Pawing - how to stop this behavior

[Equine_Senior]

I have a draft X that was started by a pro at 4 years. He was a bad pawer and spent many hours tied to a gentle tree with another youngster that liked to paw. Trainer would walk away saying “First one to dig to China, wins”. This largely erased the behavior EXCEPT at feeding time when he would try to hurry me along by pawing. It took about three days to stop this absolutely. On the day of reckoning, I was approaching the barn as usual and talking to the horses when Mr Rocket Scientist pawed. I turned around and went back to the house. Five minutes later the same scenario. After about 6 or 7 repetitions of this behavior, the gelding and mare had a conference (mare is very, very smart). Next time I could see him waiting for me to get closer before raising his dainty #5 and bangilng the metal fence. That was it for that day, next time he didn’t paw at all and both horses got fed.

There were relapses in the following days but one experience of not getting fed immediately was usually enough to get him standing like a statue. Now he is a few years older and I can’t remember when he last pawed for any reason.

This horse was really telling me to hurry up and feed him, i.e. he was trying to train me. Hate to admit it but for a short time he did. Horses are very persistent and often wear out our patience and we give up. This only reinforces the horses idea that he is training us.

At 3 years, this horse can easily be trained to not paw, big friendly tree with nice dirt so he doesn’t injure himself and leave him there until he STOPS. When you approach if he paws, leave and don’t quit the exercise untilhe stands when you approach. Do this when you have hours to spare. at this point the horse has nothing to do but to continue to try what has worked in the past and that is to train you to give him attention by pawing. Good Luck.

[Auventera_Two]

The “leave them tired and ignore them” trick doesn’t work on all horses. Once at an overnight riding trip, I was camped next to a grey on a hi-tie. That sucker pawed all night, and all day the next day. He was not ridden, so they must have taken himn along just for experience. He excavated a ditch probably 2 feet deep all around as far as he could reach. I NEVER ever saw that horse stand still for one second and quit pawing. It was constant. I could hear it all night and when I left the next evening, that horse was STILL pawing.

To the contrary, I think tying him up and forgetting him made the problem worse. He was bored, frustrated, and angry. Horses develop bad habits out of boredom and frustration. They don’t just magically quit cribbing if you put them in a stall for 3 weeks and let them get over it. The problem gets worse. Weavers don’t stop weaving and fence walkers don’t stop walking if ignored. It only gets worse. So why someone thinks ignoring a pawer is going to work doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. Yes maybe if the horse is only pawing because he equates pawing with getting turned loose. But if the horse is frustrated, bored, angry, or nervous, this is not likely to help.

One of my boarders used to paw at feeding time. He would start pawing furiously when he saw me go into the feed room. When I would emerge 10 minutes later with buckets all made up, all his shavings would be in one corner of his stall, and sometimes he’d have the mat flipped back and he’d be standing on it pinched in half.

His owner told me this was a problem, so I expected it. The first few days I just ignored it and then realized I needed to do something because ignoring was NOT working.

I would stand there with his feed where he could see me and when he’d paw I jumped toward him and gave a forceful “NO!” That would startle him of course and he’d stand there staring at me. Once he’d stood there for 3 seconds quietly, I would go in and give him the pan and praise him and pet him. Each day I would increase the time he had to stand. Once up to around 30 seconds, if he started to lift the foot, I’d give him another NO and the time would start over. At this point he does not paw at all. He knows that pawing = NO FOOD. Standing still and patient = FOOD and when he paws, he starts all over. Horses are smart. If they can learn how to do flying lead changes and rollbacks, they can be taught to quit pawing. I don’t make him wait for the feed anymore because the pawing is a non-issue.

I’m all about rewarding good behavior and avoiding discipline unless absolutely necessary but in this case there was no way to convey to the horse I wanted him to stand quiet and still to get the food. I first had to interrupt the bad behavior. Similar to tossing a can full of coins near a dog when they’re chewing on your shoe. You have to snap them out of it and make them focus on something else to interrupt the behavior, and then reward them for doing what you want.

