One Rein Stop

[Auventera_Two]

Why do I want my horse to eat along the trail??? I pass through some large corn fields and the stalks are right there in his face and he doesn’t touch them. As for drinking he drinks out of alot of the puddles along the way and the bit is not problem. Drink yes, eat no.
If I want to stop and graze him I will slip the pit and tie the neck rope I always carry on the back of the saddle to one hind leg.

I ALWAYS want my horses to eat and drink along the trail. I guess you’re the first endurance rider I’ve ever encountered who says that’s a bad thing?? The mentors I’ve taken instruction from have all told me it’s very important to let the horse eat when she feels she needs to. Obviously there’s a difference in grabbing a bite on the run and letting the horse just stop and graze for 3 hours. It’s even in the endurance riding books, and rider’s manual to encourage the horse to eat and drink along the trail when possible.

Remember that I’m trying to develop a 100 mile horse, and my goal is to be a 100 mile rider. We’re years off from that yet, but everything I do with her NOW while we’re in LDs will be carried with her forever. If I put a big bit in her mouth and pull her head up every time she goes for a bite of grass, she will learn it’s not acceptable to eat along the way, and I don’t want that! She is VERY good at grabbing the tops off swamp grass as we trot by it, and I think that’s excellent. I would never discourage her from doing that. It keeps the gutt moving and gives the horse energy along the way. From the ride book:

Pay the utmost attention to maintaining hydration and gut motility before worrying about boosting energy. Assuming your horse is fit for the job at hand, a well-hydrated horse with ongoing gut motility will outperform a dehydrated and colicky horse every time, regardless of the amount of “rocket fuel” on board. Plan your day so that your horse can snack his way throughout the ride, rather than exercise nonstop and then eat only while at vet checks. Take the opportunity whenever possible to stop for a few minutes of grazing along the trail or carry a few pounds of hay with you between vet checks. Doing so will help avoid dehydration, maintain good gut motility and thereby maintain energy and performance.

Maybe you can, but I cannot stop and dismount and untack my horse every time I want her to graze for a few minutes. I like to stay in the saddle and let her grab bites along the way, or just stop for a minute or two while she eats, then carry on.

[sublimequine]

[QUOTE=Shadow14;3154712]
Why do I want my horse to eat along the trail??? I pass through some large corn fields and the stalks are right there in his face and he doesn’t touch them. As for drinking he drinks out of alot of the puddles along the way and the bit is not problem. Drink yes, eat no.
If I want to stop and graze him I will slip the pit and tie the neck rope I always carry on the back of the saddle to one hind leg.

Alot of the times I get one chance to fix someone’s problem. I don’t get days, don’t want day’s. One ride and it will be corrected.
Road a barn sour horse, an everter with a very successful carrer and mid 20’s rider. The horse suddenly went sour and she couldn’t correct it.
In despiration she asked me to do it.
Good bit, good spurs and riding crop I hate carrying. I let her have my horse.
Went about 100 yards off the property and the horse reared and spun and broke for home at a run. He got about 20 feet and I set him on his rump, hauled him around, jabbed the spurs , hit with the crop and helled all as one. He leaped forward in the direction we were originally going and at a walk almost immediately. Tried it again in another couple of hundred yards.
Went to try it again after a few miles but he changed his mind and was really good.
I have very gentle hands, gentle Q’s, very soft but back them up with authority with either the spur or the bit.
I use to work rental horses sunday mornings. you had a problem I took the horse out and fixed it… It usually doesn’t take long.
I worked dogs for 12 years and dominated all obidience trials where ever I went and put 13 titles on Lance, he was also featured to a week at a sportsman show.
I don’t believe in loosing your temper but I do believe in setting a horse or dog straight.
I shoe horses on the side and the owners all give me permission to teach their horses manners while being shod.
If you look at someones horse and envy it’s manners, it’s training why not follow the advice of that trainer???
Vickey I believe in training, like I said early every day for 2 years, intensive training but at the end I better have a fixed horse.[/QUOTE]

A2 is an endurance rider. If you’re out on the trail for the entire day or something, having a horse eat is probably a GOOD thing.

