Really recommend not sharing Dressage Hub videos. I didn’t watch this so I’m not sure when this was filmed (she used to film warmups at Global before she got banned for harassing competitors and being an all-around loon), but her recent footage is all stolen where she replaces the FEI.tv or ClipMyHorse watermarks with her own. She’s a drama queen interested in her own self-aggrandizement (and personal vendetta against a few riders) more than unfair judging, horse welfare, or correct riding.
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And it started with Totilas.
The first time I heard of him was when my BO showed me a video and enthused about how beautifully he moved. I took one look and said he looked like a circus horse who had been taught tricks. I stand by my opinion.
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Carl Hester gave a master class in SoCal some time ago and a group of us nobodies went to watch. There were some truly lovely horses and Hester was upbeat, kind, funny and positive. Horses and riders seemed to have fun and lots of takeaways.
One horse (developing 6 y.o., if memory serves) came in trotting around the rails like a Hackney. Now there’s nothing wrong with Hackneys, but the movement was so much up and down with the knees, and not reaching under with the hind legs. Hester had his arms crossed, head tilted and finally said, “I…I…really don’t know what to say. This is certainly…extravagant.” Clearly he was trying to be diplomatic. Hester spent the 45 minutes trying to get the rider to help the horse relax through the back and and lengthen the stride. Again, he was incredibly diplomatic.
We still wonder why the organizers of the master class thought that particular horse should be included. Surely it couldn’t have been to curry favor with the wealthy owner and local celeb trainer. /sarcasm
Cubic zirconia is flashy, too.
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My Toto Jr is out of Furst Heinrich/Velton Third (damline of the stallion Benicio–his dam is the maternal half sister to Benicio, out of the same famous mare, Valencia). He is 5-1/2.
I also have a Vitalis x Damon Hill. He does snap the knees and has a natural round frame–has to be trained to stretch out and down so he is really through the back. But he is only 3.
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Unfortunately the google algorythms all go to her web site. Blame google. I tried to find these outside of DH. The point is that a rider spent 4 minutes trying to get a GP horse in the arena
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This linke is to a video of Totilas as a 5 year old at Verden. I can see all of the gaits in him that he later showed at grand prix.
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And he proves that you don’t have to train like Parra to be successful…he is MORE successful than Parra without the gadgets and beatings.
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What makes you think there weren’t gadgets and beatings?
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Because he has a good reputation and I know a couple of people who train with him…what makes you think he does use gadgets and beatings?
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I had posted earlier on one of these threads about my experience with Dutch riding, and then deleted it since it didn’t seem relevant, but since posters keep bringing up Edward Gal and Totilas -
While I cannot speak on Edward’s program directly, I spent about six week grooming at a barn that employed a long time rider for Edward Gal. I watched them + two other very experienced Dutch GP riders every day.
I did not see gadgets on horses. What I observed about their riding is that forward came above all else, and as the horses matured, they slowly closed the “door”, so to speak, to collect and recycle the energy, and create the very expressive type of movement in the front legs and shoulder.
They would warm up horses for about 10-15 minutes at the walk, school for 20 minutes tops, and then cool out in a hot walker. There was a lot of emphasis on the gaits, and they did not drill hard on the movements (in part because they could ride so damn well, the riders didn’t need to). Maybe a bit more time schooling something particularly tricky, like the canter zig-zag.
The rider who worked for Edward had an extremely strong core. My experience (from talking to the rider that I groomed for and also from getting to ride with them once) was that the horses could feel rigid at first, but apparently if you kept them in front of the leg, things would click into place and they would soften. (I have to take them at their word for this, I didn’t get the opportunity to feel that myself).
It’s not how I would ride/want to ride, and there’s other things that can be critiqued about that approach, but I also think it’s important to be accurate about the criticism.
Again I am not able to speak directly for Edward Gal (or even beyond what I saw working there for six weeks), but I do think it is possible to manufacture those types of gaits without gadgets. Whether one should and what other impacts it has on the horse’s well-being is another story.
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I absolutely agree. Some people might call the movement you can create with that riding extravagant or brilliant, but it creates a lot of tension and (personal opinion) is more mentally and physically stressful than other approaches. Whether that’s a tradeoff that riders should be making, it’s being rewarded and encouraged by judges.
