People Attempting to Undermine Safe Sport

Bluntly… I’m curious if anyone with USEF or USHJA has asked her this question. DC has been very public in terms of specifically seeking to sit down at a table and negotiate with SafeSport officials… For changes that her organization wants to see in their processes. She also has routinely sought information that seems intended to be used in an effort to damage SafeSport’s credibility.

She currently is not just member of USEF, but also a licensed official. She’s obligated to take SafeSport training and obligated to agree to abide by SafeSport code, in order to continue to be a member.

But it seems like given that she is not just a member, but also a licensed official AND the president of an anti SS advocacy organization, it’s a fair question to ask if she is truly willing to abide by the SafeSport code and process, given how flawed she claims it is…

In my (entirely too) long post, I mentioned the lawsuit that I read an article about last week about an eye opening lawsuit involving the USOPC and a whistleblower. It appeared in USA Today last week, and the headline was:

“Ex-Olympic doctor Bill Moreau says he was fired by USOPC for reporting abuse cases”

Just in case anyone wants to google it and read. I found it a very disheartening article to read on this entire topic. Bottom line, though I think the revamp of the SafeSport portion of the USEF website is really well done, and the Michael Henry presentations were informative and well done… there are concerns in MANY different sports that the NGBs are doing little more than paying lip service to SafeSport compliance, and there is a long way to go before there is a true change in culture within the sports. Sad… but true.

3 Likes

Personally I think it is well within anyone’s rights to attempt to change an institution from within. In fact, I don’t see where anyone is questioning the moral correctness of that idea in general.

What I question, and I think what other people are questioning, are the particular changes that DC and her organization are pushing for. I’m quite comfortable disagreeing with people over all kinds of rules and politics. But, if someone wants to make equestrian sports (and other youth sports) a safer and more tolerant place for pedophiles and abusers, I feel that I have to question that–for a variety of reasons. When you hire someone, even just to teach a clinic, you become temporarily responsible for, and of course associated with, that person’s behavior.

I don’t think anyone is suggesting that DC should be blacklisted. Merely, we are discussing the idea that at what point a group or individual might choose to refrain from doing business with a person who, for example, despite following the rules publicly promotes misinformation or an unpalatable agenda. I personally think it is an interesting question because in general I don’t think most people really do much in the way of “vetting” trainers and clinicians. It has been my experience that people, in general, question trainers very little and worry very little (or zero) about trainers’ opinions/views outside of them doing their job. DC is unique in that she has chosen to put herself front and center in this debate in such a public manner. It’s an interesting choice.

7 Likes

Here’s the thing. You don’t get to decide who joins in the discussion or how. If YOU stick with the productive parts of the discussion, rather than these Q&P definitions, it will raise the level of the discussion instead of lowering it.

If that is what you want.

6 Likes

@Midge - I will take your words to me under advisement, as I don’t recollect ever having a pattern of contentious back and forth with you before on a SafeSport thread. And knock it off.

Anyone can participate in the discussion - that’s fair. But the straw man fallacies come up REPEATEDLY. On every single thread about SS. I’ve gotten exceptionally irritable with respect to it.

4 Likes

So…I just got a preview of the Georgia Hunter Jumper Association 's newsletter that contains an announcement about a three day educational clinic in June featuring DC. They certainly are aware of her efforts

3 Likes

I saw that and am very disappointed.

3 Likes

I’m trying to be fair… and the thought occurred that maybe some of the clinics were organized as far back as last fall, prior to the formal creation of the Athletes for Equity group? I think the group was incorporated and went live in mid October. For sure the USHJA Goldstar clinics were organized and set up before then, and perhaps the same is true of multiple other events?

In all truth, myself and many others expected the organization to quietly sputter out after the GM ban was upheld by the arbitrator, and after the USHJA Town Hall involving a Michael Henry from SafeSport. The fact that it hasn’t is a bit of a head scratcher

1 Like

Personally, I find it disgusting that a judge and someone very involved with clinics that include youth would publicly denounce an organization that’s been put in place to keep our youth from harm. I think there should be consequences for that. I think GM should be in prison with a very lustful cell-mate named Bubba. DC thinks GM should be excused for his actions and allowed to continue working with kids because he’s an old man and how should be support himself? That is completely black and white for me as a survivor that has struggled and will struggle for LIFE because of a predator. If I owned a stables, I wouldn’t allow DC or any of the ISWG group anywhere near my property. Clearly they care more about pedo “rights” than they do about the rights of children to get through life unmolested.

