[QUOTE=jennycash;8155893]
I saw him late afternoon, called next morning with questions then was ignored for 5 days after that.[/QUOTE]
I am one of the people that thinks there is more to this story. Not sure what it is, but sure there is more.
Horse people are pretty natorious for being hard to get in touch with. The lack of a timely response does not send up red flags to me, until you add all kinds of other things to it.
[QUOTE=trubandloki;8155900]
I am one of the people that thinks there is more to this story. [/QUOTE]
There is always more to the story.
It is just too fishy all around. Even if the horse was perfect, at this point I wouldn’t want it because I would always question everything and have bad feelings about the transaction.
Get your money back.
No, I understand. But no, I wouldn’t get in that scenario. I’m jaded enough to pin people to the wall when I have them in my sights - having seen the horse, if I wanted to buy him, I would do what I had to in order to secure him. I would have the expectations documented before giving the money, it wouldn’t have been cash, and I would have asked about the vet and history right there at the farm. I would have gone to the viewing with a document in my hand which could have been signed to agree to the purchase, if I had to go home and arrange transportation.
And last, I wouldn’t have gone to a horse viewing unless I could write the whole check right then, because I beleive in paying for a horse if you want it. Just too many possibilities of things to go wrong. I would purchase the horse and arrange for it to be boarded for the number of days it would take for me to arrange transportaion.
But the exact same scenario? If I found myself in it? Yes, because I would trust my gut which told me to take the horse on sight in the first place. Horse didn’t change, and I already factored in the possiblitiy it could be lame or have prolems and I want it anyway. Which is how you have to beleive if you aren’t doing a PPE. So, yes probably to avoid losing the money and if I really wanted, like Isaid I did, I would still take it.
If the seller’s skittishness about the horse’s history scared me off, I was believing in the seller’s representation of the horse from the begining, which would be foolish adn I don’t think I would do that.
I don’t know, that’s all I can say.
I can understand you not taking the horse now. I just don’t understand what was arranged and what you expected and what they expected.
[QUOTE=Ambitious Kate;8155819]
No, she did not schedule a PPE, and did’t want one, according to the original post. Gave them a deposit, came home to arrange transportaion and pay the balance. There was no mention of contingencies in the receipt they signed. I presume she didn’t want one. Agent probably did too. She even said here, shey’s trying to pay the balance off on the horse and go get it.
when she asked the agent about prev vets and history, he probably thought she was BSin him and now wanted to PPE, ask for history, put alot of other factors in there which would make her possibly say no. Far as the agent was concerned, she had said yes.
Agent probably said, money talks, BS walks, and figured she was trying to get him to hold a horse for her with the deposit without commiting to the horse, yet. When she mentioned the history and vet history, probably looked like a red flag.
So no, she hadn’t originally negotiated any kind of PPE. She bought the horse. Something she did or said later made the Agent a) think she couldn’t afford the horse an b)think she was going to hem and haw about vet bills, history now.
I don’t know if she asked him for a payment plan or what, but he was turned off and said if she couldn’t afford it…[/QUOTE]
At no point in time did I ever bring up payment plan, I got the price lowered $xxxx lower because of cash in hand. Trying to see it from there point of view, but I’m really not when it comes to there “reason” for the deal not going through.
I’m thinking there is/was something negative/ missing in the vet records so they chose to go MIA and hope OP would just forego the deposit. The accusation that OP doesn’t have adequate funds is a smoke screen.
Dealer here in CT VERY strongly discourages buyers, especially if they seem easily intimidated, from doing PPEs and even having a trainer out to look at horse. They want buyer to spend 5 minutes and sell whatever they put in front of you, and not question the price or history of horse, never mind ask for blood work for T&A screen.
When OP said she was working with a dealer, not just an ‘agent’, then I’m thinking she’s interacting with the same type of individual. More to the story or not, small claims seems to be in the future.
This is the way I understood things went down:
OP looked at horse last weekend and gave a cash down payment/deposit with plans to pick up horse this past weekend. The next day asked question re: previous vet history and got nothing. Made several attempts to contact agent including calls that went unanswered. Then sees add for horse. The very next communication was the agent saying someone was coming to see horse.
