Pediatric spay/neuter?

[S1969]

[QUOTE=Where’sMyWhite;8643816]
Don’t know Havanese so don’t know if the price is typical. My 2 BTs were less than that.

IMO, one can’t know if a puppy is “show” or “pet” quality as a puppy. Some puppies may be based on conformation or color/markings but a puppy’s real possibilities as a show dog won’t be until it grows up a bit. Most breeders I’ve worked with sold all pups at the same price and with some type of either spay/neuter or delayed AKC registration if they didn’t want it shown conformation or bred.[/QUOTE]

Yes, whether a puppy is “show quality” is not usually a factor in pricing unless the breeder has something very unusual or has an unexpected number of puppies (e.g. someone I know had a litter of 13 recently; only 6 were seen on ultrasound - which is not very predictive but they were really surprised at the xray). I suspect their price might be lower for some of the puppies if they find good pet homes for some. But that was not their original intent.

I also know someone that had a puppy born without a fully formed foot. They placed that puppy with a great pet home and I would not be surprised if it was a give-away; I’m sure they did not charge full price for him. But again, that is not typical.

Havanese are not terribly common so it might just be more difficult to find a good breeder. Doesn’t Tom King on COTH breed Havanese? Or is it TTs?

[Pep_n_Ann]

@Miss Anne Thrope;8643382

I need a small dog because I already have a small dog (12-pounder), and he plays with larger dogs, but they inevitably get too rough with him. I think that makes the puppy search a little tougher.

You don’t need a small dog just because you already have one. I have a 12 lb dog and a 40lb, 8mth old puppy. They get along just fine. Little dog puts puppy in his place when puppy gets too rough. I also had a 120 lb dog with little guy with no issues.

[shezabrazenmare]

They often do this because some people do not go through with the surgery if they take the puppy or kitten home before the operation. You might try to negotiate to allow said puppy to be able 6 months old before operation is performed.

Good for you to rescue the puppy. Get your vet to contact the rescue so that they will let you wait. Otherwise, go ahead with the operation and adoption.

[Sswor]

Just out of curiosity, why pressure a person to get a pet that will have a mandated, and elective, surgical procedure at an age that increases the risk of health problems over the lifetime of the pet?

This board champions health testing of breeding dogs and the sentiment is that it is absolutely crucial that a dog be guaranteed against congenital health problems, yet here is the OP being encouraged to obtain a puppy that will be neutered at 8 weeks–a procedure known, or at least strongly suspected, to be risky to the lifetime health of the dog.

Knowing that a homeless pet gets a loving, responsible, lifetime home makes us all feel very good, but who wants for themselves to take on a new dog for life that is a huge risk for being healthy over that lifetime? Just food for thought.

[Miss_Anne_Thrope]

[QUOTE=Pep ‘n’ Ann;8643932]
You don’t need a small dog just because you already have one. I have a 12 lb dog and a 40lb, 8mth old puppy. They get along just fine. Little dog puts puppy in his place when puppy gets too rough. I also had a 120 lb dog with little guy with no issues.[/QUOTE]

Understood. But MY little dog does NOT put the bigger dogs in their place. He eventually gets frightened and tucks his tail. I just don’t want to deal with that.

[Miss_Anne_Thrope]

I have definitely decided against the $650 pediatrically neutered pup. I’m listening to the inner voice questioning support of this “rescue.” I was just telling my husband it feels like when you walk into a pet store that sells puppies, and you KNOW you shouldn’t support it, but it’s just so hard to resist getting one of those puppies out of a cage. It’s a bit easier walking away from just a picture, and that’s what I’ve steeled myself to do.

I will find out tomorrow if any of those terrier pups at the humane society are still available, and if not, I think I’ll start another thread asking for help finding me a puppy!

I’ve put the word out in my agility class, but so far nothing there … big, older dogs aplenty, but I’m standing firm on what I want. My goal this time really is to get what I want, bonus if it’s a rescue, but that’s not my priority.

What I want: small, high-energy (for agility), puppy (I want to do all the training, puppy kindergarten, etc.), CUTE!

[Miss_Anne_Thrope]

[QUOTE=shezabrazenmare;8643946]
They often do this because some people do not go through with the surgery if they take the puppy or kitten home before the operation. You might try to negotiate to allow said puppy to be able 6 months old before operation is performed.

Good for you to rescue the puppy. Get your vet to contact the rescue so that they will let you wait. Otherwise, go ahead with the operation and adoption.[/QUOTE]

I already asked about that, and they were very firm … that’s their policy, no exceptions. I’m guessing their legal troubles in the recent past mean they’re less likely to bend any of their rules.

[Miss_Anne_Thrope]

[QUOTE=S1969;8643907]
Havanese are not terribly common so it might just be more difficult to find a good breeder. Doesn’t Tom King on COTH breed Havanese? Or is it TTs?[/QUOTE]

The woman I met at the dog show is from North Carolina, but she’s temporarily in NYC right now. According to her, Havanese are the trendy dog in the city now, but most people in NC never heard of them.

She may be breeding one of hers this summer, and I have no idea what she’d be asking for the pups, but there wouldn’t be any until next fall, and with our recent loss and my little guy being an only dog right now, I’m in a little more of a hurry than I was just a week ago.

Of course, one option is to rescue some little pup right now, and still keep an eye out for a Havanese … three’s not too many, right?

[Perfect10]

Why don’t you find a rescue that has a program that will allow you to foster the puppy until it is of age to be neutered? I’m sure there are rescues in NC that do that. It’s also the start of puppy season, so you will have many to choose from soon.

