Wow what a great write up! NGL I am stealing some of this for my own green OTTB, though he leans/twists/gapes on the left rein. We are also going to incorporate a bit more lunging here and there to let him work out the balance without me up there.
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Ok guys! I just happened to be looking at another thread (it was unrelated to this, it was about a shaking head issue and I thought I could give some input on headshakers syndrome in my other gelding to that poster). Anyways, I saw someone note that they have heard that stifle issues can directly correlate to mouth behavioral issues.
With my horses (mostly previous ones) I’ve been through the whole gamut of navicular/coffin bone issues, neck arthritis, back issues, headshakers, hock injections, SI injections, etc. but I actually have never encountered stifle issues.
Has anybody seen any validity to this statement about stifles and mouth? It makes sense-but it also makes sense to me that any body issue could correlate to an unhappy mouth in work lol. I will mention it to my vet and see what she thinks but wanted to hear others’ input!
Yes. While Ace doesn’t have huge analgesic effects*, sedatives can indeed cause the recipient to stop caring about any pain they’re feeling.
*However it “potentiates the effects of analgesic drugs, most notably, opioids” and “causes … mild skeletal muscle relaxation even in low doses” - source: plausible websites I googled for quotes.
I’d agree with others and recommend thinking of unusual horse behaviors as symptoms of physical issues first, and leave out the idea that horse’s emotional lives are a primary cause. Behaviorally horses want to cover up pain until it’s unbearable, as that’s a sign to predators that they might be easy to pick off.
You mentioned this horse “insane overreaction “ but it’s more likely not an emotion, but rather a physical symptom of real pain.
Sounds like you’re getting some good advice here - good luck with your horse!
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Really great advice here, especially from @Blugal!
I would add trying long lining. Use a cavesson and attach the lines to the cavesson, not the bit. Also try riding in the cavesson with reins attached to it instead of the bit.
I will give it a go! My trainer is away this week so I will have to wait until she gets back to show me how to long line-I could use a refresher!
Scheduling a vet appt for sometime next week hopefully as well.
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Things seem to be going somewhat well so my vet told me to hold off on having her come out just yet…I have slowed things way down in the past week. Current routine has been a mix of doing some in-hand work (he is pretty reactive to a whip touching him but it’s tough to ask him to move his hind end over while holding the reins without one, so this is a work in progress), plain lunging and lunging over raised trot poles, and hacking on flat or slightly hilly areas. We haven’t been doing all of this every single day - some days I’ve done in-hand work, some days I’ve lunged with poles other days without, etc. but I have been lunging him every day. I understand how much stress that can put on the joints, but it seems to be helping him the most thus far so my vet advised to keep doing it for 4-5 days as well as the hillwork and see where we are at.
He has calmed down considerably on the lunge. The first day of trot poles (which we started not raised) he would pull away or run in front to avoid them, or stumble over them, leap them, stop and walk them instead, etc. but he has since begun going over them beautifully and gotten better every time. To try and build that left shoulder, I have been raising them only on the left side so he has to raise his left leg higher - I am not really sure of any other exercises to do that will work one shoulder more than the other. He has stopped tucking his butt and speeding off at the canter on the lunge but he does cross canter quite frequently. The last few lunges though, he will bring himself back down to trot to fix it, or take a little stutter step to gather the lead back. He has been able to hold the lead for a few circles at a time the last few days which is more than he could initially do, and he started to finally stretch his neck down at the canter a bit. I think we’re heading in the right direction, although I haven’t done any real ringwork in the past 5-6 days to know for sure if we’ll see improvement under saddle.
I’ve been doing shoulder stretches with him daily both before and after riding, he gets liniment after rides plus carrot stretches as well, and I make him back up a few steps every day before putting him in his stall. Just little things to try and loosen his muscles while still building strength, especially in his SI and stifle region and that left shoulder.
Any other ideas for things I can incorporate into daily routine to help is much appreciated! Hopefully these are all the right things-my vet seems pleased so we’ll give it a few weeks before having her come back.
