After all the hard work it takes to get into vet school… That’s going to put quite a dent in that class if they all get expelled.
Wow. How stupid can you be? Everyone knows if you cheat in college you can pretty much throw away any chance at a college degree, anywhere. No college will touch these students with a 10 foot pole now.
I guess I have too much faith in students’ honesty. My thought when I saw the thread title was this was going to be a thread about OSU cheating vet students out of something! LOL
As an educator, this line resonated with me:
The incident raised questions about whether a current academic and business-world emphasis on collaboration and working in teams has blurred students’ understanding of what constitutes cheating.
I haven’t been in educator all that long, but I feel like in my short time, cheating has become rampant. “Kids” today just don’t have a problem with it.
And I’ll bet money if OSU decides to boot these students, someone will take legal action and find some loophole. We have a “zero tolerance” cheating policy where I work, but good luck trying to enforce it. I have a colleague who recently lost her job, partly due to the backlash she created with parents from things like regularly enforcing the cheating policy. You’d think parents would be happy about a teacher following the rules and not letting their children get away with cheating, but no, they came after her with torches and pitchforks. :no:
The incident raised questions about whether a current academic and business-world emphasis on collaboration and working in teams has blurred students’ understanding of what constitutes cheating.
This line made me giggle.
I highly doubt anyone thought they were not cheating.
I think everyone knows the difference between group projects and a test.
Well blurred lines is the norm now. As well as the lack of ethics and morals.
And how about the parents buying a fancy ass attorney and the kid pleading not guilty to something that they got caught red-handed doing? Kids come by many things in life honestly.
And the parent that picks up the sunglasses left by someone else and announces finders keepers. I made my kids turn in some sunglasses they found in a gas station bathroom even tho we knew that they likely weren’t going to get retrieved. It’s the point of it folks.
The first time my kids did something right on their own my reaction to them was ‘how did that make you feel?’ It’s not about rewards it’s about who you are in life. And life is a big lesson. I hope that they make this stick for these kids. They had to know the risk involved.
The college also has stopped using the software for any exams or quizzes on which collaboration is banned and, in the future, won’t assign take-home tests on which collaboration isn’t allowed.
^ Seriously?? The school never thought that would happen? That sounds like the students had a better understanding of testing technology than the school did.
I am truly boggled that anyone would assign computer take-home tests and be “surprised” when there was cheating.
(speaking as someone who used them as low-stakes assessments only, for that very reason)
[QUOTE=trubandloki;8698264]
This line made me giggle.
I highly doubt anyone thought they were not cheating.
I think everyone knows the difference between group projects and a test.[/QUOTE]
You may laugh, but there truly is a disconnect these days with the omnipresence of information. In one situation, using your resources or collaborating to reach an answer is lauded, but in a different situation, it’s considered cheating.
And yeah, this was a test and these were adult students. They definitely knew better. But with the lines being so blurry anymore, students don’t seem to have the same moral opposition to cheating as they did 20 years ago. Instead of “learning a lesson” from getting caught, these days they often fight back or just find a different means to cheat.
[QUOTE=Texarkana;8698259]
As an educator, this line resonated with me:
I haven’t been in educator all that long, but I feel like in my short time, cheating has become rampant. “Kids” today just don’t have a problem with it.
And I’ll bet money if OSU decides to boot these students, someone will take legal action and find some loophole. We have a “zero tolerance” cheating policy where I work, but good luck trying to enforce it. I have a colleague who recently lost her job, partly due to the backlash she created with parents from things like regularly enforcing the cheating policy. You’d think parents would be happy about a teacher following the rules and not letting their children get away with cheating, but no, they came after her with torches and pitchforks. :no:[/QUOTE]
That is so true. I used to teach university chemistry on the side and also had a no tolerance policy on cheating. The backlash from enforcing it was ridiculous. I once got accused of being racist because I gave three students a zero for passing notes during an exam and for talking to each other. They only got their papers taken away after receiving two prior warnings. The students ran to the dean, called me a racist, and then the dean asked to meet with me. I explained what my syllabus said, what these students did during the exam to which the dean said “You’ve got a problem in this class, what are you going to do about it?” I then put a 5 page document on their desk that listed all the infractions these students had committed during the semester. The dean said “oh” and I never had a problem with those students again. At the end they got the grade they deserved exactly according to the formula in the syllabus, no more and no less.
Kind of silly in a way considering I’ve dated guys of different racial backgrounds. They wouldn’t have known that though.
Anyway, the university was so worried about keeping numbers up in their departments and fighting to get more students to keep their funding up that there was an enormous amount of pandering to the students. These were from good state schools too!! Ridiculous!!
I also saw a lot of students struggling to complete degrees in 4 years and many taking 5 simply because classes were overcrowded and many couldn’t get the classes they needed in order to graduate, but that’s another story.
According to the article, which is sparse on facts, we don’t know if it was a quiz, a test, or an exam that is in question, the investigation is over and the punishments have been dealt out. This could simply have been a quiz to make sure everyone was on track in the course with a low count towards a grade. If it was a low-level quiz, I can’t imagine anyone getting the boot. We also don’t know if this was a course which relied heavily on online instruction with the quizzes built into the program while the instructor discussed additional material during the actual class, or if it was a traditional brick and mortar course, with the professor giving out the test online to save him or herself some production time. These differences all matter when assessing whether to deal out a low punishment or short-circuit someone’s potential career. And to be honest, I don’t know of a professor who doesn’t know that students are going to talk outside of the classroom about take home assignments, regardless of what they are. Stupidity goes all the way around on this one.
