RugBug-
Have you hunted much? Just and honest question, not motivations. Just wanted to get perspective.
Now there you go. That’s what I’ve been saying all along.
I’ve been browsing some hunting catalogs. To the untrained eye, the clothes are similar. It would be like doing a ‘what’s different about these two pictures’…and depending on what you choose from the two to compare (cubbing to show hunters, as an example) and how experienced an eye is doing the comparison, the answers could vary significantly. To an experienced eye…you can see cut differences, dress boots over field boots, vests, stock-ties, canary breeches etc. Inexperienced Joe Schmoe isn’t going to see a lot of difference until he really studies the pictures.
[quote=SteeleRdr;3119665]I completely respect those who ride well and have nice horses and nice rounds, however, the question is more comparing the two, and there isn’t much to compare.
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I agree. And the issue for me was less that there aren’t differences NOW…but not recognizing that show hunter attire did derive from the foxhunting tradition.
You haven’t. And no one says that your attire isn’t derived from the hunt field. Actually, if you read the posts without the chip on your shoulder, you’d understand that not one foxhunter has bashed your discipline. We’ve all pointed out THE FACT that the two have become so disparate as to no longer be really comparable. Even the current riding style isn’t suited to the hunt field. It’s also not suited to the dressage ring. Or vaulting. Or underwater high speed precision BB stacking for that matter.
In fact, this forum is one that is almost completely devoid of bashing, trolling, and people going around being offended all the time. So please, either participate and have some fun or run off to the hunter forum and pout.
Back to the subject at hand:
And here I was just about to comment that if we looked at the current riding habits for various disciplines, the closest to formal hunting attire would really be the dressage habit for the upper level rider. At least at first blush.
If you think about it, members of the field (traditionally) would wear bowlers or top hats. Common in dressage; uncommon in show hunters and field hunters nowadays. Hunt caps were for staff. The shadbelly is formal, as are dress boots. All of which are common in dressage, not so much hunters - though it’s still seen. Stock ties and vests - common in dressage. Not as common in hunters.
But it’s just window dressing. What the attire derives from is really just semantics at this point. Dressing like a foxhunter doesn’t make you a foxhunter. Riding to hounds does.
If you also show your field hunter, more power to you. Some event their field hunters, others trail ride or do dressage. You don’t see them getting their knickers in a twist about the historical significance of their attire.
Now, now, children
The original post was fairly stated. And it’s a legitimate question. And I haven’t seen any bashing, only a bit of fun.
As for attire, I did, just for grins, show up in appointments class regalia for a ‘hunter pleasure’ class on my field hunter (qh) at an all breed show here in Utah. Bowler, sandwich case, string gloves where they belong, hunt whip, the works. I cheerfully answered a lot of questions. And won the class, so the presentation photo is fun. The question show ring riders should ask themselves is this: Is what you are wearing to jump a course of fences in a ring suitable for four hours or more out in the countryside? Will the coat keep you warm and dry in all kinds of weather? Will the breeches protect you from briars and brambles? Will your ‘neckwear’ also serve as an emergency sling or bandage for an injured horse or rider? If you can answer yes to all of these then yes, your attire is directly related to hunting attire. If the answer is no (chokers for example don’t have much practical use)- well then your attire is a kissin’ cousin.
As for the horse you are showing, I have no doubt the creature would do just fine at hunting- would probably enjoy it a lot!
Regarding the defensiveness/sensitivity of show ring riders who think they are being bashed- Get Over It. If you are enjoying what you are doing, why should you be concerned about the opinions of others? Consider that horse shows have evolved dramatically over the decades. Used to be there were a lot more saddlebred/fine harness classes, at the same shows as hunter/jumpers, because the average owner might have a field hunter that showed AND a ‘plantation horse’ AND one or more carriage horses, maybe saddlebreds, maybe hackneys, maybe Morgans. Much less of that these days. I do miss those big ol’ fashioned shows. But remember that way back when, shows were to show off what those horses were doing day in and day out as working animals or breeding stock to produce working animals. Those days are long gone! Showing is now fundamentally recreation and is the ‘job’ for most 21st century horses.
I’ve never hunted. There isn’t a whole lot of hunting in CA. :winkgrin: There is one sort of close…but I’ve seen pictures and a day out on XC seems similar to what they do…and I don’t have to wear a coat to do it. :lol:
I’m also not old enough to have participated in Corinthian/Appointments classes. My knowledge of foxhunting is limited to what history I know and what I can observe.
And just for further clarification…I’ve never said that show hunters of today resemble the field hunters. In fact, I’ve often said the opposite. But I do still believe that show hunters have their roots in field hunting. The tree has grown far from its roots, but if you look hard…you can still find them. 
Oh but you are wrong, there is a lot of fine hunting in California! Santa Fe, West Hills, Los Altos, Kingsbury Harriers. All very fun and very friendly!
Which is why people need to spend more time on this wonderful forum, so they can find out out these great opportunities!
How you don’t see the above comments as offensive is beyond me.
