Opinion needed - Owner and Stable differing treatment opinions

[frugalannie]

A former large animal now small animal vet friend suggested that I use scar tape for a wound on my horse’s hind cannon that could easily have developed proud flesh. It’s a human product, available OTC, and it worked. I’d cut a piece a bit larger than the wound, stick it on (it pretty much self adheres) and then put a bit of elasticon over it. It looked quite funky under the scar tape, but it healed beautifully. I’ve used it on my own gashes since.

Glad you didn’t have any cellulitis and your horse is healing well.

[Weezer]

Great tip, thanks for sharing!

[endlessclimb]

@Blueeyedroan

I have been told that I have to get a vets approval to stop stall rest and bandaging.

This is where it gets weird for me.

The vet is there to give the initial diagnosis and look at the injury fresh. He prescribes a treatment plan for the immediate future, not for forever. And we, as horse people, know that that plan changes daily based on a million different factors.

If an owner says “turn the horse out” I’m going to turn the horse out. If something changes in the condition of the wound or swelling or whatever, I’m going to let the owner know.

The owner has final say.

This feels like the hunter/jumper barn phenomena where no one knows if/when/what drugs are being administered to their own horse, and owners aren’t allowed to talk to the vet/farrier.

The owner has the final say, period.

[sascha]

I can totally see a BO getting burnt by an owner who gave bad instructions for care and then came back on the BO for ruining their horse.

Asking for a vet’s sign off shifts the responsibility off the BO.

Does all this sound silly? Yes, but we know there are stupid, uneducated owners out there who would insist on something that would cause a problem only to come back on the BO with “You shouldn’t have let me, or you didn’t make your point clear” etc. I can think of a couple of completely avoidable bad outcomes that fit that scenario. Thankfully we’re not quite as litigious on this side of the border and those particular BOs didn’t go through much more than whining and complaining and bad attitude from those boarders.

[endlessclimb]

Maybe, but that’s a case where the BO can show the owner the door.

The owner, the one who pays the bills, the one who will have to bankroll the permanently unsound horse, that person has the final say.

[sascha]

Who has legal care and custody of the horse? That’s going to be the BO. It’s a lot more complicated than “They are the owner so we’ll do whatever they say.”

[endlessclimb]

This is not neglect, it’s wound treatment.

If a BO refused to follow my instructions regarding my horse (barring me saying “forklift him into the loft” or something equally stupid), there would be problems.

Now that the vet has supported OP’s position, I’m curious what this BO is going to do.

We as horse people know that stall rest on a leg with a scrape or puncture that didn’t impact the tendons/structures is likely doing more harm than good - particularly with the presence of swelling.

What was this BO thinking?

[sascha]

@endlessclimb

This is not neglect, it’s wound treatment.

No-one said it was. Put yourself in the position of a BO with (and I’m using hypothetical situation here to describe my point) 40 years of handling 40 horses in their barn daily. 40 years of dealing with medical emergencies and wound care, etc for absentee owners.

Now picture one of the absentee owners arguing against everything you know about this particular type of injury of which you have several cases of perfectly healed horses in your experience.

You know the horse will have a bad outcome.

I know if it were me, I’d have the owner either sign off on a new waiver about the care they want their horse to receive or give them their marching orders because it is not black and white, “The owner told me to do x, therefore I am absolved of liability.”

[endlessclimb]

@sascha

I’d have the owner either sign off on a new waiver about the care they want their horse to receive

I’m sure OP would have been willing to sign that. It’s the “you need vets approval” that’s the problem. Lord knows us large animal people don’t generally call the vet back to follow up on a wound that by all intents and purposes is healing fine and does not need additional medical assistance. I think my vet would be highly annoyed by that, honestly.

[sascha]

@endlessclimb

It’s the “you need vets approval” that’s the problem. Lord knows us large animal people don’t generally call the vet back to follow up on a wound that by all intents and purposes is healing fine

And I’m sure that if the BO thought the wound really was healed enough for whatever treatment/activity level the owner requested, they wouldn’t have asked the owner to get a recheck.

In case you’ve forgotten, the puncture is still draining. It is not fully healed

[endlessclimb]

What encourages draining? Standing, or moving?

What’s likely to get reinjured? The horse losing its mind in a stall (remember the injury was from kicking through a board… like a stall wall…), or happily out with buddies?

[AAHunterGal]

I had a puncture wound near the hock a few years ago, and I do remember my vet saying to keep her in and bandaged until it had stopped weeping/draining and was healed over the entry point, due to the possibility of infection in the joint.

There are things you can give your horse to help with stall rest, as well as paying to have her hand walked 2x a day or if there’s a round pen, she could be drugged and given some supervised TO in there.

I feel like the BO is probably looking out for the best interest of the horse and has seen a lot of these types of wounds go wrong, and I do understand that you want what you want done. It just feels like there’s a compromise someplace in the middle and that’s probably what’s best for the horse.

[2DogsFarm]

Yabbut…
Does BO have this latest info from the vet?
If not, is there a problem asking BO to call vet & get the info (whether from vet or clinic staff) “from the horse’s mouth”?

[sascha]

@endlessclimb

What’s likely to get reinjured? The horse losing its mind in a stall (remember the injury was from kicking through a board… like a stall wall…), or happily out with buddies?

I am not arguing that, not at all. My own treatment of this injury (which neither of us have actually seen, so we’re going on what we imagine it to be) would be a combination of what BO recommends and what owner wants. I would certainly not want a horse with an open, still draining, puncture injury out (or in for that matter) with that still draining injury uncovered.

What I am saying is that the BO is likely trying to cover their butt and there may be very good reason for that…

[Blueeyedroan]

The call to the vet was a little painful.

This vet has seen my horses, on and off, for the past 12 years. He vetted one of my first OTTBs - at the same barn - 10 years ago.

So when I finally got him on the phone and asked “when is it appropriate to turn my horse out after this injury”, there was actually that moment of silence where I could hear him trying to figure out if I was joking or not, and why on earth I was making this call.
The answer was a strong “uhhh, she NEEDS to move”.
I also told him I lunged her and was “advised” that I shouldn’t have. He said , we already ultrasounded and looked at it twice to determine that the injury was simply cuts and punctures, he doesn’t see any reason why (almost 3 weeks later) she shouldn’t be lunged - barring OBVIOUS lameness which would then require further investigation.

I thanked him for his time and just subtly mentioned that there was some politics involved and I’m following process.

[Blueeyedroan]

Here’s hoping this was just a difference of opinion and with the vets advice we can all just move on and call it a day.

[2DogsFarm]

Which does not answer the question I posted.
Has BO talked to VET?

[omare]

It also depends on environment, we have so much mud around here I have trouble turning out without any complicating factors. But I am also not adverse to bandaging. (I thought an advantage - reduces proud flesh, chance of infection, etc.)

If barn owner continues to disagree, I go with the middle ground suggestion- hand walk or turn out for 30 mins. a day-bring in, clean up and rebandage.

And remember this will pass!

[Blueeyedroan]

No.
BO is actually away right now, she has a manager of sorts. The manager is the one handing down recommendations and reports at this time. The manager does not contact me and I was never given her contact.
I did request that BO give Manager my number as hearing about a change in my horses condition 2 DAYS later is absolutely unacceptable on all fronts.

BO asked me to call vet and report back.
I did exactly as asked.

[TWH_Girl]

So now the the BO is gone too? This is a new twist. The entire thread makes it sound like the BO is doing all the work right now.