My filly used to paw while eating her dinner and just about the time I was about to start working with her to break the habit, she spontaneously quit on her own. The only thing that changed was I switched her from a flat rubber pan to a plastic bucket. It’s possible she just didn’t like that strong petroleum smell of the rubber pan. So I guess if you can figure out why the horse is doing it, and make changes, that’s even better.

[HPFarmette]

my pawer

Well, I have an aged rescued TB (was in a starvation case) that raises hell at feeding time. I am sick of it. She’s amping up the other horses who never were crazed at feeding time this much. She’s in a big stall of her own but zooms over towards the next one, ears pinned, and the next one then zooms over to the next one and kicks the wall. This morning I yelled at them (not my usual style at all) and she stopped a little. She’s not aggressive towards me, but god help the horse that gets between her and food…Guess I should try the “you don’t get the grain till you settle” approach…

[nasalberry]

The only time my black gelding would paw would be during baths or hosings because he LOVES to splash the puddles!

He would stop if I was close enough to smack him one; ignored NO or QUIIIITTT!!!

Then I had the lightbulb moment (and why did it take so many years to blink on?!?):

Hosing him one day and he began pawing the puddle. I said nothing at all - but I did squirt him in the head with the hose (which he hates!). Three times was all I had to do this before he realized I could reach his head from any distance away with that hose.

No more water pawing!

[kinnip]

I must be lucky. I have a little TB who paws in the ties. I tried ignoring it, but that just seemed to make him worse. I started slapping him on the shoulder of the offending leg, and making my loud “Eh” noise. It took two grooming sessions for him to get to the point where he lifts the leg, looks at me, I make an “Eh”, and he stands pretty. He hardly even does that any more. If I have to walk away, sometimes he wants to start, but I can just point and “eh” from across the barn and he stops.

[ideayoda]

Hold a shank, STOP the horse with that each and every time. It is extinguished with a very short time.

[coloredcowhorse]

Just goes to prove that a variety of training methods will work…reading your horse and figuring out his buttons and what he’s gaining by doing the undesired behavior and replacing that with something he wants even more…in general all of these methods are doing this, just using different details.

[lcm817]

mine paws at the gate the second she sees me coming for food ~ hence has dug a hole lower than the post by the gate !! GRRRRR

[nasalberry]

[QUOTE=ideayoda;5505179]
Hold a shank, STOP the horse with that each and every time. It is extinguished with a very short time.[/QUOTE]

… And if I had 3 hands (or a helper) this method might have also worked while bathing him!

Alas, I have only 2 hands; nor am I nimble enough to juggle a hose, a sponge, a scrubber AND a shank all at once.
:winkgrin:

I have NO idea how this could possibly work for those whose horses are stalled and impatiently pawing while waiting for brekkie.

[Bells]

[QUOTE=ideayoda;5505179]
Hold a shank, STOP the horse with that each and every time. It is extinguished with a very short time.[/QUOTE]

Or how it would work for a 1800 lb horse on 24 hour turn out who likes to paw at a feeder all night hoping someone wants (who doesn’t) to feed him even more food.

[Foxtrot_s]

I don’t know all the reasons for pawing, some just do it I suppose.

My own horse will paw, or chew the wooden hitching rail, when she is in a new place, by herself or otherwise a bit anxious. Therefore, growling, smacking, jerking, squirting etc. is not the answer. With her, it is better to see her through it by attempting to give confidence and helping her relax.

With the young horse, he is not so confirmed in the behaviour. I’d work quickly to discourage it, each and every time he starts, even if something else has to give. Easier to prevent something than allow it to develop into a full scale annoyance. At no time should you do anything to escalate his anxiety…but build on his confidence in you. My 2 cents worth.

[Tstarke22]

So here’s another spin-off question:

Many of you suggest a Tree of Patience OR water squirting/shanking/smacking etc.

