Old Dog Problems- Update post 65

[Beckham03]

I have never run into that. Have the new vet call and asked them to be faxed there for the appointment. I know my vets will flip through the file real quick, then tell me to fax it. The only thing we take out is irrelevant jibberish…like some phone calls, etc, but we send all labwork and exams.

Did you get a chance to call any of the internists and ask what they charge for an initial consult? An internist may be able to give you more answers based on their exam and the labs you have. I still think an ultrasound would be a good idea.

ETA: How is his capillary refill time? Does he look pale at all?

[Milocalwinnings]

Update? Sort of…

So I took him to the vet who was recommended to me as seeing geriatric dogs. I was super impressed. She spent over an hour with me and Bo.
Upon reading his records and asking me various questions about his history and what’s happened in the last few weeks, she said that if he had presented with those symptoms that were initially diagnosed as vestibular by the other vet, she would have diagnosed it as a stroke. She said that she’s fairly confident in that diagnosis after seeing that the incontinence, loss of appetite, and depression happened after that event. She didn’t see anything on the x-rays or bloodwork that would make her suspect cancer.

She basically said that if it were her personal dog, she would just treat each individual symptom and try to maintain quality of life… she put him on Proin for the incontinence as it has less side effects than the estradiol, and metacam for his back/arthritis. She said that she has seen one other dog with a stroke who went completely off his food and never really went back on it. Her suggestion was to continue with the grilled chicken and add some green beans and brown rice if he’ll eat it. My dog will be eating better than I do… sigh.

So, I don’t know if it’s the answer to our problems, but I certainly felt that she took more of an interest and that she was fairly confident in her opinion. I felt like the other vet was just trying to get in and out with us, and was only doing testing because I kept prodding. We’ll see how things go. I’m not holding my breath but I feel a little better now.

I didn’t contact an internist but the vet said she could send me to one at MS State if I would rather go that route. It’s an option I’ll keep in mind, however, it’s going to be difficult to go that route since it’s a few hours from me and I’ve got class every day that I really can’t afford to miss. We’ll see how things progress.

It’s kind of funny, I’ve always said I would never feed my dog “people food” and used to get annoyed if my dad would slip him or any of our other dogs a bite of his snack. Now he’ll be eating people meals…

[Beckham03]

Dogs can/do recover from strokes. Has anyone given him anything to release pressure in the brain if a stroke is suspected? Has his blood pressure ever been taken? Some older dogs get hyper tensive, which can cause the stroke, but you can do meds to control the hypertension. If they suspect a stroke, I suggest a neurologist to keep things under control to try to prevent another. I am glad you like this vet.

[SquishTheBunny]

If she suspected a stroke, I would assume she would have discusses aspirin or heparine use with you? What about his blood pressure? These are very important if one really does suspect a stroke. Hypertension is relatively easy and very cheap to treat (based on the fact that its not renal based on his blood results), and if he indeed did have a stroke and has hypertension, there are ways to make him better

Treating the “anorexia” is masking the acutal problem, but symptomatic treatment of it is very important. A blood pressure doesnt cost anything, and should really be included on your geriatric exam. You would think at SOME point along all your vet visits, someone would have done this!

All our exams consist of physical, ECG and blood pressure. I think too many clinics skip these vital bits of information.

[Milocalwinnings]

If it’s not one thing, it’s another…

Bo’s been doing well the past couple of weeks since starting him on the chicken and rice diet. He has lost a little weight but I wasn’t too alarmed about it. I’ve noticed a little more weekness than what I used to see in his hind end and he seems stiffer/more sore in his back but I’ve been keeping an eye on it. I’ve noticed some small focal seizures (or at least from my research that’s what they look like) which he has an appt for later this week but hopefully will be going in tomorrow (see below).

Friday he vomited twice (mostly just whole amounts of food) and had loose stool. Thought maybe it was just an upset stomach. Saturday I was gone for a lot of the day but he had liquid stool. Not solid whatsoever. I have not noticed any blood in it. Today it’s still squirty liquidy and he’s vomited a couple of times. Vets today are closed (of course… everything always happens on a weekend or holiday, right?) except for emergencies. The vet practice I’ve been using rotates on call doctors with three other practices in the county, one of which being my old one. It’s my luck that the guy on call today is the a$$ who is the one vet I absolutely can not stand. He said to give him immodium and bring him in to my normal vet tomorrow.

