulling, we managed to get that foal out, and it was fine. No issues with the foal. Maiden mare. Figured it was a fluke thing. Following year, we had the malpresentation with the uterine inertia again. She was not bred again.
There’s always a caveat to everything, isn’t there <sigh>.
FWIW, the foaling we had on Saturday (yeah…yet ANOTHER boy <rolling eyes> ) was a mild dystocia. Head was down underneath the front legs, so had to work a little bit on that one. Finally got his lil’ head popped up where it belongs and everything went fine from there…well…other than needing three enemas to get things rolling (no pun intended 
)