13 Likes

You misread me and reduced a more complicated point to a simple one. Sadly, it’s not the one I made.

I think DC is a careless thinker. That is how cruelty comes out of her intellectual laziness and conviction that there’s no need to actually consider her opposition’s merits or efforts. She just wants what she wants and doesn’t see a whole lot standing in her way because she makes sure not to study the problem and look.

And lots and lots of Americans will join her. It’s easy. It’s satisfying. It’s currently acceptable.

18 Likes

Popping back up this morning to apologize for getting off track in this discussion, and “going low” as they say. Midge was right to call me out.

These issues are sensitive and important to many, and I should conduct myself better on these forums. I’ve had stuff going on that’s made me a bit frazzled for the last two months, and I need to not let it impact how I participate in community discussions in a negative way. And it has. I will own it and try to do better.

7 Likes

I appreciate you engaging on the merits of the issue. It sounds like you are saying you don’t believe she supports child molestation, but you fault her for being intellectually lazy and not thinking things through carefully. That is a reasonable position. Since I don’t know her, I can’t evaluate to what degree she should be condemned for what seems (based on what’s been posted here) to be very unclear writing/thinking. She certainly appears to be no match for Michael Henry (who impressed me very favorably for a number of reasons).

2 Likes

bold is mine.

I agree that her thoughts are not well articulated, but that’s quite a swipe to take at someone you don’t know.

Well, the context is that various posters are condemning her as a pedophile enabler and suggesting that people (such as Pony Club) should refuse to do business with her. I am raising the question of whether there may be a more charitable explanation for what she is doing–like that she isn’t that well-educated about SafeSport in particular or about different forms of adjudication or about how to write a persuasive position paper.

I agree with you that it’s a delicate question to raise (though you acknowledge her thoughts are not well-articulated), but I don’t think it’s a “swipe” on the same level as deeming her a pedophile-enabler.

If she’s going to stand up as President of an organization built to undermine SS and publicly side with a pedophile, then I’d say the swipes are deserved. If she’s not well-educated about SS, then should she be running AfE? If she is well-educated about SS, then she’s clearly in opposition to an organization put in place to keep our youth from harm and I think it would be fair for any organization where children compete to not have her in attendance. I’d actually feel better about her in the sport if she were mentally challenged, rather than willfully ignorant, but I don’t think that’s the case. She hitched her wagon to GM, and that’s the hill she chooses to die on. I can only hope her career shrivels as quickly as her morals did.

14 Likes

Let me try to come at it from a different angle, and focus not on DC, and her group, and taking swipes at her. I’m going to focus instead on a specific group of people who are impacted by her words and choice to found an organization devoted to obtaining “equity” for people accused of child abuse.

The fact of the matter is that the executive board of her organization is comprised of ISWG people… one of them is the actual founder of that Facebook group.

If I was a silent victim of sexual abuse perpetrated by GM… and I was still actively going to shows and riding or coaching, I would probably have some intense feelings regarding DC and her organization, and their advocacy on behalf of people just like my abuser… or to go one step further… their advocacy on behalf of my abuser himself.

I think that’s a fair assumption. And I personally am of the opinion that there are more than 1 silent victims of abuse, perpetrated by at least 1 of the multiple names on the SafeSport banned list. And odds are, at least 1 of these silent people is right in the middle of the hunter jumper community, right now.

These people already experienced abuse. I don’t like them experiencing more pain or being re-traumatized because of the very vocal advocacy and support in the Equestrian sport community on behalf of actual banned people, as well as potential future accused abusers.

I hope that makes more sense.

I don’t think anyone who is engaging in advocacy should be “blacklisted.” But people should be aware that this advocacy against SafeSport and ISWG stuff does have an emotional impact… in a negative painful way… on the very real silent abuse victims working amongst them as pros in the sport, or simply trying to enjoy riding abc showing as an amateur.

I don’t like that. The victims have been through enough already. People should have more care and respect for them. Even the silent ones… who do indeed exist.

