[QUOTE=LookinSouth;3120793]
By all means, disagree However, my statement stands; comparing today’s Show Hunter attire to Field Hunter attire is a stretch at best . There is more than enough to CONTRAST however. Obviously, I am not the only that feels this way.
In regards to “hunt coats”, I suspect that’s a term that the H/J industry came up with on it’s own. In foxhunting I am not aware of any jacket that is called a " hunt coat". During informal season they wear tweeds and during formal season navy or black meltons. But that’s just my observations, it’s not neccessarily true.[/QUOTE]
One thing of note about h/j “hunt coats” is that they are usually double vented, which isn’t necessarily the most proper for hunting. Hunt coats/hacking jackets are usually single vented, as J Swan made mention of.
I just wanted to STRONGLY disagree with this. What you are going for in both is a horse properly jumping: Even knees, tight below, with a good bascule. Just because you see some horses out hunting that are not in proper form over a fence does not mean that there are not many, many others who have proper, or ideal, “show hunter” form out hunting.
How far do you have to go in your quest to be right?
Yep, the hunter riders of yesteryear all sat around one day with their flasks and decided that when they wore their coat to a show, they would call it a hunt coat, if they wore it foxhunting it would be called something else. :rolleyes:
There was NO “H/J industry” in the beginning. It was foxhunters gathering with friends and showing off their horses during the off season from hunting. Whatever show hunters has become…it started in the hunt field. Just because you don’t want to connect the two these days, doesn’t meant they weren’t connected in the past.
Janet: Thanks for the link and the explanation. I thought that was the coat that was being described and had seen a picture. It looks quite similar to a dressage coat to me.
I’ve NEVER tried to argue that what is worn in the hunter ring is based on function. That’s the problem with continuing with a thought into a new thread…if you haven’t read the other…the ones new to the discussion don’t know what’s been said or not. I’ve just maintained that the reasons we wear what we wear in the hunter ring is because it is based/derived from the tradition of foxhunting. Here was a quick summary from the other thread:
Now…the reasons wear what we wear is because of the foxhunting tradition alone. The reasons foxhunters wear what they wear is because it is practical, safe, and functional…as well as traditional. Really, there’s no longer a reason for hunter riders to wear long sleeved shirts or hunt coats. The only items of apparel that have a function in the hunter ring are gloves (not even a requirement), helmet and breeches. The rest is just ‘uniform.’ It’s what we wear to show in. Like a sports team has a specific uniform for games.
[quote=Dance_To_Oblivion;3120042]Not trying to be argumentative or difficult but I don’t exactly know what requirements/traditions you refer to when it comes to show hunters.
[/quote]
Requirements: Hunt coat, breeches, boots, ratcatcher.
Tradition: There really is little reason to wear much of that if not for tradition. It would be MUCH easier and more comfortable to show in my jeans with full chaps, my Ariat Terrains, and a tank top.
Don’t make the mistake that just because there are trends that there isn’t still a requirement behind the trend. For example: Those new alternative coat things that look similar to a hunt coat but are like a zip up jacket? They haven’t caught on. They don’t meet the requirement. I doubt they will catch on until we are even further removed from the hunt field. Until the people that can remember foxhunting and even have the slightest clue about the traditions are hobbling around with their canes. The whole trend in jumpers to wear polos…there are some that do, but there are also a whole lot of traditionalists that still wear a coat and shirt.
The saddles, the labels, the whatever, is just a function of an elite sport dominated by people with money. It’s not a function of the sport. Afterall, how else are you going to prove that you ‘belong’ without the artificial signposts of the helmet du jour, the right coat, breeches, saddle, etc? Keeping up with the Joneses isn’t exclusive to hunters. It’s prevalent in everyday life. I’m hard pressed to blame hunters for the failings of the human psyche.
Who said I am right? Who said anyone is right? It IS AN OPINION.
Trixie said she doesn’t agree with ME?? If someone refers to something they claim I SAID I have a right to respond to it. period.
Clearly my opinion is not unique as witnessed in this thread. There are several posts that echo the EXACT commentary I made over in the other thread.
Does that make it right or correct? No, but it certainly doesn’t make my opinion outlandish like some of you over in Hunterland would LIKE to think. I gave up a looonnng time ago trying to come to any consensus with a handful of you (and you know who you are).
You have a chip on your shoulder about ANYTHING I have to say. I swear, if we discussed whether the earth was flat or round the same people would try to find even the most minute detail of incorrectness in the argument that the earth is round.
I don’t care anymore, but GET OVER IT. It is tiresome for both parties. Like JSwan said, if you want whine, complain and wallow then move on back over to the “other” forum. I thought WE had moved beyond this.
I freely admit that I’m being more than a little bitchy towards you. But really, if you wanted it to be over, you wouldn’t post crap like the above. Telling someone to GET OVER IT, has the exact opposite effect.