Unless OP left out something big, there is nothing to make agent think she was backing out and since she had until weekend to pick up horse, contract had not been breached. Agent does not get to keep money because he THINKS OP isn’t going to complete the contract. If OP didn’t show up with money in hand and a trailer this past weekend, then she/he would have been in breach and forfeited the down payment/deposit. Agent did not give him/her that chance because OP was unable to reach agent to arrange paying the balance and picking up the horse and had already placed another add for the horse BEFORE OP had a chance to pick up the horse.
If you got the price lowered, that was probably the kicker – they figured they could get more if they re-listed the horse. You hadn’t paid the entire amount, so they felt free to keep it and try again. Also, the negotiation part might be why the agent thought that you couldn’t afford it…
As Ambitious Kate said, if you want a horse, pay for it in full (especially if you negotiated a discount for cash). They still treated you badly and I hope you can get your downpayment back. I think the agent is not an ethical seller, at all.
But why would the agent care if she saw sketchy things in the vet records? The purchase deal was not contingent on anything so even if the records said the horse has 6 months to live, she would probably still need to buy or forfeit the money she already paid.
According to the OP, there were no contingencies on the deal. That means that although the agent could not sell the horse to anyone else unless she defaulted, I don’t see where the agent would be prohibited from showing the horse to others in an attempt to get back-up offers should this deal fall through.
Whether or not there’s more to the story, I don’t get why an (ethical) seller or agent would take partial payment for a horse without that partial payment actually buying something, such as a certain amount of time for the buyer to come up with the full purchase amount.
To take partial payment, and then turn around and re-list the horse within a couple of days without the buyer saying the words “I am no longer interested in the horse,” strikes me as a pretty clear breach of contract. (Not a lawyer so my opinion is worth zippo).
But given that that is what they did, then they should refund the money.
Even if this is essentially a small claims amount, I’m in the camp that thinks a certified letter from a lawyer demanding the return of the money might do the trick.
I may be in the minority, but I think considering how this all went down, the OP should be happy she didn’t pay in full and leave the horse behind while arranging transportation. Nothing the seller has done tells me he would’ve had any more respect for payment in full. The quick agreement certainly sounds like a sales agreement to me, not a non-refundable payment for viewing the horse. She easily could be out lots more money at the point.
[QUOTE=jennycash;8155928]
At no point in time did I ever bring up payment plan, I got the price lowered $xxxx lower because of cash in hand. Trying to see it from there point of view, but I’m really not when it comes to there “reason” for the deal not going through.[/QUOTE]
But you didn’t have all of the cash in hand. You had a cash deposit, and then called to discuss history, not shipping/full payment details.
The way I read it is this:
-You try the horse. You like him. You put down a deposit.
-You call the next day, and for the first time, ask about vet records.
-You don’t hear back. You see a new ad.
-You finally hear from agent, he tells you ‘you can’t afford the horse’. He probably thinks that because 1)you asked for a discount 2)you brought up wanting X,Y,Z after you paid a deposit 3)you never called to arrange final payment/shipping of the horse. You then tell him you don’t want the horse anymore.
I’ve never asked about a horse’s vet records. I’ve asked the seller/agent about it’s history, but I always do a PPE, and once I decide I like a horse, enough to buy, I tell seller/agent I’d like to do a PPE. From there we discuss deposit/timeline. I could see why the agent thought you were backing out, since you brought this up afterwards.
Out of curiosity, what price range are we dealing with here? You said a large cash deposit, is that over $1000? Or did you mean a large percentage of the purchase price?
[QUOTE=roamingnome;8156080]
But you didn’t have all of the cash in hand. You had a cash deposit, and then called to discuss history, not shipping/full payment details.
The way I read it is this:
-You try the horse. You like him. You put down a deposit.
-You call the next day, and for the first time, ask about vet records.
-You don’t hear back. You see a new ad.
-You finally hear from agent, he tells you ‘you can’t afford the horse’. He probably thinks that because 1)you asked for a discount 2)you brought up wanting X,Y,Z after you paid a deposit 3)you never called to arrange final payment/shipping of the horse. You then tell him you don’t want the horse anymore.
