Oops! Mark Todd cruelty

[McGurk]

@GoneAway

I’m horrified by those genuinely defending Todd’s actions in that video,

Who? Who is defending his actions in this video?

I haven’t read a single defense of the technique used in the video. No one has said “Sure, it’s okay to beat a horse into a drop into the water, it’s a technique I’ve used successfully lots.”

We’ve all agreed that it’s bad horsemanship and bad training. We’ve quibbled whether this is abuse of the highest order, or somewhere else on the spectrum, but no one has defended his actions. People have posted that they understand the clinic environment and the pressure to “get it done” but it doesn’t excuse the behavior.

More significantly, no one has started social media campaigns with titles like “I Stand with Mark” or “Athletes for Tree Branches in Sport.”

This hyberbole for effect, take no prisoners, pitchforks and torches mob approach serves NO ONE and certainly not our sport.

Unless your outrage was squared or cubed for Elizabeth Mandarino, George Lindemann, Paul Valliere, Brigid Colvin, Andy Kocher and Devin Ryan, your outrage at this incident is out of proportion.

Yes, the video is bad. Yes, there should be consequences for Mark Todd. There already have been. Actual ones, not banning from a sport or sports organization he no longer participates in; in a country he no longer works in.

Otherwise you’re just the Queen of Hearts, shouting “Off with their Heads!” to no effect.

[FitzE]

This is not the only platform on which this is being discusses.

Yes, there are many people defending him elsewhere that you can read.

Also, many of the ‘We’ve all done it/I’ve seen worse/you must live in a bubble if this is the worst you’ve seen’ posts here read as defence to me. They certainly land as condoning the behaviour or, at the very least, dismissing and belittle those who find the behaviour indefensible. If one is dismissing detractors, one is providing some level of support/defence of the action.

[GoneAway]

@McGurk I genuinely do not understand your attitude toward me. I am NOT the individual here calling for Todd’s head. Did you seriously not read the rest of my post?

People are allowed to be upset and outraged. But I also went on to say that energy can be better spent doing productive things like actually helping horses NOW, rather than screaming for Todd to be tarred and feathered for something he apologized for and that happened two years ago.

It’s just screaming into the void. I think we actually agree here, but if you need someone else to jump on and vilify then sure…I guess maybe my crippling depression and self-loathing can handle one more thing.

And FWIW… I’ve read comments on FB from people who literally said “I stand with Mark Todd,” and joked about walloping horses into trailers or into water. Lots of “I see nothing wrong with what he did” too. Just because you haven’t seen it doesn’t mean it’s not being said.

Let’s go be better horsemen.

[Djones]

For my small part of meh about it, I’ve sought to offer perspective on how awful it was or wasn’t, how often (every Tuesday at 10 v in specific situations). I make a distinction between understanding and defending…AND I grasp that this nuance doesn’t harmonize with some. That’s fair.

[FitzE]

One can understand + defend OR understand + condemn OR understand + be neutral. That ‘nuance’ does not cut in favour of any particular viewpoint. The folks who do not feel the same as you do can and do also ‘understand’.

[libgrrl]

I’m completely with you. I always try to seek the middle ground if I can. The world is too polarized these days – including in what used to be called “animal husbandry” (eck). This board used to be a place where we could discuss “why” things were done (or might have been done) the way they were done. Completely unlike Facebook comments. I miss that.

[McGurk]

@GoneAway,

My apologies. I absolutely did grab a quote from your post without reading the rest of the post for context.

Your point of view, as expressed in the rest of the post, is reasonable, well thought out and pretty much in alignment with mine.

I especially apologize for the lazy quoting.

Thankfully, COTH is the only social media I engage with on this issue so i am blissfully unaware of what it being said on other social media. I got burnt to a crisp on “I stand with George” and “Athletes for Equity in Safe Sport”

That being said, I think it’s entirely possible to condemn the video and the bad horsemanship shown there AND not think Mark Todd should be ridden out of town a rail, keel hauled, drawn and quartered and marched through the town square naked with the “Shame!” speta following him ringing a bell. (Game of Thrones reference, sorry.) Condemning the behavior but and not condemning the person in totality is a fine line to walk, and many people lack the ability to walk that line.

[OverandOnward]

If there is one lesson I have taken away from social media, it is the utter waste of time trying to change people’s individual opinions.

There is no fixing the world through social media.

All you can do is state your own views. Maybe that will influence someone else. But if not, life goes on, time to move on. Find other avenues to be the change you want.

[libgrrl]

Honestly, once upon a time – maybe 10 years plus ago (??) there were some great discussions here. And my mind was changed – more than once. Now everyone retreats to their “tribes.” I guess that is the beauty of “transparency” – but it also prevents us from ever listening to each other.

[GoneAway]

@McGurk Thank you. Agreed on all you said. I saw the “I stand with Mark Todd” comments on FB and thought…geezus here we go again.