7 Likes

I think if people are going to form a group like Athletes For Equity they SHOULD be educated in what it is they are opposing. There is no excuse not to be. Because, they have difficulty for whatever reason to understand Safe Sport it comes off as being mad their friends got caught.

7 Likes

Why not hold grown-ass adults accountable for what they write in public and when that published was entirely optional? One can edit. One can rant privately. If you put something in writing, I’m going to assume that that is what you meant. The onus is on the writer.

21 Likes

On the issue of people of good will coming at these issues and advocating for legislative and process change? There are indeed MANY people like that. One who I respect tremendously, and who has a twitter feed worth following if you care about these issues, is Nancy Hogshead-Makar. Her feed is public, and regularly links to news reports across the country - and from Canada - regarding SafeSport issues, and broader legal issues related to the USOPC.

She is a fierce advocate for reform. But is looking beyond SafeSport and more focused on the USOPC itself. She has linked to multiple reports related to USA Gymnastics, and updates from an attorney named John Manly, who has worked on multiple cases related to Nassar and USA Gymnastics. John Manly’s twitter feed is public as well, and you can learn an AWFUL lot by reading what he has shared with regard to SafeSport and many legal issues going on in the background. He is actively representing clients involved in cases though, so it’s good to be mindful of this when reading his opinions. He is a ferocious critic of some aspects of the laws involved in all this, and the processes that athletes have gone through when reporting. I feel no need to take any sort of “swipe” at him though, or describe him as undermining SafeSport. I think he is doing g an effective job at identifying big problems with these laws, and going at specific issues which have impacted his clients, and this sort of legal activism will quite possibly lead to overall reform… eventually.

Anyway, some of my perspective on SafeSport topics has been broadened by following both Nancy Hogshead-Makar and John Manly on social media (specifically Twitter), and reading the articles they’ve shared, as well as news about specific ongoing cases. I encourage others to check them out if you want to learn more. Nancy’s feed is excellent.

After reading about Scott Blackmun’s tenure and severance package in particular… it is pretty clear that there is some corruption at the core of the Olympic movement which allowed unchecked abuse to go on for years. There were reports and whispers about Larry Nassar for years that reached executives within the USOPC who had the power to do something about this, and something should have been done about it at that time. Not years later after more girls had been abused.

Bluntly… there have also been whispers and reports about GM for many many years. Everyone KNOWS this. He was interviewed by a South American Equestrian publication back in ?2010?, and asked what he liked most about their country, and I believe the response was, “I like how pretty the boys are.” :no: And I do believe JS did try and report about GM back in 2012. JS is a problematic witness… that is true. He apparently was high on drugs and retracted his own report after making it. Regardless, it sure looks like there was foot dragging by at least someone in leadership in terms of investigating an OBVIOUS prominent coach in the Equestrian community who ultimately was determined to have sexually abused minor athletes.

This is why SafeSport exists. Because without it, in terms of priorities… competitive success and excellence in sport comes first, financial well being and risk mitigation on behalf of the USOPC and the NGBs comes in a close second… and the emotional and physical well being of athletes, and maintaining a safe and healthy sporting environment and community overall, especially for minor athletes? Those issues come in as a VERY distant third. :cry:

Given that… what does everyone make of the organizers of these different clinics and elite shows deciding to hire the President of Athletes for Equity - an organization that is incredibly tied to the ISWG community?

The organizers are ABSOLUTELY well within their rights to hire her. She’s definitely highly qualified, a sought after clinician, and a well respected judge.

But I think the choice to hire DC shows that the people doing the hiring are still stuck in the ”pre SafeSport” mentality, where excellence in competitive sport is the number one priority, economic concerns related to their particular organization or show is the number two priority… and the emotional well being of athletes, and maintaining a safe and healthy sporting environment and community overall, especially for minor athletes? :sigh: That is still lower down on the list of priorities, and I personally wish it weren’t.

