It’s a fair question, since the author of the opinion piece that complained about “American” TB breeding was from the UK.
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I appreciate your perspective and I promise I don’t want the breed to go anywhere nor am I suggesting it needs to shrink to 5000 TBs a year. I think to understand the post racing career “carrying capacity” we would need updated slaughter statistics by breed.
For my area at least I feel like I just see a disproportionate number of ads for unwanted TBs which hurts because they’re such nice horses. Unwanted quarter horses makes sense because that’s just the most common breed (especially in my area), unwanted backyardigans makes sense because poor breeding and poor training usually go hand in hand, but unwanted thoroughbreds? That shouldn’t happen…
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Why do you think there shouldn’t be unwanted thoroughbreds but unwanted horses of other breeds are to be expected and okay?
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I completely agree. But it’s also challenging to get such statistics since domestic slaughter has ended. As mentioned earlier, it’s not like Canada or Mexico are likely to help us out with reliable data. It is illegal to transport horses for slaughter in many (all?) states. Many racetracks have anti-slaughter policies. While it still unfortunately happens, it happens in a round about manner, making it harder to trace and harder to prosecute. “Aw shucks I gave those horses to a nice farmer who said they could live on his back 40…”
It would also be nice to have data on how horses are rehomed. This seems like info TAA or the Grayson-Jockey Club foundation may already be compiling, or could do so relatively easily.
But racing’s internal carrying capacity has been self-correcting my entire life.
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Yep, it’s almost like you would need someone to go the physical auction identify which buyers are purchasing for slaughter and then do an inventory. But dear lord you could not pay me enough money to go do that job. No freaking way, I stay far away from those auctions for a reason. I don’t have the stomach for it.
And @Simkie it’s definitely not ok in other breeds either. It’s just when you see a number thats going to slaughter that’s disproportionate to the population of that breed, that’s when you need to look at other factors besides, being old, lame, unsafe etc. I use the term “expected” in the statistical sense, not that I think it’s in anyway acceptable.
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I don’t think we have any data at all to support this statement.
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We do it’s just old.
Can you share it?
Because the data I’m familiar with was pre-2005 and I also can’t seem to locate it. I thought it was part of the AHC data. I would be very curious to see it.
There have been considerable changes in TB aftercare and awareness about slaughter since 2005. The recession of 2008 also decimated the TB population. Anything from 2008-2012 would be heavily influenced by the recession.
That’s what I’m talking about as well, i posted it here somewhere, it’s a FOIA request from 2005 that’s the only piece of hard data I’ve seen. Which yes, is old and not as relevant because there’s a lot less TB foals born in 2020 than in 2005 but also the general horse population in the US has shrunk just as much if not more in that time period so I’m not sure we should be patting anyone on the back just yet.
My bad you did share it. Thanks for pointing that out.
Data is from 2002-2004, which I will just stress, a lot has changed with TB aftercare since that time.
Edited date
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Oh I know, programs like CANTER and things like RRP and TB classes are great. I’d love to do RRP myself one day.
I just don’t know that programs like that are enough to drive up TB demand, post racing career. My concern is that the overall horse population in the US in that early 2000s time was close to like 9 or 10 million and now in 2020, the horse population is only at 3 or 4 million. Which could most likely be attributed to less ranches but I would think at least some of that is just less horse owners in general too right? (I’m going to try to find data on this.)
If that’s the case then breeding 40% less TBs between now and then might not mean a lot when there’s way more than 40% less horse owners.
Thank you for all your replies though, I’m finding this discussion super interesting.
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What puts someone in the requirement to ensure a cradle to grave approach? Financial gain?
So any horse in for training = financial gain = trainer needs to ensure cradle to grave?
Any horse used for lessons = financial gain
Any horse sold for more than what was paid for it = (potential) financial gain
Any horse who has won any prize or money at a show = financial gain
Basically this turns it into “any horse anyone has ever had”, particularly as a pro
The only people who care about resale value are the ones who aren’t going to actually follow their preached “cradle to grave” mindset. Think about it.
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Except even then you don’t KNOW what breed of horse is going to slaughter unless their papers go with them. And are truly that horse’s papers.
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@Equkelly From my own perspective, aftercare programs and things like RRP have considerably changed the demand!
I used to flip free and cheap TBs in the 90s/early 00s. I had a good reputation by virtue of the farm where I grew up— the farm had a good reputation, and I proved able to live up to it on my own. At one point, I was getting offered good, sound, FREE TBs every week. Sometimes every day of the week. I literally couldn’t take them all.
