Owning vs. Taking Lessons - what would you do? (update: I bought him, added a pix!)

[Gatorade]

I do think you are right that the stall hold cost is putting a lot of pressure on myself - as is the COVID situation. There is a pony at the barn that my child has free use of and so that barn is our daily escape from the house and from everything else. It is a beautiful facility with great boarders and great footing and I like going there every day. I think the desire not to lose that is absolutely adding pressure and perhaps making me make a decision I wouldn’t otherwise make. Appreciate y’all making that point.

Todays lesson at another barn will be really good for me.

I did look for a lease horse and the only one that seemed like a good fit was very lame - I don’t even understand how the owner thought he was ok. I’ve seen videos of countless horses that all seem off. I’ve looked in the $10K-$15K price range and I don’t really find anything better, TBH. I would need to shell out $20K, and I don’t really want to do that. I also don’t mind a project horse - I like the challenge. I get what you are all saying about my confidence and a BTDT horse but I am good on the flat and I am good up to like 2’6". Like, confident enough that I feel fine riding a green horse at that level. Again, my lease horse, while he had done upper level stuff, was not the easiest guy - there was a reason his owners sort of hoisted him upon me - no one else rode him as well (owners were selling stable and retiring, hence the need to change barns).

Again, the horse isn’t head bobbing lame - it really is subtle - I’ve seen worse horses pass for sound at other barns. And the vet wants him worked.

[Ruth0552]

I’m curious about what part of the country you are in. In New England, the horse market it bonkers right now. There’s NOTHING for sale and things that are for sale that are decent get sold in minutes. It’s like a hot real estate market but you’re dealing with a living creature and it’s just wacko.

I do want to point out that it sounds like you are into eventing and you posted in the off course forum. Personally, I think jumping 3’ in hunter/jumper land and jumping 3’ in eventing land are two different things. There’s a lot more style required for hunter/jumpers and I feel more scope required for Novice cross country. The budgets, depending on what level of showing one wants to do, are definitely not the same. I remember when I was a kid and buying a pony, like every horse advertised “jumped 3 feet”. I know if you’d posted in the eventing forum a bunch of posters would tell you that practically anything can do beginner novice. I don’t think that’s really true, but anyways, you are likely getting responses from people coming from a variety of disciplines.

I think you need to decide on your goals. If you want to be doing Novice level, and you know that is a GOAL, you need a horse that has BTDT and you will not get a BTDT Novice horse for 5-8K. Maybe more like 10-12K depending on what area you’re in. Or, at least I’ve seen some advertised in NE in that price range. If you want to stick with 2’6"-2’9" jumps, you can probably spend within your budget, and get something that has done it before. You might get lucky and get something that actually has the potential to do a bit more. If you are really comfortable up to 2’6" and on the flat, then getting a young horse might work if you are willing to pay for training later at the higher levels.

Also, every horse you look at will have something wrong with it. It’s just a matter of knowing what it is and how to manage it. IMO.

Again, it’s a crazy time. Perhaps not a great time to buy a horse. Market is nuts. Have you tried an ISO ad? I think there are people out there with horses that perhaps don’t want to advertise for sale/lease because they don’t want to deal with god knows who showing up with covid to try the horse. You might find something that isn’t advertised.

[Gatorade]

Thank you Ruth0552 - really appreciate your points. California and the vet told me that the market is crazy now too. Yes, I’ve heard all horses can do BN a lot too. Trial #1 was a BTDT horse (novice) and was currently being ridden western (which raised the flags as to why he changed disciplines) - so, he was always a long shot to get a beautiful BTDT horse at a cheap price and when he didn’t vet out well at all (we didn’t even do a full PPE, we just had the vet do a lameness evaluation), and given his age, we were all like it’s a pass. I think that’s why vet is trying to see if we can make this one work - he has good confirmation, a very good brain, good foundational training, seems very willing. I need more rides on him since I haven’t ridden him much. So, next two weeks will be very helpful.

I have done ISO as well as reach out to people that have been recommended to me. It’s actually how I found trial #2 horse. And he was supposed to be totally sound and comes from a trusted person…we all thought it was just a stone bruise.

Yes, it scares me to think of buying a horse with known issues. But I also understand that horses can break at any point. And if vet thinks this can be managed? But, also, to the original question, maybe I am just better off at a lesson barn and not have to stress and pay for the horse care side of things. Sigh.

[Obsidian_Fire]

Just don’t buy the lame horse. If it’s “subtle” now, wait until he’s in full work. Guarantee it won’t be subtle then. Every single poster has said to walk away. You seem bent on “making this work”. It’s your money and your heartache, but still a bad idea.
The poster who cautioned you on OTTB’s is exactly spot on. They are quirky, no matter how else wonderful they are. And the average horse? Ain’t got nothing on
the reaction time of a TB.