That’s how I see it. I’m not saying anyone should fire DC if she has already been hired. Nor am I saying anyone should blacklist DC. But I am saying that key decision makers who actually choose which clinician to pursue, or judge to hire for a specific show … I think these people SHOULD be aware of what a damaging, sad thing sexual abuse of minor athletes by coaches is. The folks doing the hiring really should consider the public positions well known figures in our sport have taken on this topic, and the public statements that have been made. The folks doing the hiring should actually care about this issue. Not just because of the obvious moral factors involved, but because it’s important to the sport as a whole not to turn a blind eye to such things. Granted, all they are technically required to do is complete SafeSport training on the required schedule, and agree to follow the code, and make sure anyone they hire is NOT suspended by USEF or on the SafeSport lifetime banned list. But… I think the people doing the hiring should also actually pause, and take some time to think about it all a bit more. I’m putting the onus on THEM. Take some time to think about the potential silent victims in our midst. Some of whom are, in all likelihood, well regarded and well liked professionals or amateurs. Some of these silent victims are just trying to put the horrible stuff they have personally endured behind them emotionally, and continue on as a positive and productive part of the sport. Don’t create an environment that drives out those people. That’s a loss to the community and the sport. Create a community that is easier for them to be part of while they continue on their own journey with respect to healing. Furthermore… don’t be afraid of making choices that DO actually make supporters of known child molesters upset. At this point, there are many folks who wouldn’t be all that sad if those people (vocal supporters of child molesters) DID decide to self select, and leave the sport, because it was no longer such a welcoming and easy environment and community for their child molesting friends to be a part of.

We all play a part in having a good community and culture in our sport that works for everyone. Especially the folks in leadership, who make decisions regarding which clinicians to hire and promote, which of the qualified and licensed officials to hire for major shows, etc etc. I’m sad and concerned by what I see as a failure to realize on the part of some in leadership, that the current moment is about ADJUSTING priorities. It’s about giving more weight to the issue of safety, and the physical and emotional well being of all athletes… most especially, minor athletes. The future of the sport depends on minor athletes.

There are many many great professionals out there who can do clinics and judge who have NOT been publicly speaking out in a manner that very likely re-traumatizes silent victims of childhood sexual abuse who are part of the sport. And who are not going around publicly making statements saying that a man who as been investigated for child molestation involving minor athletes, and found guilty by the preponderance of the evidence, should STILL be part of our sporting community.

I think it is fair to highlight on this thread which organizers and shows are making choices that many folks are disappointed by. Highlighting these choices is NOT the same thing as a witch hunt. It’s simply holding people accountable for their choices and public statements, and making sure others in the sport who are not closely following SafeSport and related topics are aware.

I hope I have done a better job today of expressing why I started this thread, what I see going on that concerns me, and why I disagree with others in terms of characterizing my positions as “black and white” or tantamount to some sort of “witch hunt” or a call for a “black list” of some kind. I’ve probably gone too far, and been too snarky, and engaged in overly heated rhetoric at times. I can own that. And try and do better. I hope people coming at these issues from any number of different perspectives can also take a moment to self reflect, and adjust, and try and do better when speaking out. We are all human. Nobody’s perfect. These issues are important though, and merit serious consideration, and thoughtful, careful discussion.

I welcome feedback from anyone who sees things differently. And will do my best to NOT be a jerk, and to NOT go low in terms of my responses, and get snarky. It’s just not a good way to engage when dealing with really serious and sensitive issues like this. :o

18 Likes

@Virginia Horse Mom As always I wish I could like your post more than once.

4 Likes

To be honest, I did not read your words as a “charitable explanation” for her actions and more specifically as the lack of education as being lack of education about safe sport in particular. This is a person that has to date been very successful as a trainer. Wagon hitching to GM aside for just a moment she has been successful so presumably has adequate cognitive ability and education to function in her chosen capacity. That said, I think it is more than appropriate to hold her accountable for her actions and to point out that she is in fact striving to be an enabler of a pedophile (wagon hitch on tight). She needs to own it to paraphrase MVP (post #378). Whether people choose to do business with her or not is up to them.

@Jenerationx - I totally agree that swipes about her actions are well deserved. I don’t mean to sound like I am defending her actions at all because I think they are despicable. I really wasn’t meaning to “defend” her as a person either. It just seemed like a low and unnecessary blow and the sort of statement (upscale name calling) that her defenders could latch onto thereby avoiding the real issue of what she is standing for.

4 Likes