Thank you SilverSpringFarm…
I think that the big problem is that registries do not inspect. I love spots of all kinds (must be my half Native American heritage, lol), but I have very few that I breed or sell because many lack quality. That is mainly due to indiscrimitive breeding. I remember a man about 10 years ago that bred appaloosas. His mares were all POOR quality, just terrible and his stallion wasn’t much better. When I pointed out the MANY conformational flaws he laughed at me and said that it didn’t matter as long as he got “color” because then it would sell. I was so angry with him. His “rejects” those lacking color ended up going to a local auction that did a great business with those buying for meat.
There are, in my opinion, still some very high quality appaloosa and paints out there. There are “good” breeders that like color but don’t sacrifice quality to get it. If two “nice” individuals of Paint and Appaloosa breeding are bred together than I say go for it when breeding for yourself or a niche market. But if you are breeding to “just” get color then I am disgusted by that and have no respect for any breeder who willingly ignores conformation flaws and breeds anyway in hopes of a “wild” or unusually marked baby.
 that I am showing in DSHB and FEH classes this season. While the breeding was not intentional (horses were put in incorrect turnouts when I was out of town at a show) we have been really pleased with our little guy, who has been doing very well at the local show level thus far, winning a Reserve Grand in-hand his first time out.
[IMG]http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1309/9818764/17774068/362768300.jpg)
[IMG]http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1309/9818764/17774068/362768303.jpg)
[IMG]http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1309/9818764/17774068/318349650.jpg)
[IMG]http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1309/9818764/17774068/318349648.jpg)
Thanks Silver Spring, your second example was my oops baby!
[QUOTE=ljshorses;4069658]
There are “good” breeders that like color but don’t sacrifice quality to get it. If two “nice” individuals of Paint and Appaloosa breeding are bred together than I say go for it when breeding for yourself or a niche market. But if you are breeding to “just” get color then I am disgusted by that and have no respect for any breeder who willingly ignores conformation flaws and breeds anyway in hopes of a “wild” or unusually marked baby.[/QUOTE]
I agree with this 200%!
[QUOTE=FuelsterFarm;4069676]
Thanks Silver Spring, your second example was my oops baby![/QUOTE]
He turned out very nicely, even if he was an oops! I have no problem with someone putting a colt like that on the ground (whether intended or unintended.)
Someone out there is going to absolutely fall in love with his wild coloring. I think he is going to have a very useful life ahead of him.
I’m with sonesta
I’ve seen a number of pintaloosa or whatever you call the combo come out of New Holland…bought for a pittance and treated that way.
So for those already on the ground, I hope you give them a nice, forever home, but it is hard to hear of anyone intentionally breeding more.
What about the even greater # of (registered!!) TBs and QHs and Warmbloods and drafts?
So for those already on the ground, I hope you give them a nice, forever home, but it is hard to hear of anyone intentionally breeding more.
Are you saying that about breeding in general? Or just about breeding a pinto to an appy?
Maybe I’m not understanding some of you, but it sounds to me like a few of you are condoning this breeding based purely on the fact that one is pinto and one is an appy. Nowhere on this thread, unless it’s been deleted, and even then I don’t see the followup discussion have we seen pictures of the OP’s mare, nor the stallion she chose. For all we know, they are fanastically conformed horses who compliment each other very well. Except for those darned spots that just might produce an ugly “color” :rolleyes:
So many of you say “A good horse is never a bad color, you can’t ride color”, and now you’re saying don’t breed because of the color? 
[QUOTE=JB;4069802]
Nowhere on this thread, unless it’s been deleted, and even then I don’t see the followup discussion have we seen pictures of the OP’s mare, nor the stallion she chose. For all we know, they are fanastically conformed horses who compliment each other very well. Except for those darned spots that just might produce an ugly “color” :rolleyes: [/QUOTE]
DING DING DING!!! We have a winner!
I was hoping my oops would miraculously turn out solid, truth be told. The point of my post was simply that not all weird crosses are hideous beasts - mine is an ok guy - but I would not intentionally do this sort of breeding and have made darn sure that my barn help are very, very clear on who is who and where they go so we don’t ever have a repeat of this nature!