As for the computer test pattern issue and cheating, I personally know of someone who is visually brilliant and stumbled upon a pattern while taking the SAT’s years ago, so said individual filled in the pattern and turned it in. The score was off the charts, accusations of cheating went through the building like a bush fire, and no matter how hard the individual explained the truth of what they did, the student was labeled a cheater by both the faculty and the administration and offered two paths: retake the exam, or exit the program. The student retook the exam, deliberately changed some right answers to ones that were wrong, sailed through it with an almost as high score, and graduated. I am having a hard time believing that out of the 85 students indicted for cheated there aren’t some who in truth did their job as they should have done it, or saw a pattern that no one wants to admit exists, and wound up swept up in the net, anyway. That’s an awfully high number of people being bagged in a supposedly patternless test. jmo.
[QUOTE=Ghazzu;8698295]
I am truly boggled that anyone would assign computer take-home tests and be “surprised” when there was cheating.
(speaking as someone who used them as low-stakes assessments only, for that very reason)[/QUOTE]
Ditto. Used to use testing software like this for sales people. They took pretests with it. Count me not surprised, especially given the, uh, “creativity” of sales people, when we got about 50 that were exactly alike.
Does not excuse cheating but bad software selection for sure.
Besides students collaborating, would one just not set up another laptop to Google something they didn’t know?
[QUOTE=Ghazzu;8698295]
I am truly boggled that anyone would assign computer take-home tests and be “surprised” when there was cheating.
(speaking as someone who used them as low-stakes assessments only, for that very reason)[/QUOTE]
My first thought was, “It’s an online test they take at home, and you think they won’t cheat??? Are you dumb???” Right or wrong, it’s like leaving the shetland in the grain room. There are ridiculous numbers of ways to cheat any test you take home, let alone the computer ones.
[QUOTE=Ghazzu;8698295]
I am truly boggled that anyone would assign computer take-home tests and be “surprised” when there was cheating.
(speaking as someone who used them as low-stakes assessments only, for that very reason)[/QUOTE]
yeah, that was the most shocking thing to me…
And for anyone that thinks this is something new…no… If the means had been available way back when, people would have used it, and vet students are people…
I caught cheaters in the classes I taught (funny how everyone in the same group gets the exact same wrong answer…). I saw cheaters in classes I took.
On a take home test, I guarantee a large number of people are going to work together…
There’s a reason we sat every other seat and had different versions of the tests…
Although I once had a group of students give the same off the wall answer to an exam question, and I knew they weren’t cheating during the exam itself.
When I commented on it, one of the students said, sheepishly, “we all studied together”, and apparently the group accepted one member’s googled explanation as correct.
Ugh, who wants a vet who cheated to get a degree?
I graduated from a college where the honor code worked. Once or twice a year some girl (women’s college, presby religion) would steal and she would be expelled. Forever. Ditto my law school (UGA) where the honor code worked and maybe once or twice a year someone would steal a book and get booted out of school forever.
No locks on dorm doors or anything in college.
No locks on lockers in law school.
Anyone who cheats on exams should be kicked out. My animals need treatment by vets who know what they are doing. No one to cheat with when a vet is in private practice.
Even Harvard kicked Teddy Kennedy out for cheating. (Actually didn’t he pay to have someone take an exam for him?)
[QUOTE=pony grandma;8698289]
Well blurred lines is the norm now. As well as the lack of ethics and morals.
And how about the parents buying a fancy ass attorney and the kid pleading not guilty to something that they got caught red-handed doing? Kids come by many things in life honestly.
And the parent that picks up the sunglasses left by someone else and announces finders keepers. I made my kids turn in some sunglasses they found in a gas station bathroom even tho we knew that they likely weren’t going to get retrieved. It’s the point of it folks.
The first time my kids did something right on their own my reaction to them was ‘how did that make you feel?’ It’s not about rewards it’s about who you are in life. And life is a big lesson. I hope that they make this stick for these kids. They had to know the risk involved.[/QUOTE]
I found a $20 bill in our arena while out riding. the younger woman with me says Hello, lets all get ice cream! :(
I turned it in and the BM knew who lost it. I am still shocked by that woman’s response.
[QUOTE=cloudyandcallie;8698612]
Ugh, who wants a vet who cheated to get a degree?
I graduated from a college where the honor code worked. Once or twice a year some girl (women’s college, presby religion) would steal and she would be expelled. Forever. Ditto my law school (UGA) where the honor code worked and maybe once or twice a year someone would steal a book and get booted out of school forever.
No locks on dorm doors or anything in college.
No locks on lockers in law school.
Anyone who cheats on exams should be kicked out. My animals need treatment by vets who know what they are doing. No one to cheat with when a vet is in private practice.
Even Harvard kicked Teddy Kennedy out for cheating. (Actually didn’t he pay to have someone take an exam for him?)[/QUOTE]
my thoughts exactly! so if each of these cheaters became a vet, who’s to say if they will cheat doing testing on your ill dog or horse?
[QUOTE=Ghazzu;8698581]
Although I once had a group of students give the same off the wall answer to an exam question, and I knew they weren’t cheating during the exam itself.
When I commented on it, one of the students said, sheepishly, “we all studied together”, and apparently the group accepted one member’s googled explanation as correct.[/QUOTE]
yeah, I realize that happens too (I’ve actually seen it), but without going into the details of the specific case, in this case it was pretty clear what happened…
