Ok scat experts, help me out here - Final Update - FERAL CAT

[endlessclimb]

Hey, I know you like to turn every thread into your own personal vendetta, but I’ve engaged you enough here.

Cats are horrible for the environment, and that’s a risk you are ok with - they are not some benign force that kills with humane methods. I don’t want cats because of their impact on native populations of MANY animals (not just intended targets), but also don’t want mice because it is not sanitary for the horses or myself - it has nothing to do with what’s cute, they carry disease and cause fires. Monitoring glue boards 2x a day is more than enough, when you consider that every mill you buy food and feed from monitors them once a week at max (and yeah, they use a LOT of glue boards and bait stations. Hundreds and hundreds of them, so you can have sanitary food and feed).

I do what I can to keep my barn sanitary. Your violin of “being humane” is really empty when you’re introducing a non-native species to do it your way. Cats don’t kill nicely or quickly. I’d have more ears for you if you were using JRTs or something, but we’ve all seen cats play with live prey before dispatching it.

Save me the crocodile tears about the glue boards and properly contained bait stations (you don’t even know what I use for bait and you still pulled that trigger to call me “shitty”), and make your own thread for your personal pet-peeves if it consumes you so much.

[trubandloki]

If you search the internet, you will see all kinds of great photos of foxes climbing things. Foxes are good at climbing.

[endlessclimb]

We have cameras all over the property, and have spotted all the other mentioned wildlife, but never a fox. Certainly not impossible though! Whatever it was jumped nimbly down the other side, nothing outside of what’s pictured was disturbed.

One particular feral cat makes a pass through just about every night, but has never been inside to my knowledge. At least, hasn’t made itself known like it did last night. My neighbors on all 3 sides also do not have cats they feed, so they’re not from close-by. I wish they wouldn’t come around at all, they upset our dogs when spotted.

[trubandloki]

@endlessclimb

We have cameras all over the property

Time to put on in the hay barn!

[endlessclimb]

I have one facing the other direction, but it’s pointed out so didn’t catch right at the wall. I can temporarily turn it around, until this mystery is resolved.

[Simkie]

Dude, you’ve got bait stations and traps out. Do you really find that a couple of glue boards put you that much ahead of your other efforts?

Trapped mice vocalizing on glue boards risks drawing other stuff, as you’ve seen here. Ditching the glue boards very well may reduce this type of visitor, because you’re not setting out a buffet that announces it’s there.

Just because other people do inhumane things doesn’t make it okay. You can choose to do better.

As for your judgement on my outdoor cat: I have one. He’s kinda elderly. He caught a couple baby swallows this summer but nothing else. I know, because he takes his meals back to the tack room and leaves parts for me. He used to rat, which was great, but doesn’t seem game for that anymore. He’s locked up at night and spends his days in the barn. The extent of his wandering is coming up to the house when I come in to get his dinner. The impact of cats is definitely a concern to me, which is why I occasionally trap & re-home stray cats on other people’s property, and pay attention to what my outdoor cat is doing & where he goes.

I have other cats, which are indoor only. Because, yes, cats can be awfully hard on wildlife. And wildlife around here is awfully hard on outdoor cats.

It looks like a hardware mesh apron and metal door sweep could go a long way to excluding rodents from this space of yours, so you can lean less on killing the ones that come in.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

I didn’t read through all the back and forth on the thread, only skimmed…

But I’m betting it’s a fox.

We’ve had multiple fox at two different farms over the last decade. They are interesting animals, and almost dog-like in some respects. They do sometimes poop in open, human dominated places… and it almost seems like a marking behavior. I’ve found fox poop in my barn aisle multiple times. And my driveway. And on flagstone paths. Also on my front porch. My boy dog peed on it (marking) once this fall when it was on the porch. Ugggh. We cleaned up the poop… but then guess what? Two mornings later… more fox turds. In the same spot on the porch.

At our last home, we used to routinely see a resident fox walking through our backyard via a big picture window we had. She (we knew that one was a female, as we saw her with kits a few times) hung out near a large firewood pile we had. We frequently found fox poop around that area on flagstone walkways. When we would let our old Labrador out to pee in the morning, half the time that dog would sprint right to the same firewood pile, sniff all around, and then pee there. Anyway, it was some sort of smelly little ongoing territorial thing between the fox and the dog.

So there you go - my anecdotal experience with foxes pooping and urinating around the barn and home, fwiw. They can be a quite strange about intentionally eliminating in an indiscreet way, as if they are declaring, “Haha. Foxy was here. This space is mine at night.”

Maybe the fox was excited about its little hunting escapade, and pooped to claim the related space.

[endlessclimb]

I catch about half my kills on glue boards, despite rotating snap trap bait. I move the boards to areas I see even an iota of activity or pinch points. So yeah, they’re useful and snap traps won’t fit the gap they’re filling.