As for using a large bit and hauling back to fix a runaway, I’m all for making a horse safer and giving it a good ‘whoa’, but that method wouldn’t work on all horses. I can basically guarantee you’d flip my horse right on over if it was tried with her. Then again, she’s got a whoa on her, isn’t the “runaway” type, and is trained to be light in the face. So that point is moot. :o

I do agree with you though on the bigger bit + softer hands. I actually don’t care to ride my mare in a sidepull because for us, I find it lacks finesse and my cues have to be “louder”. Put her in the “big hack”, which is the typical western mechanical hack, and I can give 100% of my cues with the twitch of a finger. So it’s not really a BIT per se, but it goes with the bigger bit + softer hands theory. :lol:

[Shadow14]

Vickey I wish I had not house cleaned last year. I through out my score cards, dozens and dozens of trophies and all paperwork related to both horses and dogs. I might still have Lance’s passport?
Anyway I only ran 50’s , one 60 and one 65 but got straight A’s in most things.
My horse in a 50 never had time to eat and grabbing a little snack on the way was more bother then it was worth. Drinking is another thing altogether and both Strider and Shadow know they can suddenly swing off the trail and grab a drink from a puddle but never touch foot.
Every 12 -15 miles in a 50 there is a gate, a vet check where you have 1/2 hour, that is the place for the horse to eat, not on trail. never on trail.
If I have time to let him eat then do it properly , not snatches of food along the way.
The very first ride I was introduced to was in 1989 at Crosshill, I entered my big jumper in the 25 mile run and won it effortlessly and got a Best condition , yes they gave one out for the 25.
Won it the next year too with I believe Titan??? or Echo???
That got me hooked and I sold my big 16.3 jumper and bought my first arab. Never looked back after that.
Vickey this is NOT new to me and I regularly did 2 day 50’s nearly every weekend going for breakfast, no record other them my own but every weekend he did a 50 along with another arab and quarterhorse,’
Champ was his calling name, forget his registered name but he is in the record books someone under the top quarterhorse for the year.
Anyway Vickey a 50 is a piece of cake with a well conditioned horse.
I don’t let them eat on the trail, yes at the 1/2 hour vet check , water, anytime I come across a water trough or good puddle.
Never had a problem with dehydration, always had good drinkers.

[katarine]

Shadow, I don’t do endurance but I can totally see your approach making more sense- horses that are surfing the trailside for grasses at a trot aren’t looking where they are going- I know that just from my own vacuum of a QH who tries to do this all the time LOL…but to meet A2 in the middle if I stopped to adjust something, etc- I’d totally let them eat.

[Guilherme]

We don’t ride competitively in endurance, but having a “constant grazer” is a pain in butt.

When we go out we ride 40 min. of each hour, dismount and walk 10 min., then rest and graze 10 min., then do it all over again. You an cover a LOT of ground in a reasonable time doing this.

A horse that is constantly trying to “snack” is a horse that is not paying attention to it’s rider.

G.

[Auventera_Two]

Everyone does things their own way and I think that’s perfectly okay. Whatever works for you and your horse. Like I said, the mentors I have taken instruction from have all said it is wonderful to encourage eating and drinking on trail, and I follow that thought process. Time will tell how successful my horse and I can be but for right now I’m doing all the things with her that I feel comfortable with.