[zebra_stripes]

@Gatorade

He did bolt and buck but he never got me off

@Gatorade

Again,my lease horse, while he had done upper level stuff, was not the easiest guy - there was a reason his owners sort of hoisted him upon me - no one else rode him as well

These two statements kind of stood out to me. Look, not trying to knock you at all but riding a horse that bolts and bucks is not always the accomplishment that people think it is. Because quite honestly, horses bolt and buck for a reason and when you keep riding them over fences without fixing the problem, that’s a problem. Just being able to stick on a horse that’s misbehaving isn’t horse training - it’s just an ability to stick. I don’t know any of the backstory of this but nowhere do you say anything about fixing the problem, just being able to handle it. Quite honestly, it’s another red flag about your trainer that I’m not crazy about and it’s another reason to keep away from a green horse because, again, just being able to ride rough stuff does not equal being able to train it away.

I am not trying to be hypercritical of you - I don’t know you. I’m just going by what you yourself have said here. As for the subtle lameness, whether the vet wants him worked or not isn’t really the issue. The issue is whether you should buy a lame horse and I think it’s always a bad idea.

[Gatorade]

Sorry, don’t mean to seem like I am not taking everyone’s point seriously. I mean, I am paying to take a lesson elsewhere today - that is how serious I am about making the decision. Do I just wish this guy would work out? Yes, I clearly do. But I am still looking at horse ads and I am taking a lesson tonight at a different barn. And if I like the lesson, I’ll take some more and figure it out from there.

On the lease horse: when I moved to this trainer, we could not nicely canter ground poles (I mentioned this in prior post). Before he left, we were doing 2’6" courses pretty nicely - I mean, we wouldn’t have won a hunter class, but he wasn’t a hunter. On the flat, he was always good about his flat work (think shoulder in, haunches in, counter canter if you are trying to get a sense of what we were working on) but would spook, etc, especially at the beginning. By the time he left, I could warm him up on the buckle and do downward transitions fully from the seat, on the buckle - I can’t really explain to you how different of a horse that was from how he started out. And we went from working on keeping him calm to focusing on true impulsion. Again, I brought the horse to the trainer, so trainer had nothing to do with selection of this horse. If you want to ask why I did a free lease on a horse who took off bucking one of the first times I jumped him, I’m not sure…but it worked out ok, I think - and would have been fine if we had addressed some of his health issues when I first raised them to the owner. I’d still have him and I wouldn’t have to be dealing with any of this!

[SweetMutt]

I’ve bought a horse who vetted as “mostly fine but maybe there’s something there” as well as horses who passed with flying colors. Though I’ve had soundness issues in both cases, I would really, really avoid buying another that vetted with some mysteries. At least a clean vetting gives you some peace of mind for a while, and when things do come up you’re not trying to fit them in with the weird things that came up at vetting. Basically, you really just might as well buy a sound horse, ESPECIALLY if budget is a factor. (Really, when is budget not a factor?) Multiple vets have told me this over the years, and my own experiences solidify my agreement.

I also see “sound” being somewhat subjective. A lot of people are out there riding horses I wouldn’t, so just because the previous trainer found the horse suitable for work doesn’t mean you or your vet necessarily will.

[Libby2563]

@Gatorade

Again, the horse isn’t head bobbing lame - it really is subtle - I’ve seen worse horses pass for sound at other barns. And the vet wants him worked.

I’m not sure I would prefer a subtle lameness over an overt one. It’s going to be harder to diagnose and may be chronic as opposed to an acute injury. Just my two cents.

[CindyCRNA]

OP, I think you should feel out your area and see if there is another free lease. You were not fair to the owner of your previous horse. Rather than have the horse have whatever treatment to keep going she retired them. That’s a good owner.

[joiedevie99]

@Libby2563

I’m not sure I would prefer a subtle lameness over an overt one. It’s going to be harder to diagnose and may be chronic as opposed to an acute injury. Just my two cents.

The subtle not-quite-right horses are the ones that end up racking up 5 figure vet bills on diagnostics. I know one horse that was bought with a questionable ‘maybe something’ but probably fine for lower level needs that ended up retired 6 months later with a chronic hind suspensory, another that just needed a new farrier that was actually a career ending collateral ligament, and a he just needs to learn to use his body that was retired with kissing spines.

Also, are you looking at horses that you can’t take on trial? IMHO, very few sellers will allow horses on trial because of the risks involved. If you insist on one, you’re greatly lowering the pool of possible matches.