I just got a 2 year old TB who is only just starting to be handled (by me). He doesn’t like the crossties because he doesn’t have as much freedom of his head as he’d like (even though the crossties aren’t that snug). So after a few minutes he starts pawing. Extremely HIGH pawing. Every once in a while he’ll even try to break off of the crossties. So squirting/shanking/smacking will most likely make him try to make a run for it.

When he stands quietly, I’ll reward him by taking him off of them to graze a little, but I’m not sure how to stop the pawing from becoming a bigger issue down the line without scaring him off of the crossties!! Suggestions?

P.S. I think he’d try to break off of a Tree of Patience and end up hurting himself/snapping his halter.

[UrbanHennery]

Ignore him. Really. When my pawer (mentioned above) starts to paw I either put on his horseshoe bracelets (if I’ve got them handy) or I ignore him. Took a while, but now if I’m ignoring him he stops after just a minute or so since I’m no longer rewarding the behavior. He’s a nervous pawer, so shanking, swatting, otherwise getting after him just makes it worse.

[RedHorses]

My own pawer was cured by (I do NOT recommend this) hanging his foot over a high tensile wire fence strand. He made a mess of his coronet/pastern but the pawing pretty much stopped after that injury. He would occasionally paw during a massage if the therapist was working too much on a “don’t like” area but a verbal order stopped him immediately.

I did successfully get two long term breakfast time pawers to stop by shocking them with a bit of noise and not feeding them on the days they pawed. I told them that if pawing was more important than breakfast they weren’t getting breakfast - it’s pawing OR breakfast. I used to chuck an empty feed bucket at their stall bars to interupt the pawing. Both horses had been pawing for long enough that they did sometimes forget themselves and paw - which slowed the process because the weekend feeders fed them anyway. But if you are consistent they will stop and give up the behaviour entirely.

[Kyzteke]

Interesting thread.

I have a 17 yr old Arab mare who paws relentlessly when I leave her. Not when she’s loose in the pasture, just when I take her somewhere, tie her and go more than 20-30 feet away. If I approach and yell “NO!!” she stops, but of course she starts again as soon as I leave.

Once, during a clinic, I put her in the trailer for lunch and she pawed the chest padding off from in front of the manger.

Luckily I rarely take her anywhere anymore, but it was a pain.

Now have a coming yearling who ONLY paws when he’s eating his grain. No other time.

I suppose I can live with that, but first time he starts it any other time, the paint gun is coming out!

[sketcher]

@Tstarke22;5549693

I just got a 2 year old TB who is only just starting to be handled (by me). He doesn’t like the crossties because he doesn’t have as much freedom of his head as he’d like (even though the crossties aren’t that snug). So after a few minutes he starts pawing. Extremely HIGH pawing. Every once in a while he’ll even try to break off of the crossties. So squirting/shanking/smacking will most likely make him try to make a run for it.

This is not a horse that is ready to be crosstied firmly. He only needs to learn once that he can snap them and then you have a problem.

If I were you I would have one side just a leadrope looped through the ring on the wall, keep tension on it with one hand while you work with him. That way there can be give and take until he learns that the crossties will stay with him no matter how antsy he gets. During this time you can correct him for pawing without fear that he will snap the ties.

[puddleplasher]

Don’t know if it’ll work in your case, but my horse was an impatient pawer in the crossties, and I ended up telling her, “You lift that hoof up and it’s MINE!” She’d start to paw, and I’d make the “bad horse!” noise and grab her leg in mid-paw and keep it in the air. After a minute or so of standing on three legs, she’d want to put it down, of course. It didn’t sink in immediately, but she did eventually learn that it was easier to just leave her feet on the ground. Every now and then a remedial lesson is needed. (If you do decide to try this, make sure you’re careful grabbing that leg – if your horse paws very hard, you might rather use some other method cuz who needs a kick, accidental or otherwise.)

'plash