I disagree that a horse is running all over the trail and not paying attention while grabbing bites. When I’m motoring along in a nice hard trot or canter, the last thing my horse is thinking about is food. But when we slow down to a walk or jog, I want her to grab bites if she wants to. I have no problem with that. Believe me, whenever I lay a leg on, she revvs up and is more than ready to go. She’s a go’er. Not a stopper and eater. And she’s a very obedient horse. She’s not rude and ripping the reins away to stop and eat. But she does know that it’s ok to grab bites when we slow our gait and I give her the rein to do so. I’ve been ponying and hand walking this mare on the trail since she was 10 months old. I did a ton of trail training in those first 3 years before I ever sat on her back. I knew my goals for her from the day I brought her home and everything I’ve done with her has been in prep for developing a 100 mile horse.

[Sithly]

[QUOTE=HorseBum;3153326]
The only problem I came upon is that they turn their heads around all the way to my boot with barely any pressure on the rein at all… Is this acceptable? They disengage their hindquarters, but I barely have to put pressure on the rein. They are so nosy the go straight for my boot!!! I don’t know when to release it, because they don’t leave any room to go farther!

Is this normal?? Suggestions???[/QUOTE]

It’s not good. It’s pretty much the opposite of what you want to teach the horse. In fact, I can’t think of a reason to ever pull your horse’s head around to your boot (unless maybe you want to adjust your horse’s bridle without getting off :lol:). It’s a completely useless exercise, at best, and at worst it is actively harmful. (I’m using “you” in the general sense. Not trying to attack you or put you down, OP; I know you didn’t do it on purpose.)

Pulling a horse’s head around that far does two things. 1) It throws off his equilibrium. 2) It teaches him to disconnect (mentally) his head from his feet. It’s sometimes called “rubbernecking,” and it’s basically an evasion of your rein cues. A horse can and will run away with his nose on your boot.

I really don’t know why people recommend that as an exercise.

Anyway, there are several ways to fix it. I’d recommend getting lessons from a good trainer, but in the meantime, I’ll try to explain the method I’ve had the most success with.

Basic horse training philosophy: The horse learns from the release of pressure. In other words, if you put pressure on a horse, they will learn to repeat whatever behavior earns them a release from that pressure. For example, if you pick up your rein and put pressure on your horse and you release it when he lowers his head, he will soon learn to lower his head immediately when he feels the pressure. If you squeeze with your legs until your horse moves forward – and then you release the pressure – your horse will learn to move forward from your leg.

Similarly, if you pick up the rein and ask your horse to turn his head – and you release pressure when his head is on your boot, he will quickly learn to put his head on your boot. If you’re not careful, this can become an evasion, and before you know it, he’ll go there to “hide” from the bit. Then you have created the most dangerous of all runaways: the type that puts his nose on your boot and runs without any regard for his surroundings.

The best way to fix this habit is to nip it in the bud early on. First you must have an ideal in your mind of where you want the horse’s head. This should be between straight ahead and 45 degrees. There is no reason to turn the horse’s head greater than 45 degrees off center. It doesn’t do anything useful. So visualize your ideal head position before you pick up the rein.

Pick up the rein and ask the horse to turn his head. Release the pressure when he is in your ideal range. If he goes past 45 degrees, pick up the rein again and pull hard. His first response will be to put his nose on your boot. Do not let go. He will be momentarily confused, because last time he put his nose on your boot, it earned him a release of pressure and he remembers that. Well, this time you are changing the rules. You will keep the pressure on the horse until you feel him want to pull his head away. THEN you will release. It may be a very subtle push against your hand, but be attuned and make sure you release when the horse tries to straighten out. Reward even the littlest try at first.

You are teaching the horse that he can no longer hide from the bit by turning his head too far. By increasing the pressure when he’s too far around, you will make him want to keep his head straighter.

It may seem counterintuitive to make your horse pull on you, but in fact you are correcting an evasion. Many people confuse evasion with lightness. A light horse is one who does what you ask at the smallest cue, not one that bends his neck around whenever you touch the reins.

I am a big believer in NH, but IMO, that is one place where many trainers go wrong. Too many of them emphasize a false lightness without ever going more in-depth about what exactly makes a horse light.