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Back him down the aisle whenever you can! We have a gate at the aisle entrance, so I walk my horse into the barn, turn him around and shut the gate, then back him to the cross ties and/or his stall. Unless you have a wildly long aisle, you should be able to build up to backing the whole thing pretty easily. It’s an easy way to incorporate backing without going out of your way to do it!
Can he do TOH in hand? Some of that crossing over action should help the shoulder.
I am in the camp that lunging is fine if done for 20 minutes or less, and daily lunging for a few weeks to work out specific issues isn’t necessarily a bad thing. I just wouldn’t lunge him every day for months on end. Using lunging to teach a skill (like trot poles) is totally fine IMO, though I don’t love having them canter until they’re cantering well enough under saddle. My personal opinion is that the canter is the gait that really puts torque on the joints when doing any size of circle, so I do it sparingly - usually to teach the transition or maybe to introduce XC jumps.
Glad to hear he’s doing better!
My mare was similar on the left, it all comes down to her left hind being weak which causes asymmetries. She also has PSSM2, which took us a while as a younger horse to diagnose and treat and throws some curveballs in there, but she also has naturally weak stifles that we always need to keep in shape.
Hill work, in-hand leg yield, long-lining, pole work…you’re on the right track with all of it. We also did an equi-band style strength conditioning for 5-10 min at the start of our rides (just used a compression-style wrap tied to the girth that loops behind her bum). You can also do pessoa but I actually prefer the long-lining over poles and out on hills having to walk up.
Just because it may be stifles doesn’t necessarily mean the stifles need injecting - it could be severe weakness.
I’ll keep adding more steps of backing up! The only tricky thing is he doesn’t back up totally straight - he kind of veers off to whichever side I’m not standing on so I stop and swap sides every few steps. Not sure whether that is a weakness thing as well or just a miscommunication issue but I’ve been meaning to look into the correct groundwork to get that sorted out. I have never done TOH in hand - but that is a splendid idea. I’ll look into it!
I’m personally wondering if it’s more general weakness than something needing injecting like you said - after the month+ of on-and-off really light work, his whole hind end definitely has lost some muscle. I’m curious to hear more about what made you look into PSSM2 for your mare as I’ve pondered asking my vet about that possibility for this guy!
Backing straight is hard! You can use a wall or poles at first, but be warned poles may freak him out at first if you go too fast. Install yielding of the hindquarters/TOF first, so you can move his hind around one step at a time. Back, stop, step over to course correct, back again. Eventually you should be able to back him straight, but you may need to go one step at a time.
Mine is still working on this. He will do the wiggly backing thing if I let him, so I also switch sides. As long as he’s curving away from the handler (vs only one direction), it’s unlikely to be a specific injury/weakness/pain thing.
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I’d give him a month or two of really good, focused work. I tend to also back off at the slightest questionable step which honestly seems to only stop the progress. Definitely don’t push him through lameness but if 6-8 weeks of good, regular, progressive work doesn’t solve it (or it gets worse), that’s when you talk to your vet. Assuming you’re on top of saddle and diet and farrier work.
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Where are you looking when you back him?
An important thing to do when you’re backing a horse and want them straight that I learned doing Showmanship at Halter is to look straight back over the top of their rump in the direction you want to be backing in and keeping your hand under the center of their chin and only moving your hand slightly to correct deviation in direction. It’s much like looking ahead in the direction you want to go when you are riding. 
It won’t be 100% all the time, but sometimes it’s user error (meaning the handler) that is causing the sway in different directions.
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I’ve got a similar sounding horse without the corresponding physical issues. He drops in to the left and used to be very anxious to ride. Removing the broken wolf teeth someone had left in his mouth after trying to remove them helped a bit, but finding a bit he was happy in (rubber mullen full cheek in his case, he loves the softness and stability) was magical for his overall attitude to his work but particularly the left rein.