Keeping my fingers crosed that this isn’t going to turn into an expensive diagnosis/treatment. I’m seriously considering discussing euthansia :(. Partly because I am running out of money (I’ve spent almost $800 so far for his other problems last month, which was hard since I was a college student but I was prepared for it with an emergency fund), and partly because, IMO, if you are sick more often than not, what kind of quality of life is that?

Send some jingles for us please.

[BuddyRoo]

Milo-

You know I LOVE dogs and I totally get having a dog who is part of your family.

I would call the vet you like tomorrow and discuss. Anti-emetics aren’t that pricey but I think you need to decide now…like today…what you’re willing and able to do financially, medically and day to day care wise moving forward.

They can ultrasound, radiograph, do more bloodwork, etc. But is HE happy? Can you really DO this without putting yourself in a bad situation? The boarding thing in Nov is a big deal too.

I honestly believe that were I in your shoes at this point, I would work with the vet you like to find a combo of meds that might keep him comfortable, but be prepared that euthanasia is in the near future. Before Thanksgiving.

He can’t feel good about making messes in the house. And he just plain doesn’t FEEL good physically either. If it were me, I’d see what I could do to get him comfy, spend a week loving on him, and be ready to let him go.

I’m really sorry to say that. But every pet has a limit as to what makes sense for them. Your guy doesn’t tolerate hospitalization well, you’re running out of money…I think it might be time honey.

I had to put down my BuddyRoo (horse) even though he was eating well, happy, etc…but we just couldn’t manage his arthritis well anymore. I wanted to let him go before the bad days outnumbered the good. I felt like that was my duty to him. It totally freaking sucked for me. There’s not a February rainy day that goes by that I don’t think of that day. But I think I did the right thing. They don’t get it when they’re sick and feel like crap. And if the prognosis isn’t good? Enough. Enough.

((hugs))

Have you ever watched this thing that was put together on COTH a few years ago?

http://specialhorses.org/thisItBeRight.html

If not now…later, watch it. And know that we all get it. ((hugs))

[Milocalwinnings]

[QUOTE=BuddyRoo;6649133]
Milo-

You know I LOVE dogs and I totally get having a dog who is part of your family.

I would call the vet you like tomorrow and discuss. Anti-emetics aren’t that pricey but I think you need to decide now…like today…what you’re willing and able to do financially, medically and day to day care wise moving forward.

They can ultrasound, radiograph, do more bloodwork, etc. But is HE happy? Can you really DO this without putting yourself in a bad situation? The boarding thing in Nov is a big deal too.

I honestly believe that were I in your shoes at this point, I would work with the vet you like to find a combo of meds that might keep him comfortable, but be prepared that euthanasia is in the near future. Before Thanksgiving.

He can’t feel good about making messes in the house. And he just plain doesn’t FEEL good physically either. If it were me, I’d see what I could do to get him comfy, spend a week loving on him, and be ready to let him go.

I’m really sorry to say that. But every pet has a limit as to what makes sense for them. Your guy doesn’t tolerate hospitalization well, you’re running out of money…I think it might be time honey.

I had to put down my BuddyRoo (horse) even though he was eating well, happy, etc…but we just couldn’t manage his arthritis well anymore. I wanted to let him go before the good days outnumbered the bad. I felt like that was my duty to him. It totally freaking sucked for me. There’s not a February rainy day that goes by that I don’t think of that day. But I think I did the right thing. They don’t get it when they’re sick and feel like crap. And if the prognosis isn’t good? Enough. Enough.

((hugs))

Have you ever watched this thing that was put together on COTH a few years ago?

http://specialhorses.org/thisItBeRight.html

If not now…later, watch it. And know that we all get it. ((hugs))[/QUOTE]

I know you’re right, as much as it sucks to say it.
It’s a big deal for him to go to the bathroom in the house. He just. doesn’t. do. it. I keep telling him it’s ok and that he’s a good boy because he looks like he knows he wasn’t supposed to do it and I don’t want him to think I’m mad at him.

I discussed with my mom who supports my decision either way. Obvioulsy he’s my dog and my choice but she’s dealt with euthanizing our family dogs when they were ailing and she said that you’ll know when it’s time. They just get this look in their eyes.

I think it’s a good idea to decide today, before we see the vet tomorrow, what I’m willing to do for him. It’s easier to make a concrete decision point when you are on the outside than it is when you are actually there with the vet and they are offering all sorts of (temporary) solutions.

