As soon as you said he’s been funky with his right hind I also immediately thought EPM 
though I am, like many, probably guilty of seeing EPM everywhere because of my own NQR EPM guy (who also never “failed” a neuro). Easy thing to at least check off the list.
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Alright! We tested for Lyme-neither vet thinks we need to test for EPM. We did end up injecting his stifles despite the clean X-rays. We also took new back X-rays and compared to old ones-they look about the same, but there is one spot near his lower back that looks like it could possibly have vertebrae touching (I know I said his back rads were clear at PPE-we saw this spot, but it’s so minimal we’re not even sure it’s bothering him, so for all intents and purposes his back looked great. Hence why we’ve been changing his feet that did not look great, and hocks that had mild osteoarthritis). Hard to tell if that’s anything, but we opted to inject just that spot just in case.
I’m pretty interested to see how the injections do, but also curious about the Lyme test. I don’t think he’ll test positive, but to me it was worth the test just to get rid of the guesswork. We are also going to change his hoof angles even more-updated foot rads show they are still not quite how they should be.
You also may want to look into chiropractic work. After more than a year of struggling with my mare’s “just not quite right” issues - including REFUSING to go around cross country (after taking over for me at a previous show and being a rock star), I finally had someone I trust come out and yep…way outta whack. She’s getting better but needs regular adjustment right now.
After the first adjustment, she was almost back to her old self, running around like a nutter and taking me to all the jumps (or trying to if I wasn’t really aiming at that jump but she thought maybe I was…)
We didn’t start off on a great regular schedule because remembering to schedule something is not my forte…if I can’t schedule the next appt at the end of current appt, I cannot be relied upon to follow up appropriately.
Anyway… I was also kind of thinking EPSM, which you can look at if you want but that’s more a metabolic issues in draft/draft types so probably not your guy…I would go chiropractor first.
He’s been chiropracted! I’m on the fence about chiropractic work in general-I think for some horses it’s great, for others it doesn’t make a difference. I know it could take more than one appointment to fix things, but the chiro didn’t note anything significant for him to begin with so I haven’t scheduled a follow-up.
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I think if the chiro didn’t notice anything, then there is no need to continue. The same chiro worked on my friend’s horse once and he likewise didn’t really notice anything major so he doesn’t work on that horse anymore (no need). He does notice on mine and I do notice a difference between right after and when she’s due again. I’m hoping that difference fades as I get better about getting regular work (last time we were supposed to be 3 weeks and we ended up being 5 weeks because I forgot, then the chiropractor was on vacation…sigh…)
I think it is the same with people - some people just go out of alignment more easily than others.
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Well, the Lyme test came back negative. I know it is early to tell under saddle, but in the few rides since he got injected (he pulled a shoe so needed a few days off as well), he feels worse. His right lead canter is fine but his left lead is really stabby now.
I am just so discouraged at this point-I think I’ll have my trainer put rides on him for a week or two and see if maybe she can work him through it and get him moving correctly to start building up the correct muscle (if his stifles even really were the issue). I got off today and just felt paralyzed by sadness afterwards. I can’t sell this horse for any reasonable amount of money if I wanted to part with him. He was my one real shot at competing successfully, as I have never come from a family with money and have always had to work and pay for all of this myself. I was so, so lucky that my significant other decided to buy me a horse (just the purchase cost, I pay for everything else)-finally, after having multiple horses that were free or dirt cheap and just couldn’t physically do the job, I would have one that I could show. I don’t have high aspirations, I just want to start at beginner novice then novice and see if I even want to go higher from there.
Now, I have spent so much on vet bills for this horse to try and figure him out that I don’t have a cent to put towards a new horse even if I were to sell this guy. And to top it all off, my significant other since was laid off-and while he found a new job quickly, he isn’t in a financial spot to help me find a new partner anymore.
If these recent injections don’t do the trick, I’m just going to have to call it a day with him. I’m beyond devastated over it. My one “real” shot and it just completely didn’t work out:sob:
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First off, hugs and jingles - horses can be so unbelievably frustrating. I feel for you, seriously! Second, feel free to ignore the rest of this if you’re not feeling up to the discussion yet.
If you feel like it, can you sum up the symptoms you are seeing right now, new and old? A brief rundown of the diagnostics you’ve done might be helpful too. I’m going to read through your thread again when I have time, but these things get muddy as they go on! I ask for two reasons - one, spelling it out for yourself can help jog your memory, and two, it would maybe help other posters give you things to think about if/when you’re ready to revisit.
IIRC, you haven’t done an EPM titer or hind hoof xrays? Did you ultrasound the stifle? Hoof balance and EPM can make them ridiculously sore. You also may be looking at a chronic soft tissue injury somewhere, maybe suspensory or stifle. To find these things, a lameness locator and/or a good vet + blocking and an ultrasound can be the key. “Working him through it to build the right muscles” can take a chronic issue to catastrophic, so I’d be careful doing that if you haven’t pursued the possibility. Especially since he’s getting worse - has he been in work this whole time?
Again, I’m sorry to hear he’s still struggling. There’s also the option of focusing on his feet and just turning him out for 6mo-a year to let anything hidden have a chance to heal on its own. I had good luck with this route for a minor suspensory injury.
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This was my thought when reading about turning him over for the trainer to ride. Personally, at this point I would give him some good time off, especially if this a horse you want to show and have longevity with.