[QUOTE=Guilherme;3152177]It’s not a bad thing to teach; it is a bad thing to rely upon.

IMO the “one rein stop” is just another “club in the bag.” A good trail horse should stop on one, two, three, four, or no reins.

Good luck with your training.

G.[/QUOTE]

Exactly.

[Shadow14]

I road for years in side pulls then found a light snaffle was ligher for him to carry and didn’t rub his nose. I don’t need a bit or anything, even road in a holla hoop , a small one but it was uncomfortable.
The bits I used for breaking a runaway is not the bit I would use for daily riding. It is just a breaking bit for a runaway.
I do ride in a light little copper western bit with very short shanks but a curb chain. I want the shanks short incase he wipes out and his face goes into the ground. I once broke a snaffle when the horse wiped out.
I have never yet encountered a horse that I couldn’t bend to my ways and this summer it is 50 years that I have been riding.
As for being out all day and incouraging the horse to nibble along the way I still say that is garbage. If you are running a race you get 1/2 hour breaks every 12-15 miles. Feed the horse there. If you are out hacking every few hours stop and graze the horse but for your own comfort don’t let it become an annoying habit.
I feel safe in saying there probably isn’t a rider on this forum that spends more time in the saddle them me. I ride 5 days a week and sometimes all 7 all winter and summer. Weather doesn’t stop me, cold encourages me and rain is just mother natures way of cooling him off.
How many here can say they did a 2 day 50 almost every weekend??? I can. Breakfast Saturday was at the Red Barn, 25 miles round trip every Saturday. Sunday was at the burger king, opposite direction but again 25 miles away round trip every Sunday. Icecream Tuesday and Thursday, 12 miles round trip. Since it was only 6 miles one way lets run, tie the horses, eat our cones and lope home.
No I certianly don’t need lessons on how to take care of a horse out all day.
I was grazing shadow in a one legged ankle cuff with a rope on it today getting ready for ALL DAY rides. Well I lied about that but long rides and 20 miles is not considered out of the norm.

[QUOTE=sublimequine;3154793]
A2 is an endurance rider. If you’re out on the trail for the entire day or something, having a horse eat is probably a GOOD thing.

As for using a large bit and hauling back to fix a runaway, I’m all for making a horse safer and giving it a good ‘whoa’, but that method wouldn’t work on all horses. I can basically guarantee you’d flip my horse right on over if it was tried with her. Then again, she’s got a whoa on her, isn’t the “runaway” type, and is trained to be light in the face. So that point is moot. :o

I do agree with you though on the bigger bit + softer hands. I actually don’t care to ride my mare in a sidepull because for us, I find it lacks finesse and my cues have to be “louder”. Put her in the “big hack”, which is the typical western mechanical hack, and I can give 100% of my cues with the twitch of a finger. So it’s not really a BIT per se, but it goes with the bigger bit + softer hands theory. :lol:[/QUOTE]

[Shadow14]

Put me down for another one who doesn’t recommend rubber necking your horse to pull him down from a runaway. He is liable to trip and send one or both of you to your death.
As for constantly hauling back with a big agressive bit?? if you need to do that you have not done it right. In 2 tries I want to hurt the horse enough that by the 3rd try he is locking up all by himself and you don’t touch the reins. Put the fear in him and he will not run again.

This is very old, very old but the arabs SPURRED A HORSE… The procedure was for older well trained war horses. After the horse was trained they had a special set of spurs that were actually razors. They cut the horse with a certain pattern and then rubbed salt or gun powder in the wounds to make them hurt extremely bad. They also left scares, tatoos for our tenagers but these marked the horse as trained.
From then on that war horse would not fail to give his all, or death , but the fear was in him and he would run until he dropped without being forced.
While I certainly don’t condon that I do condon teaching a horse to stop, one that is a run away, but teach him to stop in 2 hard lessons that leave him in fear of ever running away agian.
Remember these are not my horses and horses that I only ride once to break a habbit.