This thread doesn’t exist in the vacuum of the hunting forum. I’ve actually never even been in this forum before…until it was mentioned by LIS…whose knickers were in enough of a twist to come on over to prove some point. That point was SUPPOSE to be about attire. But it encompassed a lot more than just that. See here:
[quote=LookinSouth;3116264]Sorry I should clarify. The ATTIRE of today’s show hunters is not based on the tradition of foxhunting.
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That’s from the hunter forum thread and it sticks in my craw. I should just be a better person and let it go…but I currently choose not to be.
FWIW, hunters riders are quite sad to see the demise of top hats…usually worn in Classics with their shadbellies. Formal attire and all that. Helmet rules have banned them. Laziness has replace the tattersal or yellow vest with just shad points of any color under the sun. :shrug:
[QUOTE=SteeleRdr;3119665]
I do both hunters and field hunting…and sure the attire is DERIVED from what you wear hunting, but is NOTHING close to what we wear now. I’d get laughed out of the ring by some of the hunter princesses (and I am one when I show) if I showed up in my frock (egads, it looks like a dressage coat! but oh so different).
I completely respect those who ride well and have nice horses and nice rounds, however, the question is more comparing the two, and there isn’t much to compare.[/QUOTE]
That is exactly what I was going to say. If I chose to show in my black coat, stock tie with pin and beige string gloves I would probably get laughed off the grounds, not to mention my plain flat tack with no fancy stitching. And my sandwich case etc etc. Showing is about “look at me, aren’t i pretty”, whereas hunting is about “I’m here to work, let’s get it done.”
I have shown in my hunt colors before, and while no one actually said anything to my face, I did see several people staring.
But no one here is bashing anyone, and most of us here also show at hunter shows, and many have shown at some really big shows regularly in the past. I know I did.
But foxhunting and showing have taken very different paths.
Hence the jokes.
The only thing we have in common is that we’re both riding horses. The attire for show hunters is similar to attire for cubbing - and eventing - and dressage. In essence, just a very basic English riding habit. Boots, breeches, gloves, jacket, hat.
There - the similarity ends.
There is plenty of good hunting in California.
ETA - I’m not aware of any dispute in the other forum. I just responded to the OP’s question. If you’re upset about something she said on another thread - I understand but I don’t see why you need to continue the argument here. On this forum - we’re just a bunch of fun people that want to hunt and are eager to get others interested in and excited about foxhunting. Most of us show, event, or do all sorts of things in the off season.
The fact that some of us have shown up to show in proper hunting attire and been stared at should tell you something. When you see a real foxhunter - properly attired for a day’s hunting - and put a show hunter next to him/her - you’d see there is nothing more than a very vague similarity.
Though Janet may be related to William the Conqueror, I doubt she looks a lot like the guy. At least I hope not!
Good to know. 
I don’t know where Santa Fe is (my brain tells me New Mexico…but if you say CA, then so be it. ;)), or Kingsbury is (or are) but I do know Los Altos. Yea for me! I will keep them in mind if I decide to give hunting a try…and want to trailer for 4 hours. :winkgrin: The closest hunt to me…and the only one I’ve heard of is in Santa Ynez…and 1 1/2 from me.
Oh good god.:rolleyes:
Well unlike you I’ve been on this forum frequently, so I didn’t just wander over here randomly “to stir the pot” as you seem to think. Especially since around August when I inquired about hunts in CT. I quickly learned what I was missing from the very helpful, friendly and fun bunch on this forum. Maybe you should get over what my opinion is versus yours and do the same. I know I have.
And borrow a flask while your at it:lol:.
And tradition. :winkgrin: Because really, if it was all about ‘work, let’s get it done’…you’d wear high tech waterproof, wicking fabrics. You’d buy the easiest to find high quality tack that was affordable, flat or not, etc. Fox hunting is as stuck in its requirements/traditions as show hunters. Albeit, while those requirements used to be a lot closer to each other, they have gone down different paths you mentioned.
Deleted because I was being unnecessarily snarky to LIS.
[QUOTE=RugBug;3119783]
And tradition. :winkgrin: Because really, if it was all about ‘work, let’s get it done’…you’d wear high tech waterproof, wicking fabrics. You’d buy the easiest to find high quality tack that was affordable, flat or not, etc. Fox hunting is as stuck in its requirements/traditions as show hunters. Albeit, while those requirements used to be a lot closer to each other, they have gone down different paths you mentioned.[/QUOTE]
That’s not completely true for hunting attire. You seem to be under the impression that we shouldn’t wear meltons because they aren’t “high tech.” However, they are wool, and warm and keep the rain away to an extent. Most of the things we wear have a purpose, like Beverley has put forth. Yes, tradition is part of it, but our things still have function. And since you HAVEN’T hunted, how do you know we don’t wear high tech waterproof??? I know I do if I hunt when it rains and the master’s allow rain gear. As for wicking fabrics…I wear them, they are noticeable since they are UNDER my clothes. I wear an Under Armour turtle neck many times out hunting.