I’m just starting to bring my guy back into work after a laminitis flare up and we had mystery shoulder neck stuff much earlier this year that took some time to work itself out. Hang in there.
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I haven’t done EPM/hind hoof xrays/ultrasounds. At this point though, I’m not sure I can really afford to do more. I could theoretically spend a bit more, but it’s almost not worth it. I’ve put way way more in vet bills into this horse to try and figure his issues out than I did to buy him-and I’ve spent much more time agonizing over it than I even have riding him. I think I might just give up for now.
Hey, I get it. And retiring him for a bit until you want to revisit isn’t a bad thing!
However, I do think you’ve spent a good amount of money but maybe your vet team hasn’t really focused you on the “best bang for your buck” diagnostics. The things I listed would’ve been Vet Appointment One for me - but that’s because I have been down the road you’re on before. It’s frustrating and expensive either way!
Turn him out. Fix his feet. Let him work out the NQR on his own. I really wouldn’t have your trainer ride him, but rather suggest turning him out. Especially since he has gotten worse.
I’m really sorry. It’s so discouraging to have ONE horse and put all your hopes on it just to have it come up lame. I think we have all been there and you have our sympathy!
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Yep< I would turn out for awhile and let mother nature do her stuff.
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I wonder if there is some sort of in-between option to at least keep him somewhat fit? I’m a little worried that if I were to turn him out for a bit and then bring him back, it will take forever to build up muscle again, and I’ll have to deal with the behavioral issues while bringing him back too. Maybe I’ll just start trail riding him or something.
Going back to your OP, how fit is he actually now? If he was lame months ago, and has only been sound (doesn’t read as sound to me) for a month, I can’t imagine his current fitness level is high. Pushing through an unknown health issue is often a recipe for making things worse for his health and your relationship with him. He’s telling you something isn’t right and it seems pretty loud and clear.
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He’s a TB, right? They get fit fast. And your soundness issues are bad enough that you shouldn’t be riding him anyway until you find what works for him/treat the issue. Remember, you did some really targeted fitness work and it made him WORSE. That means you’re dealing with something other than plain fitness (soft tissue injury, hoof angles causing strain and injury higher up, etc).
If you’re not going to dig farther with the vet, turn the horse out and DO NOT WORK HIM for 6 months-a year. Just maintain the farrier/basic vet and let him live out, give Dr Green time to work. Then bring him back slowly and carefully and see what you have.
If you want to ride this horse right now without risking injuring him to the point of permanent damage, you’re going to need to invest some money with the vet. He’s not “just” lame at the canter. The canter is simply a tattle-tale gait - horses that can compensate/tolerate slower gaits will fall apart at the canter. This applies to fitness AND injury.
Or, just keep working him. Maybe he breaks, maybe he doesn’t 
. But the horse is telling you something is wrong.
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Yes, he is a tb so that is a good point, I shouldn’t worry too much about his fitness. The reason I was considering still working him (for a couple of weeks at basic wtc) was in case it is just a learned pain response now and he needs to realize it isn’t going to hurt when going up to the canter.
I’ve only had three rides under saddle since the injections-and this has been an ongoing issue for him for about a year, so I can imagine he is probably expecting it to hurt still even if it doesn’t. My thought process is give him the two weeks that the injection should take to work under saddle, and if he doesn’t feel better after, then just turn him out.
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Not exactly the same but my horse was significantly worse following back injections many years ago. Long story short: he was ultimately diagnosed with a very high Lyme titer. I know your horse did not test positive for Lyme, but the theory on what happened with my horse is that the steroid injections compromised his immune system enough that the Lyme got much, much worse. Considering that your horse got worse after injections, I would really consider at least the EPM test before turning him out.
As an owner of said horse with a near-constant stream of evolving issues, I 100% understand wanting to turn out and just take a mental and financial break from all of it. My opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it 
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And what if it’s not a learned pain response? You’ll have spent a couple weeks making it worse.
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Alright, my trainer hasn’t seen the horse go since my gelding had his injections, so she is going to take a look at him (I want to confirm that she thinks he doesn’t look great either. Since this horse has had these problems ongoing for so long, I want to make sure I’m not just seeing things that aren’t there at this point). I think, now that I have had a few days to think on it, that my first step will be the hind feet. X-Rays are (relatively) inexpensive compared to the other diagnostics, and I am willing to give that a shot. My vet is on vacation right now, so I’ll either wait for them to get back or reach out to them and their boss who they had provide the second opinion, and see what they think.
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Extra (trusted) eyes are never a bad thing!
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I ended up emailing both of them and just noting that it isn’t urgent but that I added both of them since they were working in tandem on him at the last appointment. I hope it doesn’t seem as though I am disregarding my regular vet’s opinion-they did not think that the hind feet would be posing a problem so didn’t think it was worth taking radiographs. I’ve never personally pushed for any rads or tests to be done that my vet doesn’t think is worth it, so I feel kind of weird about it. I hope I addressed it in the right way-I can imagine licensed vets don’t love hearing someone say “but I saw someone on the internet said this!” after they went through school and getting a degree to give you their professional opinion. I basically just said since changing the front foot angles seemed to help his posture, maybe changing the hind foot angles would too and that rads are cheap enough to do just in case… ugh!!
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