[Gatorade]

@CindyCRNA

OP, I think you should feel out your area and see if there is another free lease. You were not fair to the owner of your previous horse. Rather than have the horse have whatever treatment to keep going she retired them. That’s a good owner.

That is absolutely NOT what happened in this situation. I don’t feel like getting into that situation, but it was not what happened at all and they did not retire him.

[Gatorade]

@joiedevie99

The subtle not-quite-right horses are the ones that end up racking up 5 figure vet bills on diagnostics. I know one horse that was bought with a questionable ‘maybe something’ but probably fine for lower level needs that ended up retired 6 months later with a chronic hind suspensory, another that just needed a new farrier that was actually a career ending collateral ligament, and a he just needs to learn to use his body that was retired with kissing spines.

Also, are you looking at horses that you can’t take on trial? IMHO, very few sellers will allow horses on trial because of the risks involved. If you insist on one, you’re greatly lowering the pool of possible matches.

Yes, I’ve looked at horses that wouldn’t have trial - I just didn’t like them.

Riding lesson went fine - it was actually sort of fun to have a horse that I needed to really push toward a fence, unlike my lease guy. Not sure I want to go back to just doing lessons though, so I am still mulling over that decision.

[CindyCRNA]

@Gatorade

That is absolutely NOT what happened in this situation. I don’t feel like getting into that situation, but it was not what happened at all and they did not retire him.

I’m sorry, your first post said the owner put him out to pasture. That’s what that means.

[KBC]

@CindyCRNA

I’m sorry, your first post said the owner put him out to pasture. That’s what that means.

That’s what I got as well, he’s out at pasture happily.

[Gatorade]

Yes, you are right - bad phrasing - he is out in a great big green pasture, but is not retired. Long story that I was trying to gloss over. Was really just trying to post about the virtues of taking lessons vs. the virtues of horse ownership, but the post sort of went a different direction than I had hoped.

[RainWeasley]

To answer your original question, I would always go with lessons over owning. I used to think otherwise, but I am now dealing with having to go back to fill in holes I developed from NOT having lessons while owning my own horse, AND with a subtle lameness on said owned horse. Luckily, her issue has turned out to just be weakness and she is back to normal now after a careful rehab program and correct work, but it was still a ton of money (that is a struggle to dig back out of) and time thrown at her to get no clear answers on what was wrong, and I am always hyper aware that there is a possibility we missed something and though she seems great now, something could rear its ugly head (at which point she will probably just be retired). Don’t get me wrong, this little pony is my heart horse and I wouldn’t give her up again (long story) for the world, but after she has to be retired, I will go back to lessons only and save up for however long it takes to get the horse I want, if I ever get another one.

Basically, in my opinion…if your desire is to have a companion and partner that you don’t actually care if you get to ride or not, you can be a little more lax. It sounds like you want to ride and improve, though. So personally, after my experiences, if I were in your shoes I would 1) stop paying for a stall I don’t have a horse for, 2) go ahead and give this horse the two weeks if you really want to but if his problems aren’t something obvious and easily solved by then like an abcess (arthritis I would normally say is okay with an older experienced horse but not if the horse is green, regardless of age, except in certain situations), then pass on him, you don’t want to end up in my situation which also involved a very very subtle lameness; and 3) set aside your budget, keep looking, but in the mean time take lessons at the best place you can find and make the lessons your priority.

Don’t let yourself get sucked into “well I really just want a horse and if its just mostly sound it will probably be fine after a bit and I’ll deal with it”. You will regret it. I went through it this time because I was taking back my heart horse I had sold a couple years ago and would have been fine if she needed to just be retired, but if it wasn’t Twi I wouldn’t have done it.

Now if you have the money to keep this horse even if he has to retire soon, and still go take lessons somewhere else, thats an option. But for most people its not, so it comes down to your priorities, personal goals, and what you can afford.

[Kirikou]

I’ll second everyone who has cautioned you against the lame pony - particularly if it is a subtle “not quite right” thing (in a sense an acute injury that you have an actual prognosis on might be easier to plan for than the “he seems ok now but how will he fare with your Novice/3ft jumpers goals”).

I understand the wanting to care for a horse though. While you’re looking for the perfect horse to buy (or to lease) - and perhaps while you wait for the market to settle down a little - have you thought of fostering a horse for a Rescue organization?
I don’t know which part of the country you’re in but in mine, there is a couple reputable organizations that place horses with either trainers or knowledgeable amateurs so they are regularly ridden (and easier to adopt out). That rescue pony doesn’t need to have 3ft potential, you may just do flatwork/poles/hack him out but it would give you something to care for while you keep looking.