You can’t hardware mesh apron or door sweep a barn with stone dust floors. It’s pointless when the doors themselves are 1" off the ground so they don’t freeze in position, and the dutch doors are wide open. Tell me how to fix that without spending 5 figures and I’ll buy you a cake. They’re coming in whether I like it or not.

And no, a board threshold is not an option - one must be able to drive heavy vehicles over what you suggest. I’d love to have overhead or roll up doors, but $$$. I’d love to have concrete so I can get the doors closer to the ground, but $$$.

[endlessclimb]

I’ll take a picture of where this was, and also take a closer look for footprints on anything dusty. It was too early to go prodding around and making a racket at 4am this morning.

I’d be shocked if it was a fox. We had a south wind last night and the freezer strips were CRACKING the side of the barn and each other. It was almost to the point where I thought about tying them back but decided not to.

Maybe - something will be in the live trap and put an end to the mystery once and for all.

ETA: The live trap is not big enough for a fox unless it really stuffs itself in there, it’s the possum/raccoon/cat sized one.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@trubandloki

If you search the internet, you will see all kinds of great photos of foxes climbing things. Foxes are good at climbing.

Yup. They can actually climb trees to a significant extent.

They are really cool animals.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

The fox around both our farms were very bold little animals. Not spooky about human noises at all. They are sneaky… but definitely get to know their surroundings and are smart about knowing what’s up.

Admittedly though, there were/are a TON of foxes living around both my properties. And they do seem to stake out territories for themselves. So maybe that is part of why they are so bold and comfortable with human dominated environments and structures.

[Simkie]

@endlessclimb

And no, a board threshold is not an option - one must be able to drive heavy vehicles over what you suggest.

I did this with a 4x6 at my MN barn and it held up fine to the huge skid steer the hay guys delivered my large square bales with.

It was not 5 figures.

[endlessclimb]

4" is too much, my trailer AC will hit the door header.

Plus, the mice will just burrow under it.

[Simkie]

Sigh. Right. The 4x6 was oriented with the 4" side up, and buried about 4 1/2" below grade. Perhaps an inch stood proud of grade. The goal was to provide a hard edge to hold the mats in the barn in place, provide a curb for the barn door to seal against, and prevent rodents from coming under the door. It did all of that. It did not cost five figures. Heavy equipment navigated it without difficulty.

It wasn’t just…laid on the ground.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@endlessclimb

Plus, the mice will just burrow under it.

Yup.

It’s hard to keep mice out of the house. They find tiny cracks/gaps to exploit.

If anyone is actually able to keep them out of their barn? Hat tip. I’m not able to keep them out of mine. Not a chance. And I have cats, black snakes and fox coming and going at will. Plus a dog who is in and out of the barn every day. But there is still one specific resident mouse who has shown up this winter as the weather has gotten cold. It seems to be in the corner of the aisle near where I store my hay and shavings bags. Probably built a nest underneath a pallet I use to keep stuff off the ground. The dog gets wild when he smells it and goes bananas. I then see a tiny brown thing scurrying fast for cover. Is what it is.

When the black snakes wake up in the spring? The mouse will leave the barn.

I just keep all food tightly stored in cans, and keep things pretty well swept and blown clear, and ignore the one little guy who seems to want to maintain a warm nest in my barn all winter. He’s not a big problem. Maybe the dog or a cat gets him before spring though… they’re certainly trying.

[endlessclimb]

I could try it here, but I’d bet that will frost heave. I can’t have my doors within an inch of the ground in the summer because of how high it heaves. Right now the small side door will not easily open because of the heave - there was daylight under the entire door in the summertime. Water table is high here.

Might be worth a try though. But… they will still burrow under. It’s a non-matted stone dust floor.

[endlessclimb]

Bingo. It’s a barn. Barn will have mice. I don’t have cats because I care about their environmental impact, so I personally have to do the legwork to keep them at bay, and I do. My horses’ health is more important to me than anything else. Period.

We take for granted the standards set for food and feed, but then don’t want to do what it takes to keep our hay as clean as we expect our grain to be. Hint: They aren’t using cats.

Bizarre.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

I’m an unapologetic unrepentant lover of barn cats.

But I understand where you are coming from.

If I fed a lot more hay (I feed a limited amount as I have a ton of pasture, even in winter) or had a more extensive mouse problem, I would put out traps. And have before. But so far this year, it seems to be a ‘Lone Ranger’ in my barn. So Fievel can hang out for now. At least as far as I’m concerned.

The dog on the other hand… nope. He’s on a mission to kill Fievel.

Photo of Fievel. For levity.

[endlessclimb]

I had one that got stuck in a muck bucket. I took pity on the little fuzz ball and released him in the pine trees up front.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

You softy.