[Shadow14]

Alot of my normal runs are 3 hours and I do not consider stopping in that time to graze. Water and Pee are the only breaks that the horse can ask for and he tells me if he spots water he wants. Any other reason I will not let him. I don’t feel in 3 hours of steady work he needs a time out, not on my time anyway.
A well conditioned horse travelling at a good working trot can keep it up almost indefinitely, certainly longer then most people ride.
At the end of a good run if your horse is still interested in food he is doing ok. When they stand, head down and food doesn’t interest them you have ovedone it.
Again I certainly don’t agree with nibbling along the trail, it is annoying and the small amounts he gets doesn’t help. Now drinking is entirely different.
I will stop in the middle of the stream and let him play in the water with his mouth and cool his legs. I also carry a cut off water jug and scoop water up out of the river and run it over his neck and shoulders.

[Shadow14]

Look![](ng back over the horses in my past and nearly every one of them was totally unbroken when I got them. I don’t buy 3 year olds, I take 4-6 and not even halter broken. One never had his feet touched, didn’t know what a brush was, apples, carrots forget it.
All and I mean all broke quick, a few days at most and within a short time were road running.
Shadow my newest guy was 4, off a feed lot, not halter broken very well but never road, tied , nothing.
I rode him within 15 minutes of his arrival. The owner held him while I saddled him and climbed aboard. He was a bucker, I bit alot of dirt but he got broke and the ones that are not babied all their lives, broke quick and sometimes a little hard stay broke, they know manner. Shadow had a good neck rope around his neck , through the halter and was tied to something he couldn;t move. He was broke to tie then and there.
I have been at him for about 14 months now, 2500 plus miles and countless hours and I consider him well broke by most peoples standards. He is handy and there is almost nothing I am afraid to try on him.
Leading a horse around from a baby on up can actually get you in more trouble. The horse fails to recognize you as the boss, the leader, the guy you don’t cross. My horses don’t make that mistake.
For those that don’t know Shadow this is him with his severe west bit. It is really nothing but it got his attention once broke.
[IMG]http://i27.tinypic.com/2zfuyq0.jpg)

[sublimequine]

@Shadow14;3155398

As for being out all day and incouraging the horse to nibble along the way I still say that is garbage. If you are running a race you get 1/2 hour breaks every 12-15 miles. Feed the horse there. If you are out hacking every few hours stop and graze the horse but for your own comfort don’t let it become an annoying habit.

That’s your opinion, not fact. Different folks do things differently, that’s the beauty of the horse community. :yes:

I feel safe in saying there probably isn’t a rider on this forum that spends more time in the saddle them me. I ride 5 days a week and sometimes all 7 all winter and summer. Weather doesn’t stop me, cold encourages me and rain is just mother natures way of cooling him off.
How many here can say they did a 2 day 50 almost every weekend??? I can. Breakfast Saturday was at the Red Barn, 25 miles round trip every Saturday. Sunday was at the burger king, opposite direction but again 25 miles away round trip every Sunday. Icecream Tuesday and Thursday, 12 miles round trip. Since it was only 6 miles one way lets run, tie the horses, eat our cones and lope home.

Wow, arrogant much? Not all of us are endurance riders here. I’m a trail rider, I don’t do “2 days” and such, so it makes no difference to me how long you ride.

No I certianly don’t need lessons on how to take care of a horse out all day.
I was grazing shadow in a one legged ankle cuff with a rope on it today getting ready for ALL DAY rides. Well I lied about that but long rides and 20 miles is not considered out of the norm.

And who said you need lessons? I missed that part.