I will, however, do my best to no longer respond to you. I don’t want to put you on ignore, because by golly I would lose a whole lot of entertainment, but I will bite my tongue (fingers?) and do my best to curb the desire to reply to your posts.
(Original post didnt go through so this is a summary of what i was writing)
Heres what I’ve drawn from the dicussion
YES everyone would love to gallop in the field and feel that incredible power of an eager field hunter beneath you.
YES mostly everyone would love to go into the show ring and put down a perfect round. Lets face it, its nice to be the Hunter Princess every once in a while. I mean, who doesnt want to ride a perfect course on a made horse who not only moves well but jumps with the most incredible bascule?
But this was a little problematic:
The way the riders ride would get them killed in the hunt field, so it’s probably a good thing. The cat in heat/praying mantis pose over fences is terrifying to watch.
I take personal offence to that…Im a show ring rider but Im able to go out on a Hunter Pace and ride the same way that I do in the ring and get around perfectly safe and secure. Its a stereotype, there are those “posing riders” but then there are those who really RIDE.
Who said I am right? Who said anyone is right? It IS AN OPINION.
Trixie said she doesn’t agree with ME?? If someone refers to something they claim I SAID I have a right to respond to it. period.
Clearly my opinion is not unique as witnessed in this thread. There are several posts that echo the EXACT commentary I made over in the other thread.
Does that make it right or correct? No, but it certainly doesn’t make my opinion outlandish like some of you over in Hunterland would LIKE to think. I gave up a looonnng time ago trying to come to any consensus with a handful of you (and you know who you are).
You have a chip on your shoulder about ANYTHING I have to say. I swear, if we discussed whether the earth was flat or round the same people would try to find even the most minute detail of incorrectness in the argument that the earth is round.
I don’t care anymore, but GET OVER IT. It is tiresome for both parties. Like JSwan said, if you want whine, complain and wallow then move on back over to the “other” forum. I thought WE had moved beyond this.
Where’s my flask when I need it? Geesh[/QUOTE]
Well said. From previous experience with DTO and RB (check out some other postings and you will see) there is no point engaging them. Just looking for a fight. I have no interest in the passive aggressive BS myself and will no longer take the bait. So thank you for so eloquently summing it up!
I think that the underlying “ideal” for a show hunter is still based on attributes that anyone would like to have in a field hunter (if those attributes “stuck” in the great outdoors). Surely most people would like to hunt a calm horse, who doesn’t need to hurry to keep up. One with a nice, comfortable step. One that needs little or no rating to meet a fence correctly. One with safe jumping form (though perhaps the dramatic bascule favored by a show hunter today is not so ideal). One that isn’t craning his head like a giraffe or prone to bucking. One that is attractive and nicely turned out- regardless of the definition of turnout- at minimum, shiny, healthy. One with the ability to stand quietly in a group.
Now- the test has changed. The jumps have changed and the courses have changed and the pace has been notched back quite a few degrees. But the principle of rewarding a safe, reliable, comfortable horse that looks good doing the job has not.
As for with clothes… I don’t think the basic hunter/jumper “outfit” has evoloved. 20 years ago I wore beige breeches, black boots, a shirt with a choker and a navy jacket. It seems like with hunting, there is far “more” to attire with different pieces appropriate to different times of the year.
One of the coolest things is the class I saw at Upperville- I believe it was an invitational hunter hack and riders wore clothes from the past. It was pretty neat.
If your position is correct, and you’re not laying on your horse’s neck, with long stirrups, your ass stuck in the air like a cat in heat, and your crotch in front of the pommel, then my statement does not apply to you, and you need not be offended. You can only be offended if you fit the description of the rider I described. And even then - get over it.
What I don’t understand is why y’all are coming over on this forum to defend a discipline that no one is even interested in talking about. You’ve starting an argument, continuing to belabor points that no one is disagreeing with, and insisting upon being offended if anyone clarifies or disagrees with a point. We’re EXPLAINING. If you are not willing to accept the answer because it does not fit your preconceived notion - then don’t ask the darn question.
How do y’all manage to get through life being so sensitive? Nothing so annoying as people with a martyr complex.
No one here is disparaging your sport. No one is interested in disparaging your sport. Get it? No?
This is a foxhunting forum. We like to talk about HUNTING. Some of us also compete in other sports, too. Including show hunters. Many of us actually do show h/j as well as hunt. I doubt many of us are ignorant about the discipline. But if we wanted to discuss it - we’d go to the h/j forum.
If you want to talk about hunting or start hunting, or ask questions, welcome.
If you want to use this forum as a spillover for arguments or to continue a trainwreck from another forum, buzz off. No foxhunter tolerates kennel fights.
You are correct in your explanation of the origins of hunter showing. That’s why it was called “hunter” showing. People were showing their hunters to keep them fit in the off season and for something to do. And I don’t think anyone disagrees that field hunting and showing hunters were intertwined back in the day. However, I also don’t think that anyone will disagree (except maybe you, Rugbug) with the statement that there has been a rather dramatic divergence of the two and they really are not related anymore. I would hazard a guess that the number of horses at any hunter show that have actually hunted, and done so for a period of time (5 hunts does not a field hunter make) is very small (of course the area of the country you’re in would play a part in that).