Honestly, I think it’s time. I sit here looking at him and he clearly doesn’t feel well. As I think back on the past month, he’s had more bad days than good. Looking at pictures and video of when I got him and seeing him now, I can see how much he’s deteriorated.

He is a once in a lifetime dog… I’ve never had another like him. I decided to take a chance on him as a stray and I’m so glad I did. I know that I’ve done everything I can for him, more than what some people would. I don’t know what his life was like before I got him 3 months ago, but I can confidently say that he’s had a great life for these last 3 months.

In the end, it’s not about the money. I’d figure out a way to make it work if it was reasonable and meant he would be happy and comfortable for more than a week at a time. Quality of life has always been my biggest concern.

He’ll go through the McDonalds drive through, have some chicken nuggets and a cheeseburger, and get lots of kisses and “good boy”'s. I know in my heart that it’s time and it’s not fair to him to keep pressing on.

And now I’m crying. Oh jeeze.

[BuddyRoo]

((hugs)) I am so sorry. You’ve got my number if you want to talk it through a bit more. But I really think that especially given the fact that he isn’t a happy camper, asking him to go through a whole lot more at his age, with his temperment, etc, might not be the most fair thing.

It’s always hard. Always. Unless you’re fairly heartless. The vet I used to work for told me before my first experience being in the room assisting with a euth when I asked how he felt about doing it “The day this gets really easy, I should probably retire.”

It’s just not easy.

I know you’d find the money. It’s not just the money. Although that is a sufficient reason and even if it weren’t, it’s not like you haven’t gone above and beyond.

It’s about the quality of life. It just doesn’t sound like he’s having a lot of good days.

Thinking of you lots. I was really scared i was going to be in your shoes this week. I’ve been there and it sucks. But we dodge the bullet this week. Next time, maybe not and you’ll have to talk me down.

When I lose my heart dog, I’m going to be a wreck for awhile. Everyone knows it.

You do what you think is right with the information you have at the time and no one can really fault you.

I wish you wisdom and peace.

((hugs))

[Beckham03]

I am so sorry. You have done right by him and making this decision is hard…but you are doing what is best for him. It sucks so bad; I know. ((Hugs)), whatever you decide is best.

[SquishTheBunny]

Its an unfortunate reality that often times finances decide the fate of our pets. I completely sympathize, its never an easy decision to quit without an actual diagnosis, but you also cant put yourself into major financial stress.

Im sorry, and McDonalds is how I would want to go out too!

[Guin]

Milo, I don’t have any advice. I have an old dog who is increasingly crippled by hip degeneration. It’s one day at a time pain management for us. My vet will do in-home euthanasia and my greatest fear is to leave it so late that it will be an emergency and we’ll have to bring him somewhere unfamiliar and scary. I’m really sorry.

[Milocalwinnings]

Update!

Bo saw the vet first thing Monday morning. We opted not to do a bunch of tests because the vet said his treatment would likely be the same. He put him on metronidazole, doxy, and Pro-pectalin. He also sent us home with some canned science diet I/D. I’m not normally a science diet fan but I/D was beneficial to our other dog when she was very sick with pancreatitis and hemorrhagic gastroenteritis. I was glad tgat he decided he would eat it. I discussed my boarding concerns and he referred me to a tech who often brings geriatric boarding dogs home… So that is a relief if he is still here by then. We discussed euthanasia and I stated that I was willing to try treatment but that if this didn’t work or if he still was not looking happy then I would have to strongly consider euthanizing.

By day two the meds had made a huge difference. Normal stool and a dog who looked like he felt much better.

Now, it’s even more incredible. This dog used to look depressed or lethargic some says. The past few days have been remarkable. He is running around, he acts happy and excited when I come home or take him for a walk, trying to play with my roommates boyfriends dog (I’ve never seen him do that). And, HE IS EATING DRY FOOD! He is acting like he is starving now and eats everything I give him. I had been giving him the canned ID only but discovered he would eat dry again after he started eating the BF’s dog’s food.

I still have euthanasia in the back of my mind. If I had to leave him in a kennel I probably would heavily consider it. If he continues to act like this and show improvement though, and I have a house for him to go lined up, I may hold off. He literally doesn’t act like the same dog I’ve seen the past 6 weeks.

[StGermain]

That’s wonderful, Milocalwinnings! I’m so glad he’s perking up!

StG

[BuddyRoo]

THat is GREAT news!

[Laurierace]

Wow! I hope you both can enjoy this quality time without too much worry.

[Beckham03]

That is great news!!!

[Horse_with_No_Name]