Paul valliere

[Thomas_1]

[QUOTE=anthem35;2662332]
Please lets not assume that everyone just sits on their computer all day.

And for the record, I am an adult who chooses to train with Paul…I am neither stupid or inconscienable. I am, however, very able to tell the difference between right and wrong and make my own choices based on my observations. He teaches me to ride, and he does it well. end of story. I did not go to him for a course in business ethics.
We are all free to make our own decisions based on our knowledge of the situation, and our outlook in life.
Lets please remember to be respectful of everyones decision, be it your own, or not.[/QUOTE] Get on!!!

I judge folks as I see them. And if I know someone is paying to reward someone who has committed a criminal act which involved cruelty to a horse and they’re paying for services relating to a horse, then I judge that they’ve got REALLY bad judgement and I don’t respect their opinion or decision at all.

Indeed I’d be thinking they’re condoning and even supporting the act.

Same way I think that those who pay to view Internet Sites with Paedophile photos on are scum bags and perpetuating such criminal acts.

Lie down with pigs and you get up dirty!

[Aimee_Thanatogenus]

[QUOTE=anthem35;2662332]

And for the record, I am an adult who chooses to train with Paul…I am neither stupid or inconscienable. I am, however, very able to tell the difference between right and wrong and make my own choices based on my observations. He teaches me to ride, and he does it well. end of story. I did not go to him for a course in business ethics.
We are all free to make our own decisions based on our knowledge of the situation, and our outlook in life.[/QUOTE]

UNconscionable, you characterless slag.

Main Entry: un·con·scio·na·ble
Pronunciation: -'kän(t)-sh(&-)n&-b&l
Function: adjective
1 : not guided or controlled by conscience : UNSCRUPULOUS <an unconscionable villain>
2 a : EXCESSIVE, UNREASONABLE <found an unconscionable number of defects in the car> b : shockingly unfair or unjust <unconscionable sales practices>

• un·con·scio·na·bil·i·ty /"&n-"kän(t)-sh(&-)n&-'bi-l&-tE/ noun
• un·con·scio·na·ble·ness /"&n-'kän(t)-sh(&-)n&-b&l-n&s/ noun
• un·con·scio·na·bly /-blE/ adverb

God, what a pack of soulless pillocks to use this murdering sod as an instructor.

“me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me” should be tattooed to their sloping foreheads.

[LexInVA]

[QUOTE=oleary157;2662611]
this is how I look at it:

Drug Addicts vs. Horse Killers

Drug Addicts. Lets say heroin for example. You do it once and get hooked. End up an addict. You have an intervention and head to rehab. Later on in your life you have a relapse and may not be as into the drug as you were prior, but still have an interest in the drug and do it every so often.

Horse Killers.

VERY similar to drug addicts. You get paid to do an “easy” job or pay someone to do the deed. It’s done once and you realize that you can do it. The money is great in your eyes and you’re heartless and don’t care about killing a horse who has tried from DAY ONE to please you. You get caught and build up a reputation which is solid even though you screwed up BIGTIME before. Who’s to say you can’t relapse later on in life?

And that Ladies and Gents is why I don’t train with Paul.[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately, the H/J world is full of both and most of them don’t ever get any kind of penalty or retribution for their misdeeds because they know so and so or they happen to sit on the USEF board for something.

[Janet]

@slainte!;2662499

Something I always find very interesting about this is that over the internet, everyone hates him. But if his banner is set up a horse show, a bunch of people swing by the aisle and ask “when’s he getting reinstated? how is he? it’s about time he comes back to the show”.

I’m not making this up. I just feel that if you’re all so against his business, I would expect more out-rage AT the horse shows themselves. The scrims and coolers are layed over the horses that say “AWF” on them… Why don’t more people announce their unhappiness at the sight of it?

Because when I don’t like someone - I’m not friendly towards them or their followers…

I can only speak for myself. If I saw an Acres Wild banner at a horse show, I would NOT go over there and be unpleasant. I would simply stay as far away as I could. So you are only hearing the commennt of the people who CHOOSE to associate with him.

[Silk]

[QUOTE=oleary157;2662611]

And that Ladies and Gents is why I don’t train with Paul.[/QUOTE]

But if you train with who I think you train with, your trainer buys horses from him. I can give you the names of the horses and the client they were purchased for. PT me if you are at all interested.

[Silk]

Is Jerry Farmer any relation to Kelly Farmer (of LArry Glefke fame)?? Apples…trees…etc

[anthem35]

[QUOTE=Jaegermonster;2662380]
You must be so proud. I don’t think I would want a trainer that I had to use on the Q T at the horse shows, and had to hide. I see you jumped to his defense very early in this thread. NOT.[/QUOTE]

I “jumped to his defense very early”? I’m not sure what you maena by that…is that intended to be sarcastic? Its Labor Day weekend, and I’d much rather enjoy it at the beach than sitting on my laptop.