[QUOTE=FuelsterFarm;4070207]
I was hoping my oops would miraculously turn out solid, truth be told. The point of my post was simply that not all weird crosses are hideous beasts - mine is an ok guy - but I would not intentionally do this sort of breeding and have made darn sure that my barn help are very, very clear on who is who and where they go so we don’t ever have a repeat of this nature![/QUOTE]
I definitely hear what you’re saying. I would NEVER breed one of my Paint mares to an Appaloosa stallion. NEVER! I love both Appaloosas and Paints (I would kill to find a nice snowcap mare) but the combo of the two colors can end up way too weird/loud for my taste.
Your colt is a perfect example though of how a quality stallion + a quality mare of similar body type almost always = a quality foal. A quality horse, even without papers, is much less likely to end up at auction then a low grade horse with papers.
Color and pedigree/registry preferences are nothing more then a matter of personal opinion.
[QUOTE=SilverSpringFarm;4026717]
The OP stated that she wants the foal. There are 15 Pintaloosas for sale on Dreamhorse right now. The highest asking price for one is $15K for a children’s hunter. There are several others in the $2-3K range. Sure, there are some $400 foals on there too… There are also 992 QHs under $500.
The OP wants a wild colored foal. She is not the first horse owner to breed with a specific color/pattern in mind.[/QUOTE]
As with all fads and fashions they’re short-lived. What about all the duds that aren’t quality? One way ticket to Mexico?
‘Wild colored’ doesn’t often apply to this particular cross from the vast majority of what I’ve seen. More often than not it simply looks like a skewbald or a piebald and other times a bit of a mess.
What about the bays that arent quality? Or the chestnuts?
Color has nothing to do with quality.
There have been no pictures posted of either the stallion or the mare. The only thing you are judging on is color.
Apparently a good horse is never a bad color only applied when its a color that the majority likes.
[QUOTE=Tango14;4079285]
As with all fads and fashions they’re short-lived. What about all the duds that aren’t quality? One way ticket to Mexico?
‘Wild colored’ doesn’t often apply to this particular cross from the vast majority of what I’ve seen. More often than not it simply looks like a skewbald or a piebald and other times a bit of a mess.[/QUOTE]
If you cross a dud appaloosa with a dud pinto, yes, you’ll probably end up with a dud… That’s no different then if you were to cross a dud warmblood with a dud warmblood. (Or dud TB to dud TB, dud arab to dud arab… Etc. etc.)
But what if you cross a nice, athletic, well conformed and proven appaloosa with a nice, athletic well conformed and proven pinto? The foal’s resulting color may not be everyone’s cup of tea, but hey, CHESTNUTS aren’t everyone’s cup of tea either.
Do you know for a fact that the OP’s mare and stallion choice are both duds? Because I sure don’t. If you have pictures and info on her choice of breeding stock please share so we can ALL be that informed.
The OP wants the ONE foal for herself. Please tell me what that has to do with fads and fashions? It’s not like she’s looking to “cash in” by starting a newfangled breeding program with 50 head of horses.
Some day I would like to breed my mare to a dun stallion in hope of getting a silver grulla tobiano foal. I think that color combination would be spectacular and I have wanted a foal of that color for many years. Am I giving into a fad as well?
So I love the baby with the cute eyemask and also the one at the end with the flea-bitten-ish appy coat.
(Its my dream to breed Morgan x Connemara crosses, so don’t be discourage by your funky unknown mixed breed. It could be the next big thing) 
[QUOTE=Pirateer;4080300]
(Its my dream to breed Morgan x Connemara crosses, so don’t be discourage by your funky unknown mixed breed. It could be the next big thing) :)[/QUOTE]
Ah, geez…
[QUOTE=RiddleMeThis;4079327]
What about the bays that arent quality? Or the chestnuts?
Color has nothing to do with quality.
There have been no pictures posted of either the stallion or the mare. The only thing you are judging on is color.