…And then I remembered: MARK TODD doesn’t stand with Mark Todd. He admitted being wrong and apologized. Which only makes the social media comments condoning/minimizing/supporting the actions in the video clip more ridiculous and frustrating.

But on the opposite side, the ones calling for him to be canceled have it wrong too. It’s unhelpful and unproductive. Reactionary vs proactive. Go DO something good for the horses around you, educate people on good horsemanship practices, and be a part of the solution rather than yelling into the wind demanding Todd to face Trial by Combat.

(I also love GOT references)

[FitzE]

@GoneAway

MARK TODD doesn’t stand with Mark Todd. He admitted being wrong and apologized. Which only makes the social media comments condoning/minimizing/supporting the actions in the video clip more ridiculous and frustrating.

This!

It’s also why the people condoning/minimising/supporting him or screaming ‘cancel culture’ are telling us more about themselves than about MT or his behaviour in this instance.

[Djones]

I’m not clear why you need to set yourself apart when I made pains to state what I stated…

[FitzE]

Hmmm, we must be missing each other’s intent. I didn’t set mySELF anywhere. I said ALL sides can also understand. I read your post as setting YOURself apart as being able to both understand and be ‘meh’ about it. I was only saying that I think most people posting here, regardless of their take, also both understand and have their own POV.

Mine was a general comment, not a self-referential one.

[subk]

@FitzE

It’s also why the people condoning/minimising/supporting him or screaming ‘cancel culture’ are telling us more about themselves than about MT or his behaviour in this instance.

So if you live in the real world, able to understand and evaluate context, and aren’t subject to hyperbole you must be condoning the behavior. I’ve not seen a single person in almost 400 comments condone the behavior. Seriously. Not one. And then somehow if you correctly identify the results of cancel culture as cancel culture and say the actual words that’s some other random black mark against your name.

I can’t decide if most of you guys are really that lacking in self awareness or you’re truly that petty and mean.

[Knights_Mom]

I’m not sure what him being cancelled means. My stance is that just saying I’m sorry isn’t good enough. There must be more.

And I say the same thing about each and every animal abuser/mishandler. Every one.

What should that “more” be? I guess that’s specific to type of tort and degree of offense and injury caused as well as country, discipline, etc.

I don’t want MT hung, but at least let it cost him $$$$ in some way.

[subk]

People with integrity actually understand that there are more valuable things to their person to lose than money.

It is surprising your position, considering other comments on other threads about how strongly you feel about a certain cyber bully, that you would so quickly jump on board with the poster of this video. Her employer from two years ago has publicly called her out for cyber bullying and other unseemly behavior while she was employed. And then there is the $hit stirring with a 2 year old video. Not that anyone should expect any consistency from you…

[FitzE]

Sorry, where have I been ‘petty and mean’? Or where has anyone for that matter?

You seem to be getting really emotional about this. I’m not sure why. Everyone else seems capable of just discussing.

ETA: Oh, I did find evidence of someone being petty and mean.

@subk

Not that anyone should expect any consistency from you…

[subk]

Let’s quote this again:

@FitzE

It’s also why the people condoning/minimising/supporting him or screaming ‘cancel culture’ are telling us more about themselves than about MT or his behaviour in this instance.

So what I’m reading here is: if I don’t agree with your take the then I’m “condoning.” If I live in the real world have some context of the level of abuse, I’m “minimizing.” If I don’t condemn him I “supporting him.” And if I mention the words “cancel culture” then you apparently can read between the lines into my character and it’s obviously not nice.

“Everyone discussing?” Hardly, you’ve guys have been saying slyly insulting things about opinions that aren’t toeing your line since about 1/3 of the way through the thread and those people have dropped off. The majority of the people still here and “discussing” have a single viewpoint.

I’m not emotional at all. I just call out bullies where I see them and have a pretty consistent record of doing so for years. That quote was classic, self righteous bullying.

[subk]

@FitzE

ETA: Oh, I did find evidence of someone being petty and mean.

You ever read any of the hundreds of posts she has on the Barisone case?

[FitzE]

Disagree. I’m saying that people who are out of line with Mark Todd’s own take on his own behaviour is telling about the commenter, not Mark Todd. Again, as someone else already more eloquently put it: even Mark Todd doesn’t stand with Mark Todd on this one. Why would anyone go against that? Why would people be spending so much energy countering his own take on himself? That’s what’s telling. Those people are pursuing an agenda of their own, not supporting his. That is, if nothing else, interesting in this context.

And, yes, I’m happy to stand by my contention that the use of ‘cancel culture’, ‘PC’, and related epithets reveals something about the speaker. Just as my rejection of those terms reveals something about me.

I don’t think you’re calling out bullies at all. I don’t see any on this thread. I respectfully submit that a lot of what you have just written is pretty aggressive, mocking, and could come off as bullying. I think there are a couple different takes on here and I experience this exchange as everyone discussing them. Then there’s a general through-line about let’s all do/be better. I’m sorry that is not how you’re experiencing it, but I don’t think that that is the fault of any poster or imagined group of posters on here.