So this isn’t about anyone being right or wrong. You brought your pot stirring stick over to the HUNTING forum from the HUNTER forum, hoping to pick a fight, and what you got was an intelligent discussion from people who have ACTUALLY HUNTED AND QUITE A BIT who are not telling you what you want to hear, and you are going to keep beating your drum until someone does.
No one is saying there is anything wrong with hunting being what it is or showing being what it is, they are two different entities to themselves and both equally deserving.
So either get back in the ring and show your hunter and be happy about it, or come out and hunt with us and learn about what you are trying to argue. We would love to have you.
[QUOTE=gg4918;3121082
YES mostly everyone would love to go into the show ring and put down a perfect round. Lets face it, its nice to be the Hunter Princess every once in a while. I mean, who doesnt want to ride a perfect course on a made horse who not only moves well but jumps with the most incredible bascule?
But this was a little problematic:
I take personal offence to that…Im a show ring rider but Im able to go out on a Hunter Pace and ride the same way that I do in the ring and get around perfectly safe and secure. Its a stereotype, there are those “posing riders” but then there are those who really RIDE.[/QUOTE]
No you don’t necessarily want the “incredible bascule” in the hunt field. That would get old over trappy terrain after 3 or 4 hours and be very hard to ride. You want a nice safe competent jumper.
And I am thrilled that you came out of the ring and tried a hunter pace, they are a blast and a great introduction to riding out of the ring. But the difference between a hunter pace and an actual foxhunt are night and day.
You brought your pot stirring stick over to the HUNTING forum
I believe it was LookinSouth who did that. Isn’t LS the OP who started this thread here on the hunting form? :no:
Well whoever brought it over needs to take it back. Rugbug seems to be helping to carry it around. We don’t need any kennel fights over here.
Those two have their own little scab picking contest going on and they need to take it somewhere else. We aren’t playing their game over here
She just asked a question. I don’t believe any of us knew about the train wreck in the other forum, nor do we give a rat’s ass about how important it is to someone in the h/j forum that they cling to their mistaken belief that their show clothes are just like real foxhunting attire.
It’s pretty freakin’ stupid to even argue about it. You don’t see foxhunters going over to the dressage forum starting arguments about how our stock ties are JUST like the dressage stock ties.
Belaboring a nonsensical point in which no one is interested is about as annoying as being stuck in an elevator with someone who has just farted.
[QUOTE=J Swan;3121219]
She just asked a question. I don’t believe any of us knew about the train wreck in the other forum, nor do we give a rat’s ass about how important it is to someone in the h/j forum that they cling to their mistaken belief that their show clothes are just like real foxhunting attire.
It’s pretty freakin’ stupid to even argue about it. You don’t see foxhunters going over to the dressage forum starting arguments about how our stock ties are JUST like the dressage stock ties.
Belaboring a nonsensical point in which no one is interested is about as annoying as being stuck in an elevator with someone who has just farted.[/QUOTE]
I did read part of the other thread but didn’t make the connection til partway through this one.
Love your last comment btw. Now I have to explain to our IT dept why I have another keyboard with coke all over it.
Nope, I actually agree with everything you said. :winkgrin:
So this isn’t about anyone being right or wrong. You brought your pot stirring stick over to the HUNTING forum from the HUNTER forum, hoping to pick a fight, and what you got was an intelligent discussion from people who have ACTUALLY HUNTED AND QUITE A BIT who are not telling you what you want to hear, and you are going to keep beating your drum until someone does.
I didn’t bring the argument here. I followed it…and by invitation of the OP. I’m not too sure that what has been posted here that ‘isn’t what I want to hear’ except for the unflattering comments/jibes about hunters. Sure, I don’t like hearing that…even though I can admit that much of it is true. If I went to the hunter forum, made some stereotypical comments about fox hunters and provided a link for y’all, I’m sure there would be some vim and vigor.
No one is saying there is anything wrong with hunting being what it is or showing being what it is, they are two different entities to themselves and both equally deserving.
So either get back in the ring and show your hunter and be happy about it, or come out and hunt with us and learn about what you are trying to argue. We would love to have you.
Maybe I’ll do both. :winkgrin:
Heh. Ouch. :lol: I didn’t even know who you were until I searched for all your posts. I’ve had one previous experience with you, on the very same hunter ‘slam’ thread. You didn’t like what I had to say. :shrug: I wasn’t the only one who took exception to parts of what you posted.
And just for Jaegermonster: I’ll quit carrying around this argument.
However, my statement stands; comparing today’s Show Hunter attire to Field Hunter attire is a stretch at best . There is more than enough to CONTRAST however. Obviously, I am not the only that feels this way.