I think you really need to look at it in the reverse. Think of how many people would laugh at me showing up in a frock, with topped boots, and flat tack. Whereas, when you come hunting, no one would laugh/stare/make snide comments about you dressing in “show” attire. Lots of hunts are a LOT more lenient on style than I think you realize. And GASP, some even let people hunt in western tack!!!
Actually, some foxhunters do wear high tech fabrics. Each hunt is a private club; and the Masters dictate what attire is deemed appropriate. Some hunts are very permissive; mostly due to local climate. (there was a thread here recently in which some folks in arid climates showed us pictures of their green square saddle pads, complete with canteen, sunglasses - others told us of wearing parkas, etc.)
Meltons are waterproof. The purpose of foxhunting is to actually go hunting; to ride to hounds. Some of us may be overly fond of formal attire, or wax poetic over our new tweed, but no one blinks if their finery is ruined by barbed wire or an unfortunate fall in the water. Tough thick clothes; tough boots, tough horses, tough people. And thank God for a real strong 4 fold stock tie. They really can be used as a bandage or splint.
One of my favorite photographs appeared in an issue of Covertside. It was of a woman who had fallen in a pond or river and was pouring water out of her boot with a huge grin on her face. She was filthy and laughing and just beautiful. Fabulous photo.
Foxhunters are nuttier than a fruitcake.
No, no. I’m not under that impression. I’m under the impression that if the comment is true that hunting is all about work…that it wouldn’t matter what you wear. Wool IS a highly functional fabric (one of the best) but there are newer fabrics with the same function and less bulk (that don’t stink when they get wet :winkgrin:). Just like there are different styles of tack that probably do the same thing as flat tack. Traditions and requirements are born out of purpose and necessity. Sometimes, those traditions continue even though the necessity can be met in other ways. Yes?
I think Moesha, whom I believe hunts (I’ve seen pictures of him on a horse at a hunt, so I think he does) brought up the western tack thing. That’s awesome.
And you’re very right. Young show hunter riders WOULD snark at someone coming to a show in hunting attire. 'Course they also might do that if you are wearing a hunter green coat. Such is how it is with young girls. Older riders might fondly recollect when they did appointments classes. In between riders that have any knowledge of hunters/tradition might think it was cool. Whose to say?
(As an aside, so you know I’m not trying to pretend like I know what I don’t…where can I find a picture of a ‘frock?’ I keep picturing a kindergarten painting smock thing and with the beauty of hunting attire…I know that’s not even close :lol:)
That’s awesome. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Well, OK. You get partial credit for having good taste. I just splurged and ordered custom Dehner’s (dress).
My current dress boots are actually dressage boots.
Shhh… don’t tell anyone.
A frock looks similar to a dressage coat. The waist is defined and the skirt is longer. I used to wear one for dressage tests. Heck - I got it for 10$ at a tack swap. Never been a slave to fashion.
An interesting factoid about hunting attire is that it’s often passed down. Another lady I hunt with has some of her grandmother’s appointments and clothes. Much of this stuff is just beautifully made; the kind of work you just don’t see anymore.
Perhaps that is one of the attractions of hunting? That in this day and age - when everything is so fast, so instant, ready made and easily tossed aside - that there is still a place where beauty and function are intertwined. The commands the huntsman uses with the hounds would be recognized by hunters in the 1600’s. The breeding of the hounds goes back even farther.
I’m probably being a bit too romantic about it. The clothes we wear - they have to stand up to hard use in harsh conditions. It’s not the same as show clothes. A person on this forum graciously sent me a pair of brown spur straps when I started hunting. I’ll keep them - they have a history. Same with my sandwich case (bought from the same person). That sandwich case was carried by a foxhunter for many years. It has a history. It’s not just a sandwich case.
This stuff isn’t just stuff. People attach sentimental value to their whips, a hand me down jacket, their grandmother’s riding gloves. You just don’t see that in other disciplines.
[QUOTE=RugBug;3119783]
And tradition. :winkgrin: Because really, if it was all about ‘work, let’s get it done’…you’d wear high tech waterproof, wicking fabrics. You’d buy the easiest to find high quality tack that was affordable, flat or not, etc. Fox hunting is as stuck in its requirements/traditions as show hunters. Albeit, while those requirements used to be a lot closer to each other, they have gone down different paths you mentioned.[/QUOTE]
Obviously you have never worn a Melton in the freezing cold and/or pouring rain. There is a reason they wear those in England. You would have been warm and dry if you had been wearing one. I have been known to wear long underwear when needed. And who says I don’t buy the highest quality tack? I Just happen to make sure it is flat if I intend to use it for hunting. Our requirements and traditions are there for a reason, for safety, comfort and practicality, not to mention some ettiquette ones (like wearing string gloves, black gloves are for mourning).
What “traditions” do show hunters have for the above reasons? (of course safety would be helmets with harnesses, but that goes without saying). I showed hunters on the A circuit for years before I began hunting, and I am not aware of one thing they do that is for function over form. It’s all about what it looks like in the ring, not about safety, comfort or protection.
