Ok, young hunter trainers

[Alterration]

@mmeqcenter

Well, you would be wrong.

In central Ohio alone I know of at least four barns that do exactly that.

I find this improbable. Just because you don’t see horses in the fields doesn’t mean they stay locked up in a 12x12 stall and never have any exercise. I hear the same thing lobbied at Saddlebred barns all the time and it’s not true. They don’t go out in the field, no, but they do get plenty of exercise and stimulation.

However, your comment was specifically addressing the 30 horses on 5 acre phenomenon, which is what I was referring to. On 5 acres, you don’t have huge fields TO turn out into.

I think what you’re seeing with those large barns that have huge fields is a resistance to having the horses get hurt in pasture accidents which is a very different kettle of fish. When a top hunter costs as much as my whole farm, I can see why owners bubble wrap them. I don’t agree with it, but I understand it. I can also understand the pressure a trainer is under to keep that horse bubble wrapped. They can’t show injured, and owners are quick to yank horses into another program if they think a trainer has been “negligent”.

[Alterration]

@enjoytheride

I also know of some local barns that don’t turn out their show horses. They might get 30 minutes in the indoor, hand grazing, or supervised turnout in a small paddock but the big pastures are empty.

Right - which was NOT what I was addressing. They still get exercise. Just not in big pastures. My second comment explains why and why it might be understandable.

I’m not advocating for it. I’m just saying, I can understand it. OWNERS drive this particular cluster, not trainers.

[enjoytheride]

My horses are out 24/7 March to November then out 12 hours a day. Because I have fatties I keep one field grazed down. Does it look nice from the road? No. But turnout is important.

[mmeqcenter]

@Alterration

I find this improbable. Just because you don’t see horses in the fields doesn’t mean they stay locked up in a 12x12 stall and never have any exercise

Oh cool good to know you know more than what I saw with my own eyeballs for years.

The 30-stalls on five acres are the barns I know that don’t turn out at all. Some might, at most, let them out one hour a day twice a week. And no, they don’t have other enrichment activities. No, they don’t have hot walkers. No, they don’t get ridden every day. But you know. Do you.

[vxf111]

Interesting. I am completely unfamiliar with this product. Does this hay stay “fresher” longer or shorter than traditional hay? Is it the kind of thing you could stockpile? It seems like it takes up less space and maybe has more waste, but since it’s more processed it loses nutrition faster?

And (not responding to you directly) to clear up a term I used a few times that I intended to mean something different than how it’s being read by some. I use the term “turnout on grass” as being something that is not a dirt pen/dry lot. I don’t necessarily mean that there is edible grass 24/7 all year long or that the grass is capable of feeding the horse without any supplementation. I just mean turnout in an area that has whatever forage grows in the area so there’s a natural reason for the horse to move around throughout the day grazing. I don’t literally mean maintained so there’s grass 100% of the time. It’s probably not the clearest term the way I use it but when I say “turnout on grass” I mean “not on a dry lot.”

[Alterration]

@mmeqcenter

The 30-stalls on five acres are the barns I know that don’t turn out at all. Some might, at most, let them out one hour a day twice a week. And no, they don’t have other enrichment activities. No, they don’t have hot walkers. No, they don’t get ridden every day. But you know. Do you.

Oh ok - so the owners pull them out once a month and don’t get dumped by insane horses who have been in a stall 24/7. Maybe they drug them too. All day every day! Ooh, or beat them with sticks to keep them from killing their owners.

God, the attitude is just pathetic. The holier than thou is going to kill this industry more than anything else. But you know, do you.

[lenapesadie]

I dunno. But even in my not the big city area there are barns where folks decided that 30 horses on a ten acre farm was the right choice for business reasons. Maybe the horses get turnout every day but it’s in crowded dirt pens mostly. The horses are rideable mostly. Lesson ponies being ridden most days if not multiple times a day. Maybe it’s close enough to downtown to encourage lesson kids or whatever. But it’s for sure a sacrifice the horses are making so that some folks don’t have to make inconvenient choices.