[Gatorade]

Thank you RainWeasley - honestly, sometimes I wonder why we ever want to own horses because it is totally stressful - I mean, the way I stressed about my lease horse was akin to the way I stress about my child…and getting up at 4 am so he got his meds at the right times and I could be back home for kid/work. The trial guy is an 8 yr OTTB, but raced until he was 6, so that’s a lot of stress on a body. I have a huge fear of what happens if I get him and he is unsound for what I need - what would I do then? It’s not like I know someone who would just take him as a pasture pet or a light riding horse and I know i would be terrified he would wind up at a bad home otherwise.

Kirkou - thank you. The foster idea is an interesting idea!

My lesson yesterday was fine - it was fun to ride a different horse and the horse was so different from the more forward horses I’ve been riding that I was pleased that I actually had no problem at all getting him moving. Now, I wouldn’t want to buy this kind of horse, but it was also nice to get so many compliments from the instructor on how well I was riding the horse (haha, probably because it was my first lesson :-)). Nice thing about this place is that my daughter rode an awesome horse for her and she will definitely keep taking lessons at this place - the pony she had been riding at my stable is older and they don’t want him jumping so much any more because he wasn’t moving so well after a few times at around 2 ft. BUT, the whole thing with the pony also stresses me - all horses wind up old at some point. Just taking lessons certainly alleviates a lot of that stress and cost.

[coloredhorse]

Horse shopping is one of those things that seems like it should be fun, but in reality is a giant pain. It sounds like you are taking lessons currently. I would keep doing that. It’s good for you anyway. But since you seem to have an interest in owning a horse, keep shopping. Just prepare to be very, very patient. Be clear in your mind what your must-haves and dealbreakers are, and prioritize your nice-to-haves. There is probably a nice horse out there that would suit you perfectly, but s/he’ll take a bit of time and effort to find.

You honestly sound like you are in a good position; you have several barns that you could take lessons at and a barn where you and your child are happy. If you ultimately pass on the trial horse you have now, I think I’d advise against continuing to pay for a stall to be held. If/when you do find a horse, you can look at various boarding options then if there isn’t anything open at your preferred barn.

[atl_hunter]

@Gatorade

On the board costs, I will say that every time it came time to pay board, I had a horse in my stall so I never asked about reduced board. If Trial #2 leaves, I will ask.

If you’ve had a horse in the stall and are returning your trial horse, then you should provide 30 days notice and stop paying board. That is crazy to keep paying. If you happen to find a horse in the interim, your stall is still paid up for the remaining days. If not, then you have nothing to pay. You don’t “have” to pay to hold a stall unless this barn tends to fill up and is in extremely high demand.

When my horse died, I gave 30 days notice once I realized I wasn’t going to find an interim solutions (so I ended up paying for 45 total days since it took me 2 weeks to even deal with what happened). I ended up going to a different barn and taking lessons. I vetted several horses along the way and had my share of heartbreaks as well. Yes, they stink. Yes, tears were shed.

One thing that was clear for me, though, was that I definitely wanted a horse but was willing to wait for the right one to come along. What concerns me is that you seem pretty on the fence about this, which makes me wonder if the timing is right for you. Perhaps the best approach is to focus on lessons, save the board/upkeep and put it away so you can spend a little more on the horse when the time is right. There is no harm in taking lessons in the interim. In fact, it could be to your benefit as so many people outgrow their horse as they are moving back up the heights.

Also, buying the horse is the cheapest part. Horses are EXPENSIVE. Are you prepared to pay insurance? If not, what if your horse needs emergency case? If you’re looking at horses presenting with soundness issues, are you prepared to pay for long-term maintenance? You want to jump 3’ - even if the horse is sound, are you willing to provide this horse with any ongoing maintenance to keep it that way? Have you budgeted for that? If you get a younger 3" confirmed horse, it will be expensive. If you get something green, it will struggle with your indecision. If you get something older and BTDT, it will probably need some ongoing support which should be factored into your purchase.

As for needing that bond with a horse, in my current situation, my horse is 4+ hours away, so I lesson at a barn close to home. The mare I ride is lovely. Sure, I have a height limit at 2’6 or so, but that is plenty to work on the basics. I pay extra for hack rides here and there so I can stay fit and I love and spoil her like she’s my own. She’s my consistent ride so we have a bond that is not unlike the one I have with my personal horse. I don’t believe that you can’t bond with lesson horses - I’ve done it over and over and over again! To my detriment, as I always want to buy them! :winkgrin:

When you are ready to own a horse, the answer will be more clear, I think! Why not enjoy them now and learn along the way with lessons?