That doesn’t happen today. Granted, I moved to an area with no racing as a young adult, but even after I moved, I was getting offered horses for the first few years. Sometimes people would even offer to van them to me at their expense!
That doesn’t happen anymore, at least not at that level. Every now and then I am offered a free TB, but it’s usually tied to a good reason: injury, aged breeding stock, etc. On the flip side, I can name you a handful of TB sellers who sell horses straight off the track for prices that I still think are insane, given my past experience. People can make a living selling barely let down TBs for $3-6K. Back 20 years ago I would be lucky to get that much for a horse I retrained for months and paid to show!
That increase isn’t just inflation, it’s demand.
Edited: clarity
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I have to disagree, while there are plenty of injuries in racing and horses retiring lame from the track. It seems that a lot of these injuries don’t in fact effect many of them in a way where they can’t go on after racing and have a great life as a riding and show horse.
The thing is, the amount of people who want a potential upper level horse is very small compared to those who want a lower level horse.
In my experience, I have seen more soundness issues in WBs and Qhs than TBs.
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We really don’t. How do you think that ancient data was even collected? Unless horses are going to slaughter with their papers (hint: they don’t) we don’t know. Anything tall and skinny gets labeled TB and anything round and muscular gets labeled QH. How accurate do you think that is? A whole lot of horses look tall and skinny when they’re starving.
Additionally, slaughter buyers have different contracts. They will buy for recipient mare programs or summer camps or other groups that need horses in bulk, cheaply. They also buy to resale, even before all of this “the truck is coming, we have to save this horse!!” nonsense. Source: talking to a couple of these guys who do this business and actually going to livestock auctions.
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I didn’t say that these injured horses aren’t able to go on and have productive careers. I said I think it’s harder to place them in good homes. I think it’s widely accepted that it’s easier to sell a horse that vets clean as opposed to one that doesn’t.
I see more issues arise from poor management than any breed basis. So there is that too.
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MorganSercuGreenie
 slaughter plants in Canada back then; don’t know if they are all still active. There were two big plants in Mexico for the EU, but I believe they were both shut down some time ago due to unsanitary and inhumane slaughter practices. I don’t believe there are other big plants in Mexico, only smaller and more local ones. (Anyone is welcome to correct me on any point). I would imagine that given the immigration status in the U.S. at this time and the backwash of people on the border might skew the statistics toward more Mexican slaughter, given the demand and the fact that this is a less desireable and cheaper meat product. More current statistics would be welcomed.
I would point out that the thoroughbred and standardbred industries are among the few breed organizations that actively work to rehome and retrain the animals for second careers. Other breed registries seem to merely look the other way.
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How many people actually lift the lips of horses to see if they are registered in some way, shape or form? Even in the early 2000’s? Was that addressed in the original paper? It appears it was self-reported by the feedlots but I don’t know that to be the case.
I found this (2012) by AVMA. It doesn’t give a breed breakdown but has some numbers at least.
Oh, a bit more info from within that link:
Horse breed/type. The results suggest that Quarter horses sold at a
premium, relative to grade horses, which do not have a declared breed
registry. Ponies also tend to sell at a premium relative to grade horses,
for those ponies sold in the higher categories (i.e., quantiles). An
unexpected result was that other breed types, Paint horses,
Appaloosas, and Thoroughbred horses sold at either a discount or did
not show statistically significant difference in price, relative to grade
horses. This could have been due to the small number of observations
compared to other breeds and that for certain breeds, such as
Appaloosas, there could be a lack of buyers for these types of horses.
Then Appendix II has a chart and here is a footnote:
Notes: The estimates in the table that are statistically significant at the 0.05, 0.01, and 0.001 percent
levels are noted by one, two, or three asterisks, respectively.
Although the sales data included 27 breeds, the primary breed types were Quarter horses, 73.9
percent of the horses; grades (low-valued horses without breed designation), 12.1 percent; and Paint
horses, 11.9 percent; with a small number of observations for breeds such as ponies, 0.57 percent;
Appaloosas, 0.45 percent; and Thoroughbreds, 0.25 percent.
a
The upper bounds for the quantiles correspond to horses priced at $600 (20th), $1,000 (40th),
$1,400 (50th or median), $1,750 (60th), and $3,000 (80th).
Well yea because there’s no other industry where the horse’s primary career is usually done before they’re fully grown.
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