[mmeqcenter]

@Alterration

Oh ok - so the owners pull them out once a month and don’t get dumped by insane horses who have been in a stall 24/7. Maybe they drug them too. All day every day! Ooh, or beat them with sticks to keep them from killing their owners.

Yeah, they lunge them for an hour before getting on. But hey, you know more than peoples actual real-life experiences. I guess my holier-than-thou eyes deceived me for a decade.

[mmeqcenter]

Hmm IDK if it stays “fresh” any longer or shorter than regular bales, actually, I never thought about it. They’re typically used exclusively in pastures/paddocks. I tried one time to feed “flakes” off of one (when I first moved to Florida). I had to use an ice pick to get chunks off, what a huge PIA.

They store pretty well. But in Florida, IME people don’t stock-pile hay like they do further north. I have many friends in Ohio that get their supply once a year for the entire year. It’s just too humid down here to do that, probably even with these blocks. But, a big benefit of the block is that, because it’s compressed, when they get rained on, the rain can’t penetrate more than half an inch or so, so they don’t get moldy and unusable like round bales do if left outside uncovered. If they’re covered in a hay hut or something while the horses are eating it, I see almost no waste. If they’re just out in the paddock with a cover for them to eat, they may waste the bottom inch from it sitting on the ground for too long (if it takes them a couple weeks to eat it), but I think that’s typically still less waste than I’ve often seen with rounds. And if there’s enough horses on a block that they eat it pretty quickly, there’d be no waste even without cover.

Fair point about giving the horses a reason to move around all day out in a paddock.

[Atlas_Shrugged]

At my 130 acre private farm in CT we have the seasonal fly issue. My 3 show horses of varying ages go out together on grass unless they start to run around too much, then dry paddocks with fresh hay and water, then are ridden and turned back out loose after their rinse to dry, then “to bed” in re-cleaned stalls with fresh water and soaked hay. The flies in the summer, especially the B-52 bombers that were not around when I was a kid, as well as the little flies with “teeth”, make them crazy. I cart manure away regularly, give them feed-through fly killer, fly spray them and add masks, as well as scrims if not sweltering heat. I leave the indoor open if they want shelter. One horse did kick my 4yo gelding in the “shin” and it had to be shock-waved 4 times (no bone injury, thank God). That was my greatest fear, and the reason I stand guard whenever they are loose together in the grass fields. Winter, they get snow studs. Barn has radiant heat, but they need to be acclimated to cold weather because I sometimes show the “Icicle Circuit”. Friends tell me 24/7, or at least nightly turn-out in winter is best, but I haven’t the nerve, especially with the variety of wildlife sharing the property (coyotes, foxes, bob cats, bears, damn O’possums). I live on the property and find myself zipping up and down our steep driveway from house to barn throughout day and night to regularly check on my horses’ welfare, but this style of management keeps me home sometimes for 4 or 5 days at a time (I am retired, my husband is not). It is a labor of love for me that I tend to on a hour by hour basis. I envy those who have found an easier, healthy solution to this ongoing devotion- those who have found an easier solution. So I very much enjoy following this post. No haters, please ?!

[enjoytheride]

@Alterration

Oh ok - so the owners pull them out once a month and don’t get dumped by insane horses who have been in a stall 24/7. Maybe they drug them too. All day every day! Ooh, or beat them with sticks to keep them from killing their owners.

God, the attitude is just pathetic. The holier than thou is going to kill this industry more than anything else. But you know, do you.

I don’t know what your problem is. If you’ve never seen a barn where the show horses don’t get turned out and get lunged to death or drugged or the pro has to ride them first so the owners can ride them, then consider yourself lucky. THAT is what is killing the industry.

[Alterration]

I’ve been in this business for 35+ years and I’ve never seen anyone longing for hours before anyone gets on except at shows. I’ve ridden at barns across the country. All have had some program, whether it be turnout, extra exercise, treadmills, hot walkers etc.

I find your definitive “this is how it’s done” to be somewhat unbelievable, given my extensive experience as well as talking to numerous trainers and barn owners through the years. I’ve also seen people make assumptions about other people’s horse care in droves.

