Oklahoma is a small world. I know of this mare. I would not describe her as a successful hunter. A good lesson horse, yes, but I have not seen her at the shows around here…
I would not breed her.
If you want to show, get an actual warmblood (or a horse that moves like one).
The draft/draft crosses around here do not pin well and almost always max out around 2’3".
If you breed to a Perch, be sure to find out if the stud has the PSSM gene. It’s very prevalent in the breed and you don’t want to a) perpetuate it or b) have to manage a PSSM horse if you don’t have to.
[QUOTE=SnicklefritzG;8917441]
Yeah, makes you wonder when it’s someone’s first post.[/QUOTE]
And yet another person with a first post in this thread. Could be a coincidence but it makes one wonder.
[QUOTE=ChasPonyCat;8918584]
And yet another person with a first post in this thread. Could be a coincidence but it makes one wonder.[/QUOTE]
If the OP is who I think it is, then I do not think they are a troll.
Would have thought they would know better on what pins around here.
Setting aside this PARTICULAR mare…
I have known some 3/4 TB 1/2 draft (mostly shire) horses who were pretty nice sport horses. I think that combination (mostly TB, just a big of draft) can be a good one. So if I had a 50/50 draft/TB that I was SET on breeding for a sport horse foal-- I would be looking for a quality sport-bred/sport-used TB. I would NOT be looking to add more draft. I would be looking to add blood.
[QUOTE=vxf111;8918920]
Setting aside this PARTICULAR mare…
I have known some 3/4 TB 1/2 draft (mostly shire) horses who were pretty nice sport horses. I think that combination (mostly TB, just a big of draft) can be a good one. So if I had a 50/50 draft/TB that I was SET on breeding for a sport horse foal-- I would be looking for a quality sport-bred/sport-used TB. I would NOT be looking to add more draft. I would be looking to add blood.[/QUOTE]
I have both, Clyde/Dutch cross and Percheron/Oldenburg cross. Both great jumpers, very personable horses, athletic, scoopy
In their days, jumped high in jumpers or hunters. Love these guys
Clyde is 19, 17 hands bay roan, no feathers, could be in front of the hitch team, the Perch is 18 hands, black
Both of mine have been Champions many times at big shows, yes Long Stirrup which is quite competitive
I remember watching a thrilling puissance competition on TV a few decades ago. The mare who won was half Clydesdale, half Thoroughbred as I recall, and since then, I have always noticed how long-legged Clydesdales are, compared to other draft breeds.
But I take it that jumping and hunting classes are two very different things.
OP is looking for breeding advice…I agree there are some really good Clyde or Perch crosses…but not so much in the Hunter ring. To breed this mare back to a draft stallion would surely be taking a step backward from the goal of a “show hunter”. JMO.
[QUOTE=PeteyPie;8919484]
I remember watching a thrilling puissance competition on TV a few decades ago. The mare who won was half Clydesdale, half Thoroughbred as I recall, and since then, I have always noticed how long-legged Clydesdales are, compared to other draft breeds.
But I take it that jumping and hunting classes are two very different things.[/QUOTE]
Colleen Rutledge has a TB/ Clyde x that competes at the 4* level in eventing and is certainly nice enough to do the local hunters. It’s not that they can’t be super nice horses, it’s that it takes a lot of specialized knowledge to cross them successfully and get consistently good moving and jumping horses. If you are starting with a mare of unknown parentage the odds are stacked against you.
Thank you for all the great advice and some of the skeptics. I’m not just breeding just to breed I’ve been thinking about this for a very long time and have talked to many different experienced breeders. I know that I only have one shot to breed her and I’m trying to get it right. I think I have decided to breed her to a 16.3 appendix who is a very lovely mover and throws very good minded colts.
For a horse with unknown breeding, it’s best to cross with a similar phenotype at the very least- don’t try to go much bigger/heavier/lighter in particular, and your chances of coming out with a non-franken-pony become much greater. Look for stallions that REALLY stamp their babies with some dominant genes. I wouldn’t go back to draft, honestly I’d look for a high-percentage TB warmblood (or full TB) stallion with a SUPERB trot for a mare like that.
It’s not ideal to breed a mare like that with so many nice youngsters out there for the taking, but I understand the desire. My heart horse has no papers but is fabulously talented, nice mover, great brain so I’m struggling with a similar thought process. IF I go that route, I plan to only do it once, and I have the land/money that even if the baby is horrible it can live out its life with me. But still haven’t made the decision for sure yet, because again, there are loads of nice horses that have already been born. Another thing to think about- if you love the mare, are you willing to lose her should something go wrong during birth? I know a few breeders and sometimes it’s very expensive and heartbreaking.
