Pentosan, Legend or Adequan ???

[Dr_Doolittle]

[QUOTE=nhwr;6958030]
$60/dose given IV, no farm call thankfully.
Loading protocol 1 dose/week x 4weeks. Once a month after that.

Vet mentioned that there may be some benefit to giving a dose immediately before a demanding performance situation because it seems to increase red cell PCV.
Which leads me to another question;

Any restrictions for competition while using it?
(Yes I know I can look it up and I will if we are headed for the competition ring. Just wondering )

Laurierace, if I can keep my mare going like your handsome fellow, I’ll be happy indeed.[/QUOTE]

That seems on the pricey side: I think you can get a vial (with 6-7 “doses”) from Wedgewood for about $160–if you can get a script.

And no, no restrictions WRT competing after giving it

[stargzng386]

I am one of the students mentioned below and Pentosan has made a huge difference with my gelding. He had been out of work and when bringing him back I was struggling with building up his hind right muscles due to an old SI injury. He had previously been flexed and nothing came up so I didn’t suspect arthritis. He had been on cosequin and various other oral joint supplements too. He went from a horse that could barely canter at all back to the guy that I bought His movement is sooo much better and I can tell he is more willing and comfortable. I still have to work on his endurance but he is able to w/t/c and jump much sooner then I expected. I highly recommend it to anyone!

[QUOTE=Dr. Doolittle;6957175]
This ^^. AND (for some reason), Adequan is on back-order in many places??? I have used all 3 of these on my horses, and IMO Pento provides the best “bang for your buck”, and I have recommended it to ALL of my students (to the point where I feel like I should get a kickback! :-p) Good stuff, and though some vets are reluctant to prescribe it because it’s a compounded drug, the side effects are minimal, and it has been proven to be reliably effective. ]

[deltawave]

[QUOTE=nhwr;6958030]
$60/dose given IV, no farm call thankfully.
Loading protocol 1 dose/week x 4weeks. Once a month after that.

Vet mentioned that there may be some benefit to giving a dose immediately before a demanding performance situation because it seems to increase red cell PCV.
Which leads me to another question;

Any restrictions for competition while using it?
(Yes I know I can look it up and I will if we are headed for the competition ring. Just wondering )

Laurierace, if I can keep my mare going like your handsome fellow, I’ll be happy indeed.[/QUOTE]

PLEASE tell me the “given IV” is a typo! :eek:

It is given IM.

[NorCalDressage]

Pentosan Gold is done IV, but I think the OP is talking about regular Pentosan.

Incidently I just read an article about a racehorse dieing from the Pentosan Gold - anaphylactic reaction. I’m sure that’s the 1 in 1 million, but makes me nervous to administer the first time without the vet present.

[deltawave]

Sorry to further confuse the issue, then. I only use regular pentosan.

[vineyridge]

[QUOTE=deltawave;6958499]
Sorry to further confuse the issue, then. I only use regular pentosan. :)[/QUOTE]

I need a primer on Pentosan, please. I’ve got a mare who has just been diagnosed with stifle arthritis. Vet is pushing Adequan, but is willing to write a script for Pentosan. Prices are all over the map.

What’s the best and cheapest source for Pentosan? Does it need to be the stuff with the green label? I’ve seen it for sale with other label types and was assuming it would be a compounded version.

Please point me to a reliable seller.

[Laurierace]

I get mine directly from Wedgewood. It is compounded. It is $109 for 50ml of 250mg/ml or $160 for 100ml

[nhwr]

My vet used regular pentosan. According to the package insert he gave me, pentosan can be administered IM, IA or IV. If it produces results, I’ll get a prescription and do it myself IM.

Pentosan gold is pentosan and an adequan analog. It is also available as pentosan gold+ HA.

[deltawave]

Pentosan gold is pentosan plus injectable glucosamine. If that’s an adequan “analog” then lighter fluid is an analog of gasoline. Wouldn’t put the former in my gas tank.

I hope people are getting advice from vets who know precisely what they’re prescribing and doing with these drugs, and why.

Can’t fathom why one would want to risk giving it IV if there is a safer method.

[Calvincrowe]

We just started my 16 year old hunter on this yesterday, so I’ve been reading this thread with interest. I’ve also read through many of the various threads on Pentosan. My vet’s instructions on the prescription/bottle/bag read 6ml IM or IV every two weeks. I gave it IM, as all the IV horror stories make me run screaming–and I, too, can’t fathom the IV choice. I was billed, so I’ve no idea what Dr. is charging me yet, but I know it is far less than Adequan/Legend would be, which makes me happy. I was not happy with the results of Adequan, so I’m anxious to see if Pentosan is a better choice for my boy.

[nhwr]

Adequan is polysulfated glycosaminoglycan.
Pentosan gold contains n-acetyl glucosamine.
Analog - a chemical compound with similar properties.
Both compounds are used to treat osteoarthritis.
Both compounds have a potentiating effect on haluronic acid formation.
n-acetyl glucosamine has been shown to have a beneficial effect on some auto immune processes.