I’ve never asked about a horse’s vet records. I’ve asked the seller/agent about it’s history, but I always do a PPE, and once I decide I like a horse, enough to buy, I tell seller/agent I’d like to do a PPE. From there we discuss deposit/timeline. I could see why the agent thought you were backing out, since you brought this up afterwards.
Out of curiosity, what price range are we dealing with here? You said a large cash deposit, is that over $1000? Or did you mean a large percentage of the purchase price?[/QUOTE]
And thank goodness I didn’t give them full payment amount!!!
Never said it was the first time I asked about vet records. I asked if could get access to them yes, that was the first time asking for full copies. The horse is sound and a performance horse, having shots, injection, dental records didn’t seem like a huge deal. I received a “last year” answer when asking for dates. So I think anyone in the horse industry would want actual dates.
I don’t see how I can schedule shipping if no party will respond. My end of shipping arrangements were done, can’t move forward if I can’t get a hold of seller.
The deposit is over $1000.
trying to edit this, didn’t see OPs anwer, makes more sense now
[QUOTE=dacasodivine;8155949]
This is the way I understood things went down:
OP looked at horse last weekend and gave a cash down payment/deposit with plans to pick up horse this past weekend. The next day asked question re: previous vet history and got nothing. Made several attempts to contact agent including calls that went unanswered. Then sees add for horse. The very next communication was the agent saying someone was coming to see horse.
Unless OP left out something big, there is nothing to make agent think she was backing out and since she had until weekend to pick up horse, contract had not been breached. Agent does not get to keep money because he THINKS OP isn’t going to complete the contract. If OP didn’t show up with money in hand and a trailer this past weekend, then she/he would have been in breach and forfeited the down payment/deposit. Agent did not give him/her that chance because OP was unable to reach agent to arrange paying the balance and picking up the horse and had already placed another add for the horse BEFORE OP had a chance to pick up the horse.[/QUOTE]
Absolutely right!
Over $1K deposit sounds like a civil suit to me! Hope you can get it back.
[QUOTE=Ambitious Kate;8156163]
trying to edit this, didn’t see OPs anwer, makes more sense now[/QUOTE]
Sorry! I don’t know how to make a post with multiple members quotes. Probably making it more difficult to find certain replies.
I see since you negotiated the price down the agent is not regretting the price and blaming you for “not affording” the horse! Probably seller reamed him out for the lowered price. Yeah, not kosher. the whole thing is prettttty shady. Hope you can take him to court get money back
[QUOTE=jennycash;8156162]
And thank goodness I didn’t give them full payment amount!!!
Never said it was the first time I asked about vet records. I asked if could get access to them yes, that was the first time asking for full copies. The horse is sound and a performance horse, having shots, injection, dental records didn’t seem like a huge deal. I received a “last year” answer when asking for dates. So I think anyone in the horse industry would want actual dates.
I don’t see how I can schedule shipping if no party will respond. My end of shipping arrangements were done, can’t move forward if I can’t get a hold of seller.
The deposit is over $1000.[/QUOTE]
You’re dealing with an agent not an owner or trainer of the horse, I’d be surprised if they did know those dates off the top of their head- even for my two I’d need to look it up!
I’ve never asked for full copies of vet records, nor have I been asked for them. Never heard of it actually. Most people want a PPE- if something comes up, sure the records would be helpful, but you didn’t want a PPE. You said he was sound, and you wanted him ‘no matter what’, so why did you need them?
I think what the agent did was shady, but at the same time, you left a deposit and then started asking for a bunch of things that weren’t ‘part of the deal’- I guess that is the lesson learned. If you needed the exact dates, (why, I don’t know, I guess I could see wanting to know if it had gotten spring shots this year or not, but needing the exact date of his last fall shots seems odd)
You never called the agent regarding pickup/payment, only vet records. I can see why he though you were backing out/having buyers remorse. You changed the ‘contingencies’ on your end, so you were ‘backing out’. He could have communicated better, but this isn’t 100% on the agent.
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