I am late to this, and have mixed feelings.
OP I see your most recent post, that you have decided to breed her to an appendix. So you are adding yet another breed to the mix.
That might work and then again it might not. As a breeder, I would not add AQHA to this mix. Remember that when you are breeding you are not just getting the two individuals in front of you, but also their ancestors.
I understand the desire to breed your own mare, and as a breeder, I also understand the costs and the risks. I also feel sick on a daily basis about the number of horses going to slaughter.
Many posters have carefully outlined the risks involved.
If I were you, I would contact Kathy St Martin, who used to post on this bb,she and her husband are equine breeding experts, stand a number of good stallions and are located in OK.
IF you decide to breed your mare, she is an excellent resource person, and will be able to help you make a decision. Good luck.
They are also on FB.
Since I can’t edit my post, I want to make it clear, that IF I were going to breed this mare it would NOT be to either a Clyde or Perch (to answer the original question)
Yes, the draft crosses can and have produced lovely horses, but the nicest of them are usually 3/4TB or more.
If I were going to breed her, with all the reservations stated earlier, I would breed to a good TB or a modern WB, of similar phenotype to her.
We have had TB/Clyde and TB/Perch horses through the barn a few times for training and as client horses. I would not recommend breeding this combination if you are looking for a “hunter/jumper” prospect, particularly if your horse already has some draft blood, for the following reasons:
They tend to be heavy movers, with short strides and lots of knee action.
In my experience, they don’t jump in the nicest form and don’t usually have nice, tight knees. For the hunters, it would be a waste of entry fees; for the jumpers, I foresee lots of rails being pulled past the 2’6" height. Build and way of going CAN be quite limiting, no matter how much heart they may have.
They aren’t always the prettiest things. Hunter judges like pretty and correct-ish movers, and draft crosses just aren’t usually up to par.
Why not breed to a sturdier built warmblood? Most European warmbloods, particularly the Dutch, do have many draft ancestors. Or, as a previous poster said, perhaps consider an Irish stallion, either Draught or sport horse, as they tend to have a bigger yet refined build and a nice way of going.
Thoroughbred/draft crosses are great in the hunt field, where jumping style and prettiness doesn’t matter. They are great for taller/heavier riders as well.
Be careful breeding to appendix! Just because the stallion itself is a nice mover, does not mean it will throw a nice moving baby, particularly since your foal will be the definition of a mutt. I own three appendix, and show at many AQHA shows, and the appendix horses tend to be short movers (even if they are tall), and flat jumpers. Google some of the working hunter trips at the Quarter Horse World Show and QH Congress if you think you want one. Even the nice ones that win move and jump like crap, with loose legs and no bascule. They don’t usually win at shows other than AQHA shoes for a reason.
Also, AQHA won’t register your foal as an Appendix if the mare is multiple breeds herself.
Be careful breeding to an appendix! Just because the stallion itself is a nice mover, does not mean it will throw a nice moving baby, particularly since your foal will be the definition of a mutt. I own three appendix, and show at many AQHA shows, and the appendix horses tend to be short movers (even if they are tall), and flat jumpers. Google some of the working hunter trips at the Quarter Horse World Show and QH Congress if you think you want one. Even the nice ones that win move and jump like crap, with loose legs and no bascule. The ones that do well at USEF shows are few and far between.
Also, AQHA won’t register your foal as an Appendix if the mare is multiple breeds herself.
The mare looks a nice enough “using” horse; a nice sturdy lesson type horse.
I wouldn’t breed her. To anything.
Why anyone would think this or this would make a good show hunter is beyond even me. Draft breeders do want flat hunter-type motion.
I think that breeding your mare to an appendix is a reasonable idea. I have ridden a QH/TB/draft cross that is a good guy and has won ribbons, but is maxed out at 2’9 in both scope and stride. A warmblood dad might get you more show horse potential.
First, I have to insert the obligatory “don’t breed” caution. Breeding is always a crapshoot. You can improve the odds by breeding well-bred mares with conformation and ability suitable for your desired activity to a well-bred stallion with conformation and ability suitable for your desired activity, but it’s still a roll of the dice. If you really want to raise your own, spend your money on a nice weanling. It’s still a risk, but not as great as breeding your own.
But, if you are determined to go through with this, I think an appendix stallion is a good choice.
By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.
For Customers
Company
Terms of Use