Yeesh, it’s the folks on this subforum that are supposed to be the nice and easygoing type! What’s with the “my way or the highway” vibe I’m getting up in here?! :eek:

[katarine]

Sublime, I think the part that got Shadow’s back up was advising her/him? that A2 is an endurance rider. You’re telling Shadow, a poster with 8 million more miles on them, that A2 might know more or ‘know what she’s talking about’ since A2 is an endurance rider. I am guessing A2 and her maresie have about a total of 150 miles of actual competition under their saddle. One of their saddles. that is

[sublimequine]

[QUOTE=katarine;3155604]
Sublime, I think the part that got Shadow’s back up was advising her/him? that A2 is an endurance rider. You’re telling Shadow, a poster with 8 million more miles on them, that A2 might know more or ‘know what she’s talking about’ since A2 is an endurance rider. I am guessing A2 and her maresie have about a total of 150 miles of actual competition under their saddle. One of their saddles. that is ;)[/QUOTE]

I don’t know Shadow. I know A2. I wasn’t aware what kind of riding he did. How someone can take offense to that is beyond me.

[Auventera_Two]

Just relax guys. Norval is my bud. He’s a great guy, very nice man. Only know him from the forums, but still, he’s a nice guy. Sublime - katarine hates me and goes out of her way to throw rocks when she can. I just ignore it. Norval on the other hand never attacks people or says hurtful things. He’s just set in his ways from years and years of riding. He knows that what he does works, and he shares that info with the forums. I think it’s a great thing. His posts sometimes seem a certain way but under it, he’s really nice and helpful.

I share what I do and if people do things differently, that’s ok too. The trail and endurance community is by FAR the kindest, most generous, and helpful group I know. Lets try to keep these boards this way, please?

[katarine]

correction- I don’t hate you. I don’t care for how quickly you deem yourself the resident expert on things, a trend of yours on anything you point yourself at. Hate isn’t the right word, easily annoyed by you, yes. Hate, nope.

[sublimequine]

[QUOTE=Auventera Two;3155738]
Just relax guys. Norval is my bud. He’s a great guy, very nice man. Only know him from the forums, but still, he’s a nice guy. Sublime - katarine hates me and goes out of her way to throw rocks when she can. I just ignore it. Norval on the other hand never attacks people or says hurtful things. He’s just set in his ways from years and years of riding. He knows that what he does works, and he shares that info with the forums. I think it’s a great thing. His posts sometimes seem a certain way but under it, he’s really nice and helpful.

I share what I do and if people do things differently, that’s ok too. The trail and endurance community is by FAR the kindest, most generous, and helpful group I know. Lets try to keep these boards this way, please?[/QUOTE]

Perhaps I just need to get to know him better. I apologize if I misread or misconstrued his posts. And you’re right, if I love the way this board is, I need to help keep it that way! :lol:

[Shadow14]

Thank you Vickey for the kind words and sorry guys to talking at you and not with you. I am older, been around a long time and figure I have this stuff down. I don’t look at riding distance as that tuff and have been doing long runs most of my life.
Anyway I know there are different ways to do things and my way is just one of many.
I teach so sometimes I forget to listen. Again sorry.
Another gorgous day tomorrow so lets all take advantage of it and get out there with our favorite friend.
Have a good one tomorrow
Norval

[sublimequine]

[QUOTE=Shadow14;3156013]
Thank you Vickey for the kind words and sorry guys to talking at you and not with you. I am older, been around a long time and figure I have this stuff down. I don’t look at riding distance as that tuff and have been doing long runs most of my life.
Anyway I know there are different ways to do things and my way is just one of many.
I teach so sometimes I forget to listen. Again sorry.
Another gorgous day tomorrow so lets all take advantage of it and get out there with our favorite friend.
Have a good one tomorrow
Norval[/QUOTE]

You too! Although it’s supposed to storm here tomorrow… so I might not get to ride at ALL. Sigh.

[Auventera_Two]

@sublimequine;3156030

You too! Although it’s supposed to storm here tomorrow… so I might not get to ride at ALL. Sigh.

Didn’t you have a freakin earthquake last night?! Yikes, I heard that on the news today! :eek: 5.2. Did you feel it?