Again, I like turnout and my horses are turned out as much as humanly possible, but I despise the “anyone who doesn’t do as I do is a horse abuser” mentality I see in our community and I also hate the fact that we don’t think in systems.

So sorry you seem to be personally offended by the idea that our two experiences would conflict. There are bad seeds everywhere, but what I find more often than bad seeds are misunderstood seeds, hence my comment.

[lenapesadie]

Or even limited turnout for “pleasure” horses that then mysteriously have all sorts of issues resulting in “that ammie is over horsed” when a good portion of (not all of course but a good portion) issues could be resolved with more / better TO.

[mmeqcenter]

@Alterration

So sorry you seem to be personally offended by the idea that our two experiences would conflict. There are bad seeds everywhere, but what I find more often than bad seeds are misunderstood seeds, hence my comment.

No dear, I’m not personally offended that we’ve had different experiences. I’m annoyed by your insistence that my experiences are just incorrect and didn’t actually happen. I’m so glad you’ve visited every single barn in the country. I guess my first 30 years on this planet were in a simulation.

I’m done discussing this with you.

[mmeqcenter]

People talk so much about Florida’s bugs, but I will die on the hill that they are far worse up north. In Ohio, for all of August you almost can’t walk while riding or you’ll get dived on my B-52 bombers. I’ve seen zero of those here in Florida.

[Ponyplusaninch]

Well now I’m SUPER curious to know who these are since this is where I live. Thankfully my barn doesn’t do that, albeit when we get hit with ice or flash flooding we’re sort of SOL for turnout. Then it’s a lot of toys and hand walking in the indoor.

I also have to agree with you about the bugs–I was floored how bad they were when I moved here. Never had bugs this bad in GA even. I don’t get it. My horse looks ridiculous dressed up in his fly gear but it’s all we can really do to keep them off of him and give him decent turnout.

[millerra]

It seems like some are arguing the worst case scenario in comparison to the “best of the best” - turn out in idyllic green acres lush with grass.

To be honest, my horses probably have the “idyllic life style” where they are turned out 20 hours a day, in for only their individual feed and then back out to a pasture w/ grass, a large run-in w/ fly sprayers and fans. Ideally, they would wander, keeping fit and trim and in the best of gut health, grazing all the time - and that would be a great big Ha Ha - no they don’t.

Reality - November to April - snow, maybe some mud and NO grass - period. They live on round bales. They rarely move from their round bale, based on foot prints. Literally - they have paths. They do not wander off their paths. And no, I’m not going to spread their hay around thinking that’s going to give them more exercise. That’s like saying I got exercise by walking from the living room to the kitchen.

June - Aug - they hide in their run-in. IF - big if- it gets cold enough at night to stop mosquitos, they may go out to graze in the night. Otherwise, hanging out at the hay bale and waterer. Based on their manure piles, they maintain their circle around the hay bale, alternating between munching and sleeping. I will not take their hay away. That would lead to very unhappy, skinny horses.

In summary, I honestly don’t think they do much more than stalled horses, about 10 months out the year… OTOH - they really do like their turnout and when it’s time to go out, they like to… they have the freedom to run around an be knuckleheads if they so choose.

I guess I’m saying - stabling horses for long periods of time with exercise probably isn’t as horrific as some are making it out to be… based on the behavior of my little herd.

[endlessclimb]

Here’s an example near me. MASSIVE facility that I drive past nearly every day, at various times of the day. Very ritzy.

Never have I ever seen a horse turned out. EVER.

[lenapesadie]

@millerra

In summary, I honestly don’t think they do much more than stalled horses, about 10 months out the year… OTOH - they really do like their turnout and when it’s time to go out, they like to… they have the freedom to run around an be knuckleheads if they so choose

It’s the freedom to choose that many say is the difference between TO and a stall / small pen.

[millerra]

Agreed - just not sure that that difference is enough for the pearl clutching (not necessarily on this thread) seem to occurs when discussing stalled horses. Of course, this is assuming that horses get some form of outlet, preferably more than 1X per day (says the person who ends up hand walking their pony at least 2X per day when at show)