I didnt jump to his defense, btw, I jumped to my own. I merely pointed out that ‘all of his students are NOT without moral compass’…

I will say this ocne, and leave it at that…I have been down this road with all the anti-PVers too many times, only to to have my respectful replies met with anger and persoanl attacks.

I am able to ride with Paul becasue I believe in FORGIVENESS. Yes, i think it was a hideous crime. I believe he should have paid for it. I also believe in peoples ability feel sorrow and regret, and giving them a chance to make amends. I have made more than one mistake in my life, and I have been lucky enough that those I had hurt were kind enough to recognize my shame, and allowed me to apologize.

Simple as that. Do I forget, no…but I do forgive…

[anthem35]

[QUOTE=Aimee Thanatogenus;2662687]
UNconscionable, you characterless slag.

Main Entry: un·con·scio·na·ble
Pronunciation: -'kän(t)-sh(&-)n&-b&l
Function: adjective
1 : not guided or controlled by conscience : UNSCRUPULOUS <an unconscionable villain>
2 a : EXCESSIVE, UNREASONABLE <found an unconscionable number of defects in the car> b : shockingly unfair or unjust <unconscionable sales practices>

• un·con·scio·na·bil·i·ty /"&n-"kän(t)-sh(&-)n&-'bi-l&-tE/ noun
• un·con·scio·na·ble·ness /"&n-'kän(t)-sh(&-)n&-b&l-n&s/ noun
• un·con·scio·na·bly /-blE/ adverb

hahahaha!

I seriously hope you didnt waste too much time on a typo…

really…

[findeight]

@Jane;2662614

It was not a “USEF show”. It was the Equues Medal, a fundraiser for the Wellington Equestrian Alliance created by Mason Phelps. It was judged under the USEF medal rules, but it was not a USEF santioned “show”. PV voluntarily withdrew from judging after all the posts on here, the COTH H/J forum. If I recall correctly, approximately a quarter to a third of the riders participated in the event borrowed their (eq) mounts from PV and listed him as “trainer”.

Possibly the fact that 1/4 to 1/3 of those that chose to compete list him as trainer indicates they were the biggest contingent because others chose not to participate for various reasons. I’m sure some went home and some rested their horses…but I bet alot stayed away to vote with their feet.

[bumknees]

mmm using PV’s logic… short on financial resources + avalibility of high dollar object insurance pay out= killing object of high dollar payout… = no real punishment and can still live on outside and continue to make money and live in freedom and maintain controll over other peoples property etc… Using that logic I should be able to attach alligator clips to dh’s anal muscle and nostral while he is sleeping and plug in and collect his sgli and other life insurance which should bring me just under 1/2 mil… I can claim he just died while he slept…Now of course I would have to convince the Dod the Army, and other govt types that yes indeed he died not by alligator clips attached to parts of his body but quietly in his sleep…

mmm wanna take bets on how many people would trust me after that to do anything including feeding their gold fish??? But I could say “But you trust PV no questions about his morals or ethics I did the same thing so why not trust me?”

[Fairview_Horse_Cente]

People that do not care about animals don’t suddenly begin to when they are caught. They may pretend to for appearances, but they will always see them as a object. They do feel sorry. D*MN sorry they got caught - the same as Vick. PV is a great used car salesman - “selling” himself by saying the things his groupies want to hear.

[Lessonlady]

Even murderers of people who go to jail get out sometimes. How long does he need to pay his debt? How can he prove he’s a changed man? He is and was a talented horseman who made a huge error in judgement and regrets it big time. What should he do for a living now? Flip burgers?

[anthem35]

[QUOTE=horseless no more;2662768]
mmm using PV’s logic… short on financial resources + avalibility of high dollar object insurance pay out= killing object of high dollar payout… = no real punishment and can still live on outside and continue to make money and live in freedom and maintain controll over other peoples property etc… Using that logic I should be able to attach alligator clips to dh’s anal muscle and nostral while he is sleeping and plug in and collect his sgli and other life insurance which should bring me just under 1/2 mil… I can claim he just died while he slept…Now of course I would have to convince the Dod the Army, and other govt types that yes indeed he died not by alligator clips attached to parts of his body but quietly in his sleep…

mmm wanna take bets on how many people would trust me after that to do anything including feeding their gold fish??? But I could say “But you trust PV no questions about his morals or ethics I did the same thing so why not trust me?”[/QUOTE]

I have just one question for you…

Have YOU ever asked Paul to explain the story as to why this happened? Is your assumptions that the reason was financial your own idea based on what you’ve read, or heard, thirdhand?