I just think it is worth pointing out that it can be manufactured without gadgets - maybe that’s losing the forest for the trees, but I am a dressage rider. Being detail-oriented is in my nature.
EDIT: and, of course, it CAN also be created with gadgets and bred for, in ways that a softer and more harmonious approach cannot be.
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Thank you. There are many paths to Rome, so to speak. I personally like my very uphill boy to spend a lot of time stretching out and down to build up his undercarriage in order to carry in the uphill frame. Just because a horse is bred to go like this doesn’t mean they are born strong!!! I hate the abusive training because (1) abusive (2) confusing and terror making (3) doesn’t build the strength to do the work.
I still have not heard how we are going to fix this. I am sensing that the rugs are being lifted to sweep the dirt under. If the governing organizations are NOT going to change the system to remove the emphasis on gaits, this will not improve.
Personally, I have two very fancy movers but I want the emphasis removed from gaits NOT because I have horses that can’t do it, but because I effing DO NOT want to train the way the judges reward.
There is so much money wrapped up in the dealing of horses. How do we get this separated from the judging?
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My feeling is that this disaster was set in motion when dressage was turned into a spectator sport.
The PSI young horse classes, the promotion of big money young horse sales and stallion services, the exploitation of mass appeal and growth of the sport. The wild amounts of money to be made.
There are many people prepared to service the market and provide the product by any means necessary. The horses can’t all be like Totilas etc, but that’s what people want.
Nevermind the unrideable tension created by adrenalizing the horse to the extent needed to produce this unnatural movement, the unethical methods employed to turn a naturally marvelous horse into a freak and the physiological cost to the horse of producing it.
All the better for the people selling them, break it, buy another,they have many more to sell .
The riders have to manage it somehow, and they’re beholden to the owners who can find another rider and or buy another horse if they can’t or won’t do it.
It’s the lack of will to understand that exceptional horse are just that, exceptional, and the will to mass produce an ersatz alternative for an ego driven spectator/owner who doesn’t care to see.
I don’t think there is a viable solution with the world as it is now sadly.
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I’ve always understood that L graduates are not actually qualified judges. They may graduate “with distinction” which puts them on the path to become a judge, but a person who has graduated from the L program is not qualified to judge anything but a schooling show.
Am I mistaken?
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That was sort of my point. The rider on a 6/7 mover has to execute a near-as-dammit to perfect test, whereas the rider on an 8 mover can flub a few movements and score the same or better. Lets face it – people who can afford the 8 movers buy them. It sure makes those 70% scores come easier.
I’m saying that this underlies some of the systemic problems we’re seeing. A sort of horsey arms race of bigger and bigger gaits with gazillions of dollars being invested into the breeding and selling of those horses. Perhaps to the detriment of the horses themselves, since horses aren’t really meant to move like that. You’re right of course in that all dressage training should improve the gaits of any horse as they become more powerful and better balanced, but human greed and ambition sadly knows no bounds. You’ll get people like Parra (and I bet there are more 
) thinking they can get a leg up on the competition by taking methods from the TWH industry (those paragons of equine welfare) to make the gaits even more ‘spectacular.’ Because that’s what wins, and it keeps on winning.
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You are correct. But whats that got to do with anything? If the L-judges training teaches emphasis on the gaits it teaches judge candidates to emphasize gaits as the first part to consider when awarding the score.
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Someone asked for clarification on something and this is your response?
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Yup. We are discussing what is taught to judges about judging. I asked for clarification why being a “judge candidate” and not yet a judge have any bearing if we are discussing the guidance being given to those judge candidates.
I apologize. I didn’t mean to put you on the defensive.
I thought that I understood, from speaking with a few judges, that the guidance given to people in the L program becomes much further refined as they continue their education and progress out of the L program “with distinction”, upwards on the path to become a qualified judge.
I was checking to see if my memory served me correctly, it sometimes lets me down these days. 
IE I wanted to know if I was remembering correctly what I was told.
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I see some of Parra’s threats towards people are coming out now. This has been an open secret in the horse world for some time. I wonder if the suspicious horse deaths at his farm will also come to light.
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