Thank you very much!
1 Like
Well, despite its flaws, I think itās a good idea, especially since some of the other programs seem to be stalling, e.g. EAP and USHJA Horsemastership Program (former GMās Horsemastership). Itās kind of Katie and Laura to take it on since they are probably pretty busy already. As far as Karl Cook, heās always had controversial views and I think he was trying to say that the system is slanted towards the āold guardā. He did also say that without his motherās money, he would not have had the chance to have the horses he had and that he wouldnāt have been on the Team but for the in his view, flawed system. For a rich kid, heās pretty open about the gifts having that money has been for him, and heās pretty quick to admit when he messes up with his riding. Just saying.
23 Likes
My two cents: if they really wanted to spot some young talent, start a program where the juniors get assigned an OTTB; make them do all the training rides; check back in in 18 months, and see what they have developed.
I think there is a dividing line generationally between the pros that had to develop their own young horses (especially OTTBs) and have dominated at the highest levels for years, versus the trailing generations that never truly had to train their own horses. Without the grit and experience that comes from green horses, hot horses, every kind of horse, I donāt think the well mounted rich kids will consistently succeed at the highest levels year in and year out, especially versus Europeans who are still expected to start and develop their own horses and acquire all the accumulated knowledge that comes from the school of hard knocks
19 Likes
Unfortunately the sport has changed dramatically. If the point of this program is to develop our next olympians or nations cup members, then those riders donāt really need to learn how to work with an OTTB. You just donāt see them in the 1.50m or 1.60m ranks these days with how the courses have changed.
Using a riderās ability to work with an OTTB as a qualifier for this specific stated purpose is irrelevant. Learning how to ride the technical championship courses or developing a horse through the young horse classes in Europe makes more sense for the stated goal.
27 Likes
Why not have the young USA riders start green purpose bred WBs (possibly from a state supported stud) as the Europeans do then? Why derail the discussion into OTTBs and imply they make better International calibre riders? Or that skill starting colts develops skills at 1,45m?
12 Likes
I donāt know where you could find 100 purpose bred four year told WBs for $3500 each, but you could for sure do that with OTTBs. And developing a green blood horse is a legitimate skill that will translate to whatever horse they ride in the futureāask all of our showjumpers who are older than 45. I am not talking about whether an OTTB is or is not going to be a 1.60 horse or their future Olympic horse. I am talking about young riders developing enough finesse and grit to ride anything in the future. And if you guys really want to freak outā¦I am going to add in my imaginary program that they have to take the horse fox hunting and come back safe and sound, as well as showing us their eq course and their 1.30 jumper course.
Too many people today think piloting a horse that someone else trained, put on its changes, got going over fences, etc., is the same as really, really knowing what you are doing. I am not one that begrudges the pro kids their successes at all because I believe many of them can do and have had to do their own training.
23 Likes
They can learn to start young horses on their own dime. It doesnāt require the same amount of money as moving from a national level to an international level, nor does it require Katie Prudent.
19 Likes
So where are the rich American kids who have been showing in Europe dominating the tops of the sport? Itās not happening consistently that I can see, and I am offering the theory that riding a bunch of technical courses at international shows on pretrained horses without the kind of old school foundation I am describing is not going to work to recreate the dominance of American riders of a certain age that had to (and did) ride everything and everything. Itās like you guys think you can skip the grit and get right to the gloss, and I really wonder if that is true
11 Likes
You think Katie Prudent got to be Katie Prudent my way, or the modern way?
5 Likes
To your point, there was a story in Practical Horseman years and years ago about Katie w Johnnyās Pocket.
Well, Jessica Springsteen has an individual silver medal from the Tokyo Olympics, for one.
10 Likes
I think theyāre employing Katie Prudent for her teaching skills not for her riding skills. Her niche is taking the top rider to the next level. They can do their homework before they get there.
If it makes a difference, I start 5 or more horses a year from the ground up, and foxhunt my ottb that I retrained. I also jumped the 1.45m as a junior and young amateur and had enough money to show full time at the biggest national shows. I still could never afford a real GP horse, let alone an international horse, and no one is sending me to the Olympics. Itās a different level of skill and an entirely different level of investment.
22 Likes
Currently ranked 182ndā¦a beautiful rider and a good person, but not A Given like Ward, Madden, Kraut, etc., including the 70ās and 80ās stars
1 Like
ā¦ not in show jumping she doesnāt.
1 Like
I donāt think people would have signed up for Katie Prudentās training but for Katie Monahanās riding success, and I donāt think she would have had her riding success if she only rode made horses (that her European competitors trained for her).
You sound like someone who should have been talent scouted and given more riding opportunities!
6 Likes
How do you know what kind of riding opportunities that poster did or did not have? Or what family contacts with BNTs?
4 Likes
My point is that I had plenty of opportunities, but this was not one of them. And I can see a very good reason for why it is needed.
6 Likes
No argument from me on the need to identify that kind of talent and help it develop.
Just not convinced that help needs to start with breaking colts. Theres alot of talented AOs and young Pros out there at 1.3 and even 1.4 that just need a little help with advancing their skills and getting horses and contacts to take that next step,
10 Likes
This.
There may very well be a separate conversation to be had about how to develop well-rounded horsemen. But the stated purpose of this program is to develop top international riders. Thereās a nuance there that I think is being missed by some. The skills needed to ride a 1.50m or 1.60m course are different than the skills needed to retrain an OTTB which are in turn different from the skills develop a purpose bred sport horse.
And for what itās worth, many of the top riders are not developing their own from yearling or young horse. Many are looking at which horses are going well in the age classes and they buy from there. Or they have sponsors who pluck a going Grand Prix horse from someone elseās string. They may develop a few, but itās not necessarily the norm these days once they get to the top. Their focus becomes very much on having and maintaining a string at the 1.30m level and up. Theyāre not always spending much time at heights below that.
13 Likes