I do very much respect anyone for standing up and supporting what they believe in…provided, its a well informed opinion, and it is their own.

Its hard to consider a party’s platform when its based on third party information, and supported by a band of disciples who resort to name calling and personal attacks…

Please, lets keep this discussion based on firsthand knowledge of the accused, as well as limiting personal attacks to those we are acquainted with personally…

[Acertainsmile]

Wow to the above thread…this isnt hearsay, or gossip… he admitted to killing the horse for insurance money…I’m not thinking he is going to try to brush it away as accidental…Or “I didnt mean to do it”…

As far as keeping this going based on “firsthand” knowledge… thats a little over the top at this point… there are many articles, and somewhere out there in google land, there is a court transcript I’m sure…

I’ve met the man personally, didnt like him… there, I now qualify to keep posting!

[Mayaty02]

[QUOTE=Lessonlady;2662832]
Even murderers of people who go to jail get out sometimes. How long does he need to pay his debt? How can he prove he’s a changed man? He is and was a talented horseman who made a huge error in judgement and regrets it big time. What should he do for a living now? Flip burgers?[/QUOTE]

again, the type of murderers that get out are not usually ones that commit premediated crimes. Oh it could be manslaughter etc. Not typically the ones who actually devise a plan, pay someone to carry it out, and then try to get away with it by comitting insurance fraud. Not only does that show premeditation but lack of remose as well. They don’t normally get out, and when they do, I highly doubt you’ll see them becoming a school teacher.

As a trainer, it is his responsibility to teach proper horsemanship to kids (as well as adult of course). His attitude that to solve your problems, commit a crime = not something I want my kids to learn. Sure he’s sorry now, of course he is. But as I said before, he wasn’t a boy scout before he got caught anyway. If he hadn’t been caught, he would have been happy as a clam with no regrets. Now if he had done the act, and had such regret that he knew he did something wrong and couldn’t live with himself, he should have come forward and turned himself in. That, I would have more respect for.

Again, I’m sure we won’t see Michael Vick owning a dog breeding business, nor do we see child molesters allowed anywhere near kids, so why should someone who committed a crime against horses be allowed to thrive in the business? Let’s face it, how many times do we see an extreme equine neglect case and we say that person should never be allowed to own horses again…isn’t this exactly the same thing?

[Acertainsmile]

[QUOTE=Lessonlady;2662832]
Even murderers of people who go to jail get out sometimes. How long does he need to pay his debt? How can he prove he’s a changed man? He is and was a talented horseman who made a huge error in judgement and regrets it big time. What should he do for a living now? Flip burgers?[/QUOTE]

I would love to see PV in a Mcdonalds uniform… and I would dine at Wendy’s…

[War_Admiral]

[QUOTE=Lessonlady;2662832]
What should he do for a living now? Flip burgers?[/QUOTE]

Anything that doesn’t involve horses. Talented doctors, vets, and lawyers who commit malpractice are no longer permitted to practice. Talented teachers who are convicted of child molestation are no longer permitted to teach.

The same rules should apply to anyone calling him/herself an equine “professional”. The very microsecond that each of those horses died, each of the trainers involved voluntarily waived the right to call him/herself a “professional”. Professionals have a duty of care toward the horse which MUST be maintained. Each of these persons failed to do that.

[Silk]

[QUOTE=Acertainsmile;2662855]

I’ve met the man personally, didnt like him… there, I now qualify to keep posting![/QUOTE]

Womanizing homophobe is how I remembered him in the '70’s. Very free with his whip and spur, as seen in warm up rings. Not the best rider I saw (to put it mildly)

[anthem35]

[QUOTE=Acertainsmile;2662855]
Wow to the above thread…this isnt hearsay, or gossip… he admitted to killing the horse for insurance money…I’m not thinking he is going to try to brush it away as accidental…Or “I didnt mean to do it”…

As far as keeping this going based on “firsthand” knowledge… thats a little over the top at this point… there are many articles, and somewhere out there in google land, there is a court transcript I’m sure…

I’ve met the man personally, didnt like him… there, I now qualify to keep posting![/QUOTE]

OK, in your meeting with Paul, did you pose the question, “why”?

Facts are facts, but these threads tend to enlarge as a result of hearsay and sensationalist prattle.

Yes, there is a court transcript…and the facts that surround it…its just the forum’s speculation on what went on in PAULS mind that is hard to digest.

[Acertainsmile]

Actually Anthem, I met him before all of his “troubles”…so no, I did not ask him why…something about him gave me the creeps though… a womans intuition maybe…