Passing Judgement too Quickly

[KittyinAus]

Watched the video and read the comments. It was a video of a clinic. I didn’t see any abuse. The horse did get it’s knickers (panties?) in a twist but there was no abuse.

“The poor horse stopped for one reason: He is being abused.”
“The horse is shattered and over worked!! Get your fat ass off him he needs a holiday and a new owner!”
“Terrible, she uses the spurs and the bit so strong, poor horse. Spurs and bit shoulld be banned. All these riders dont`t understand how to ride. What she is doing hurt the horse.”

Had been thinking that it might help a few others to video my horse’s rehabilitation and put it online but changed my mind because you can become a target for this sort of thing.

[Scribbler]

Well, I don’t think dressage hub gets much of a readership of actual riders any more. When the DH thread came up a few months back I took a look at it and thought it was attracting a lot of animal rights type people. And yes from all accounts the person who runs DH is a troll and also brags openly about getting revenge on BNTs. Person is a former ammie rider of middling skill who quit riding after a brain injury. The website is ugly in tone.

[Kolsch]

I’ve begun to think of it as a mild variation of Munchausen by proxy. If fills a need for them to create “absuse”, and an even bigger high to “rescue”.

Nothing posted is safe. There’s nothing I can do about what other people say, and there’s nothing that can be done to stop it. I do think it’s more harmful that we realize to the sport, and makes it all the more important to not bicker within.

[Kolsch]

@Kolsch

I’ve begun to think of it as a mild variation of Munchausen by proxy. If fills a need for them to create “absuse”, and an even bigger high to “rescue”.

Nothing posted is safe. There’s nothing I can do about what other people share and post. I do think it’s more harmful that we realize to the sport, and makes it all the more important to not bicker within.

[Crockpot]

Sigh. so now many more clicks for the whacky witch who has a vendetta against certain riders -

tears them down on line

and gleefully counts clicks,

unfortunately . I clicked on it before realizing what it was.

next time maybe put D H. in the subject line. Thanks/

This person SW/DH is attacking HB in revenge because HB defended someone that the sicko SW/DH has been harassing and trying to destroy for years. :dead:

[Scribbler]

The whole DH wackywitch thing is not representative of the normal parameters of actual riders judging and commenting on other people.

That said I do question the wisdom of posting raw videos of clinics or training sessions. Or rather keep in mind that any video or photo you post can get out of your control and context, and also become the one piece of data viewers have on you. Not to mention get maliciously high jacked by frenemies or trolls.

This applies to everyone from teen girls posting videos of themselves getting bucked off while riding bateback and backwards through to BNT in clinics with green horses.

You might just think it’s going on your own FB page but it can and will leak out if it is “good” (IE bad) enough to be interesting.

So for everything you post on social media think twice and think about self protection.

I participate in a clinic series that bans unauthorized filming and photos, and bans posting unauthorized material. You get your own copy of your ride video to take home. I really appreciate this and see no reason my ride video should ever be in the public domain!

[SendenHorse]

Susan Warowhich is known to take videos with out riders’ permissions, she hides in the corner. Since many of the riders are GP trainers and very prominant that takes balls.

She also steals off youtube, I think she has taken Dressage Today’s videos and erased the watermark, but that is not firsthand knowledge.

This is a huge reason I don’t post ANYTHING of mine publically, ever, or talk about details of my work.

[Scribbler]

It’s a tough call for pro trainers because they need to have some images for an online presence. If you Google a trainer and see no photos on their website that would be a red flag that they have nothing to show. So a pro needs to have some material up. But they should be careful what they post and it should all work as PR.

If access to a clinic is limited to paid auditors then you can ban photography. If it’s at a horse expo or similar, not really.

But of course the clinicians may be happy to have the publicity from the unauthorized photos. If some local medium name trainer gets bucked off in a George Morris clinic at a public event, the spectator videos will embarass the MNT but not GM himself! So he wouldn’t care about photos.

Similar to posting TMI about injuries and illness on FB. Not smart to whine about tendon rehab or training snafus or whatever on FB then post the horse for sale the next year in the same community.

[NSC_Los_Angeles]

Ah yes, Dressage Hub. That woman is an unhinged bully, I won’t miss her and when she posted that video asking her tiny subscriber base of 40K people to support her on Patreon I had to laugh. The irony is that there actually could have been a nice little side business there, all she needed to do was conduct herself professionally, let all of the riders and trainers know she would only make approved videos public, and design the project to be a free marketing platform for trainers. There was no reason to attempt to make it something destructive. The idiot would actually be making a little money instead of scrounging for handouts.

[BigMama1]

@KittyinAus

Watched the video and read the comments. It was a video of a clinic. I didn’t see any abuse. The horse did get it’s knickers (panties?) in a twist but there was no abuse.

“The poor horse stopped for one reason: He is being abused.”
“The horse is shattered and over worked!! Get your fat ass off him he needs a holiday and a new owner!”
“Terrible, she uses the spurs and the bit so strong, poor horse. Spurs and bit shoulld be banned. All these riders dont`t understand how to ride. What she is doing hurt the horse.”

Had been thinking that it might help a few others to video my horse’s rehabilitation and put it online but changed my mind because you can become a target for this sort of thing.

Bear in mind this particular website owner will DELETE any comments that don’t fit her agenda. In this case (and many others) her agenda was to make this particular rider look bad. So all the know-nothings screaming “abuse” merrily post away while the many knowledgeable and educated people who likely post to say this is a skilled rider and trainer dealing tactfully and appropriately with a difficult moment - those comments all go “poof” and more often than not, the people who wrote them get blocked she they can’t leave additional comments.