Regarding the method of delivery, I don’t usually argue with my vet about that stuff, but I’ll ask him about it

[mbamissaz]

Have you looked into Lubrisyn at all? http://lubrisyn.com/equine/

It’s great stuff.

[mvp]

It is NOT completely risk free. For one thing, there is a moderate anticoagulant effect that may not be an issue in many individuals but can certainly be VERY undesirable in others. [/QUOTE]

HOs: Is this the big known side-effect of Pentosan? Are their others? I spoke with a vet about it for my old man (vet/horse are on the other side of the country) and she didn’t want to use it because of side effects. We didn’t get so far as to talk about what those were.

By I’m bold, I want good quality of life for the horse as long (or as short) as that is, and the horse has no financial value. So what’s the hubbub with the side effects?

[deltawave]

I think people are confusing RISKS with SIDE EFFECTS. A “side effect” is an unintended reaction or effect of a drug, like getting drowsy from an antihistamine when what you wanted was to stop sneezing. Even if they’re common and predictable, they’re still side (not the primary) effects of a drug.

RISKS are things like anaphylaxis or infection from the injection of a drug, etc. You could argue that bleeding would also be a “side effect” of a drug like Pentosan, as it is unintended but in the nature of the drug to produce bleeding.

In humans, where the drug is used oral, the most common side effects are nausea and diarrhea. But that may be unique to the oral formulation.

[nhwr]

I used to work in one of the most prominent coag labs in the country back in the day. So I asked my vet about just how heparin-like this compound is.
His response was, “You probably wouldn’t want administer it right before a surgery or to use it IA in a joint that is actively bleeding. But it has been around since the 1970’s without a lot of problems (though not widely used in the US). It its strength as an anticoagulant are similar to aspirin.”

[deltawave]

A perfectly reasonable response. Much more so than the “it’s perfectly safe” or “it can’t hurt” attitudes one often sees (even on this thread) when this drug is discussed. I’ve gotten quite different responses from different vets to the same question, ranging from “we have no idea” to “I would consider it like a small dose of heparin” to “don’t worry about it” :rolleyes: to “I wouldn’t use it in a horse with any recent surgery”.

Aspirin is potent stuff.

Many people are wondering about the possibility of drugs in this class having anything to do with the occasional bleeding (EIPH among other things) equine fatalities that happen in eventing, racing, and other high-intensity horse sports. It’s still too soon to say, of course, and I continue to defend these drugs wherever speculation gets crazy.

But ALL DRUGS should be treated with respect. There are NO “perfectly safe” ones.

[mvp]

I appreciate the distinction between Risks and Side Effects. Same for respecting drugs. I’m good with taking info and caution from vets. But I’m also willing to experiment a little more broadly with this old horse of mine. Worthless or not, I don’t want to create a "he’s bleeding to death"type crisis. That would be a PITA for all involved.

I appreciate the thread. Thanks, you guys.

[CDE_Driver]

I get it from Wedgewood. Same price as an above post, $109./50mL vial.

I had my 13 year old on Adequan last year with no discernible improvement. A very obvious improvement with the Pentosan.

I have my two older guys on it now. They are 20 and 21 with LONG histories of competing as Advanced CDE horses. The ol’ buggers are spry as all get out this spring!

My vet recommended a loading dose of 1xweek for four weeks and then once every 3-4 weeks or as needed. My guys are all about 1400 lbs. and he told me to give them 10cc.

I am quite happy with the results.

[Dr_Doolittle]

And I have yet ANOTHER student whose vet will NOT prescribe it (for her older mare to make her more comfortable) nor are they willing to write a script for it. Argh!

And Adequan IS on back order, so is not an option…

Very, very frustrating. And yes, I think we–the general we of responsible horse owners–are well aware that there are “some risks” associated with any drug. The student who took her horse to Morven for a workup was prescribed a course of Bute for 2 weeks (as an anti-inflammatory–if it works, the horse and the owners can avoid doing an expensive bone scan for a MILD lameness.) I asked the vet whether the mare should also be on something “stomach buffering” during this course of Bute, and he said “no, not if her routine isn’t changed and she gets plenty of forage” (she is out 24/7 on pasture.)

So there are ALWAYS potential side effect to be considered, but if the benefits outweigh the side effects, isn’t it usually worth taking that small risk?

How many equine fatalities happen at BN/N level from bleeding out–as a result of (any) medication?

I’m just cranky because this is the third student of mine, who despite a reasonable need, has been unable to get Pentosan for their horse from the local vet. How is it that Morven Park (and my own vets, and other student’s vets) have no problem with this?

[deltawave]

What reasons are the vets giving?

A rik vs. benefit calculation is the owner’s to make, WITH the vet. Not BY the vet. (IMO)