He has also spent a lot of time on long (10-20 km) walk/trot hacks where he can just relax and learn to balance and use his body without having to turn constantly. He spends a lot of time in trot doing soft spirals in the arena - he found walk hard to begin with and canter even harder. He also goes a lot better in spurs when schooling as I can use a very subtle leg aid to correct the bend vs having to escalate and then he gets more worried. I also have to be very body aware and if in doubt, keep leg on and go forward before trying to rebalance. He also gets more lunging in his workload than my other horses which has helped with the circle work.
Strangely, I found him way better jumping than he was on the flat - He seemed to understand the concept of turn to a jump (or even a pole) vs turning for no obvious purpose (to him).
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That’s interesting that he’s better jumping! My guy is much, much worse over fences. He’s super super game for jumping so I think it’s a mix of excitement and anxiety for the jumping.
It’s also probably physically hard for him. A lot of times what we call “excitement” is pain/stress, plus a misunderstanding of the task at hand. Until a horse can WTC and easily navigate trot and canter poles on the lunge and under saddle, jumping is going to be physically difficult and likely to just cause anxiety and rushing (which lots of people interpret as “excitement”).
Also, lots of us ride completely differently when there are jumps involved, for whatever reason. This was one of my biggest struggles as a teen.
This isn’t a rag on you OP! It’s very common to see horses that aren’t comfortable and rideable on the flat being asked to jump around. There’s a difference between popping over some trot obstacles/sending a horse through a jump chute and asking a horse to “jump” the way most people define it. Most horses that rush or get hard to ride over fences are doing so because they can’t physically do the task or don’t understand what is being asked. Usually both.
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Think he may have gotten a bit booty sore from the past few days-last night on the lunge he didn’t want to pick up the left lead at all which is unlike him. He did pick it up eventually and then after a circle and a LOT of praise I called it a day. I think today is going to be just a massage and grazing day for him, so time to do a lot more research into the Masterson Method!!
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You’re on the right track. Give a few days off for the changes to settle. Especially when they are working through tension or tight muscles, I like to work two days on two days off or three days on two days off. Masterson work in between.
You’ll start seeing improvements in no time.
Somewhere I have an entire thread on this, that starts right from the start (pre-diagnosis) with the issues I was having and then updates throughout. There were some competing issues at play so took a while to disentangle hoofs vs PSSM2 vs nutritional imbalances.
For PSSM2, the main signs were:
- Always heavy on the left rein
- A lot of canter challenges (rushing / bolting, swapping behind and “bunny hopping”, giraffing, falling in on canter)
- Recurring ulcers despite no environmental stressors we could identify
- Worsened in shoulder seasons as temps changed - with spookiness and bucking that went beyond “spring / fall sillies”
- Hard muscles and challenges balancing when hind feet were being picked (at first wrote it off as baby weakness)
- In worst periods, toe dragging behind and would rush down hills out on the trails to avoid loading hind end
We xrayed all over, tried Adequan and joint supplements, but we noticed most improvement with lifestyle changes (12+ hours turn out, increasing magnesium & vit E, adding amino acids, consistent 5-6x a week rides) that eventually we diagnosed through treatment that she was PSSM2.
We still work her nearly daily, but I adjust my rides to what her body is telling me she can handle that day. A big temp swing late last week triggered a mild flare so this weekend we just hacked and did stretchy work in the ring. She’s back feeling good again so we resumed normal work yesterday.
The biggest indicator of the PSSM2 was the shiftiness of it…it seemed to be muscular because it wasn’t consistent enough in presence or severity to be an injury / joint issue (and we had ruled out Lyme).
Oh last thing that was weird about her – she seemed to have limited immune function. She was often getting colds, over-reactions to cuts (swelling, slow to heal, cellulitis) and frequent scratches infections that often needed SMZs (despite dry turn out and good care)…once we got PSSM2 managed that has almost entirely disappeared.
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Is it this one?
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