So while yes, in general people have way too much time and not enough knowledge to judge other riders, I wouldn’t pay attention to any comments on this particular site. If it’s happening to you with people in your barn just say “thanks for your input but I prefer to follow the advice of my trainer.”

[SendenHorse]

I would not be shocked if she creates accounts and posts comments as others, really. I agree with BigMamma- she deletes opposing views and anyone taking a positive spin or exposing the lies that are Dressage Hub.

It’s a shame, I like the premise of making educational videos free and widely available- we do need more of those— but you can not proceed in this harmful way or under false pretenses.

[KittyinAus]

@BigMama1

So while yes, in general people have way too much time and not enough knowledge to judge other riders, I wouldn’t pay attention to any comments on this particular site. If it’s happening to you with people in your barn just say “thanks for your input but I prefer to follow the advice of my trainer.”

The attacking of horse people for normal things is quite widespread on YouTube. Apparently just using spurs and bits turns you into an instant horse abuser. Even the very act of riding your horse will set you up for this. It frustrates me when many of the targets are teenage girls posting videos of their horses and being put in a position where they need to defend themselves for normal, non-abusive behaviour.

[infiniti]

@Foxtrot's

When a horse shows resistance one should first think of something wrong, instead of being ‘naughty’ or having a moment of loss of balance. It could be one of those teeny tiny warning oopsies that can then become something more serious.
It has become more apparent to me that dressage is very hard on horses as they go up the ranks. We can do straight lines and other performance movements, but as the weight goes further and further back on the haunches the more likely there can be an injury…my vet said to me that a twice yearly exam with an experienced vet with knowledge of lameness is a good way to prevent the injuries, nipped in the bud.

So I guess these are the kinds of comments that worry me. My horse would go perfectly fine with her owner (I’m a leaser) and it has been noted by our coach that the horse shows disrespect with me in particular. Occasionally she will try it with the owner but she nips it in the butt quickly. The horse is seen by a vet regularly and has been seen by a saddle fitter and chiropractor.

[Scribbler]

@infiniti

So I guess these are the kinds of comments that worry me. My horse would go perfectly fine with her owner (I’m a leaser) and it has been noted by our coach that the horse shows disrespect with me in particular. Occasionally she will try it with the owner but she nips it in the butt quickly. The horse is seen by a vet regularly and has been seen by a saddle fitter and chiropractor.

Well if you have 2 riders of different skill on a horse obviously you need to compare and contrast how the horse goes for each rider. Generally if the horse is going fine for the better rider or the trainer, the blips with the less experienced rider can be attributed to rider error.

Indeed that’s a first question COTH often asks about behavior problems: does it happen when the trainer rides? Even things like not picking up one lead, balking, bucking.

If horse goes fine for owner asking the same things as you do, then you just need to concentrate on your skills and let the owner evaluate overall soundness.

[SendenHorse]

@KittyinAus

The attacking of horse people for normal things is quite widespread on YouTube. Apparently just using spurs and bits turns you into an instant horse abuser. Even the very act of riding your horse will set you up for this. It frustrates me when many of the targets are teenage girls posting videos of their horses and being put in a position where they need to defend themselves for normal, non-abusive behaviour.

but these people didn’t post their own videos, so that make it worse! Dressage Hub takes then and posts them on her site (FB/youtube) with out permission. This makes me very angry, but it’s hard to find a solution.

[infiniti]

@Scribbler

Well if you have 2 riders of different skill on a horse obviously you need to compare and contrast how the horse goes for each rider. Generally if the horse is going fine for the better rider or the trainer, the blips with the less experienced rider can be attributed to rider error.

Indeed that’s a first question COTH often asks about behavior problems: does it happen when the trainer rides? Even things like not picking up one lead, balking, bucking.

If horse goes fine for owner asking the same things as you do, then you just need to concentrate on your skills and let the owner evaluate overall soundness.

Not denying that at all, I need to ride more assertively. Period. It’s what works for this dominant mare. Since I’ve made every stride part of our “work” - ie. from the moment we walk around the ring she walks forward, to going back to transitions as soon as she falls behind my leg - we have made drastic improvements. But the second I give an aid and she doesn’t respond I can’t just tap her, she ignores it, so it’s a smack or a strong leg. Would I do that with any other horse? No I would test the light aids first. Every horse is different and until you’ve ridden them it’s very hard to judge. That is what I am trying to say.

[Scribbler]

@infiniti

Not denying that at all, I need to ride more assertively. Period. It’s what works for this dominant mare. Since I’ve made every stride part of our “work” - ie. from the moment we walk around the ring she walks forward, to going back to transitions as soon as she falls behind my leg - we have made drastic improvements. But the second I give an aid and she doesn’t respond I can’t just tap her, she ignores it, so it’s a smack or a strong leg. Would I do that with any other horse? No I would test the light aids first. Every horse is different and until you’ve ridden them it’s very hard to judge. That is what I am trying to say.

OK that makes sense. I thought you were worried the horse had undiagnosed lameness.

Do not internalize the malicious griping on DH when riding your own horse in a lesson. Do what your instructor asks promptly and to the best of your ability. You need to pass muster with your instructor not some imaginary audience on line.

If however you feel that your instructor is requiring you to ride in a way that is consistently cruel or harsh, it’s up to you to change programs. A well timed smack is not cruel.

On the other hand it is wise not to share schooling videos with rough moments online because you never know who will steal them and for what reason.

[Escada]

Mean-spiritness is why I joined a GMO chapter farther away from me than the more local one when I was in Virginia.