Apparently a good horse is never a bad color only applied when its a color that the majority likes.[/QUOTE]
Missing the point, but usually, when one has to explain it’s a waste of oxygen:) I’m not ‘judging’ the OP - I’m stating a fact. Color IS actually a component of the horse.
[QUOTE=SilverSpringFarm;4079872]
If you cross a dud appaloosa with a dud pinto, yes, you’ll probably end up with a dud… That’s no different then if you were to cross a dud warmblood with a dud warmblood. (Or dud TB to dud TB, dud arab to dud arab… Etc. etc.)
But what if you cross a nice, athletic, well conformed and proven appaloosa with a nice, athletic well conformed and proven pinto? The foal’s resulting color may not be everyone’s cup of tea, but hey, CHESTNUTS aren’t everyone’s cup of tea either.
Do you know for a fact that the OP’s mare and stallion choice are both duds? Because I sure don’t. If you have pictures and info on her choice of breeding stock please share so we can ALL be that informed.
The OP wants the ONE foal for herself. Please tell me what that has to do with fads and fashions? It’s not like she’s looking to “cash in” by starting a newfangled breeding program with 50 head of horses.
Some day I would like to breed my mare to a dun stallion in hope of getting a silver grulla tobiano foal. I think that color combination would be spectacular and I have wanted a foal of that color for many years. Am I giving into a fad as well?[/QUOTE]
Refer to my previous post. The subject is actually about COLOR so let’s stick to the subject:)
If the OP is breeding for top conformation as one or two people are trying to intimate, then : Are you seriously trying to tell me that this is the one and only stallion choice in the entire universe that they have? There is absolutely NO OTHER STALLION who could [conformationally] vaguely meet her expectations? The answer is obvious: it’s a color issue. How many of us can seriously swear that we’ll be able to keep a foal till the day it dies in perhaps 25yrs time? This is the only reason I am concerned about ‘creating’ more unwanted little lives. It’s a reality we all have to accept.
I stick to my previous point, and that is, many have tried and the majority have failed - to produce good looking pintaloosas. Why on earth go down that road when you can see the trainwrecks along the way? But then, I feel the same way about ‘creating’ new breeds from horse breeds which had no business (or reason) being crossed in the first place:)
“No good horse is a bad color.”
and that is, many have tried and the majority have failed - to produce good looking pintaloosas.
And many have succeeded as well. ]
It is not a color you would choose to have a horse, and thus should not be crossed.
Why on earth go down that road when you can see the trainwrecks along the way?
The thing is this can go for ANY color. Black, bay chestnut. Any and all can look like crap. Any color can be bred horribly and end up horribly.
Are you seriously trying to tell me that this is the one and only stallion choice in the entire universe that they have? There is absolutely NO OTHER STALLION who could [conformationally] vaguely meet her expectations?
What does it matter? Would you ask another person to choose Stallion B over Stallion A because Stallion B is bay and Stallion A is chestnut? Color has no bearing on quality.
[QUOTE=Sonesta;4080522]
Ah, geez…[/QUOTE]
Well, Sonesta, I find you as an irresponsible breeder- I don’t like chestnuts. Why would anyone in their right mind breed a chestnut to a chestnut knowing very well they’ll end up with another one?!
My goodness. Would I ever breed an appy to a paint? No. But I wouldn’t breed either of the two to their own breed either- not my cup of tea. I’ve seen some pintaloosas that are beautiful, and I’ve seen even more that I find down right hideous… because of their COLOR but not their conformation or build. Looking through Appy magazines, if you took the cover off, I would never know that I wasn’t looking at a QH magazine. Her mare is solid- theoreticaly she is a QH (now, foundation breeders don’t take offence. I know there are those of you out there that breed for the TRUE appy) and I guarentee she has QH in her pedigree. I also know if someone on here posted about breeding their QH to an APHA there wouldn’t be this kind of uproar… so, what exactly is the difference here? By the sounds of it, one wouldnt even be able to tell this horse isn’t full Paint.
And, I hate to say it, but guess what? If these Pintaloosas are sitting next to a solid horse of simular quality at an auction… it will highly likely be the loudly marked horse- the one that stands out- that gets bought, not the horse that looks the same as 40 others there.