[S1969]

[QUOTE=Miss Anne Thrope;8644038]
I have definitely decided against the $650 pediatrically neutered pup. I’m listening to the inner voice questioning support of this “rescue.” I was just telling my husband it feels like when you walk into a pet store that sells puppies, and you KNOW you shouldn’t support it, but it’s just so hard to resist getting one of those puppies out of a cage. It’s a bit easier walking away from just a picture, and that’s what I’ve steeled myself to do.

I will find out tomorrow if any of those terrier pups at the humane society are still available, and if not, I think I’ll start another thread asking for help finding me a puppy!

I’ve put the word out in my agility class, but so far nothing there … big, older dogs aplenty, but I’m standing firm on what I want. My goal this time really is to get what I want, bonus if it’s a rescue, but that’s not my priority.

What I want: small, high-energy (for agility), puppy (I want to do all the training,
puppy kindergarten, etc.), CUTE![/QUOTE]

To be honest, I would wonder if they don’t get their puppies from puppy mills. It looks like a pet store - “Puppies! Kittens! Dogs! Cats!” - right on their sign. If they didn’t have to pay such overhead, maybe the adoption fees wouldn’t be so high.

The group that I know of only adopts locally, but they don’t have a building - they have a network of foster homes.

If you really want to do agility - I might suggest you look for a breeder that has health-tested breeding stock suitable for your goals. Many purebred dogs don’t cost $2000 - it depends greatly on the breed, location, etc.

[Miss_Anne_Thrope]

[QUOTE=Perfect10;8644086]
Why don’t you find a rescue that has a program that will allow you to foster the puppy until it is of age to be neutered? I’m sure there are rescues in NC that do that. It’s also the start of puppy season, so you will have many to choose from soon.[/QUOTE]

That’s a good idea!

I just found a Havanese forum, and it seems $2000 is a pretty typical price for a pup from a reputable breeder. Can’t do it … that’s a year’s worth of hay!

And whoever mentioned Tom King was right. I looked him up, and he and his wife do breed and show Havanese. They even have puppies right now … sooooo adorable!!

[Horsegal984]

Have you looked at Papillion rescues? Not the scruffy terrier look, but fun little dogs in a small package. I tell people they’re like Border Collies somebody shrunk in the wash. :lol: Really fun little dogs and typically quite competitive in obedience.

Might be another option to look at, unless you really want a terrier look. I’m sure we can find you something if these Humane Society pups don’t work out.

[Knubbsy]

If you want a smaller agility dog, why not look at sheltie rescues for a smaller young one? I don’t know what part of the county you’re in but most of the sheltie rescues I’ve interacted with have been reputable (there’s one hinky one in the midwest but if you continue your google searches, you’ll realize to avoid it.)

[Marshfield]

[QUOTE=S1969;8644092]

If you really want to do agility - I might suggest you look for a breeder that has health-tested breeding stock suitable for your goals. Many purebred dogs don’t cost $2000 - it depends greatly on the breed, location, etc.[/QUOTE]
^^^This. Havanese aren’t super common and may tend towards small litters, so I’m not surprised to hear $2k for a puppy.

I’d suggest deciding upon one or two breed options and then look for breeders. Here’s the part that will probably be disappointing to you. You need to be prepared to wait. Essentially, most of the people you’d want to buy a dog from are going to have a waiting list. I’m at the point where mine have homes lined up long before conception. My one definitely planned litter for 2017 has at least three committed families for it already. And I don’t have anyone to refer folks to as all the breeders I know are in a similar position.

[Sswor]

The Amish breed Jack Russell crosses as ratters that make for super agility dogs. If you have any Amish connections in your horse community, it might be worth asking around.

[GucciJumper]

[QUOTE=Knubbsy;8644114]
If you want a smaller agility dog, why not look at sheltie rescues for a smaller young one? I don’t know what part of the county you’re in but most of the sheltie rescues I’ve interacted with have been reputable (there’s one hinky one in the midwest but if you continue your google searches, you’ll realize to avoid it.)[/QUOTE]

I may be a bit biased but I think shelties are the best. They have great personalities and energy but are total love bugs.

[S1969]

[QUOTE=Sswor;8644287]
The Amish breed Jack Russell crosses as ratters that make for super agility dogs. If you have any Amish connections in your horse community, it might be worth asking around.[/QUOTE]

Not to beat a dead horse on this issue - but unless they are conducting genetic health tests before breeding, I would avoid an “Amish breeder” - or any breeder. In general, I would also avoid cross-bred dogs. Cross-bred dogs from a backyard/Amish breeder without health testing? That’s a puppy mill.

[Sswor]

[QUOTE=S1969;8644387]
Not to beat a dead horse on this issue - but unless they are conducting genetic health tests before breeding, I would avoid an “Amish breeder” - or any breeder. In general, I would also avoid cross-bred dogs. Cross-bred dogs from a backyard/Amish breeder without health testing? That’s a puppy mill.[/QUOTE]

The rescue puppy the OP was considering wasn’t going to come with any health testing either. The OP’s concern was pediatric neutering. An Amish puppy won’t come neutered and the cross is a good choice for an agility dog.

[S1969]

[QUOTE=Sswor;8644451]
The rescue puppy the OP was considering wasn’t going to come with any health testing either. The OP’s concern was pediatric neutering. An Amish puppy won’t come neutered and the cross is a good choice for an agility dog.[/QUOTE]

A cross might be good for an agility dog, if it gets the best qualities of each breed instead of the ones that the cross-breeding was intended to “improve”. It’s not predicable.

And if it has luxating patellas, congenital eye problems or hip dysplasia, it will be a terrible choice for an agility dog.

If someone is going to buy from a breeder - why wouldn’t they take advantage of the opportunity to increase the odds of getting what they want? If they don’t care - then yes, rescue is the way.

[Horsegal984]

If going with a breeder it makes the most sense to go with a reputable one and know you’re getting what you want. Instead of paying a “breeder” for something you could pick up at the local pound.