[QUOTE=Tiki;3328092]
Do all of you also buy foreign cars and foreign made clothes and work for foreign companies as well?[/QUOTE]
car: Nissan
clothes: the tag on my t-shirt says “made in Bangladesh” and the one on my pants “made in Malaysia”. I haven’t checked all my other stuff.
company: the local university - so yeah, American.
1 out of 3 - did I win anything?
P.S.: horse: Appaloosa, made in Canada
I’ve not folllowed those threads, sorry, but she makes perfect sense in this one.
[quote=siegi b.;3337189]Dune, I’ll be sure to ask your permission next time I want to chime in… 
[/quote]
Oh, you’re just being funny now…:lol:
[quote=YankeeLawyer;3337364]The European model of the Sporthorse Auction route will not become viable here unless and until buyers can get over the stigma associated with auctions and be prepared to pay well into 5 figures for foals and six figures for riding horses – as they do at the Elite Auctions in Europe. It costs a fortune to host an event of that magnitude. And I really don’t see US buyers spendng that kind of money – even assuming we offered EXACTLY the same quality and number of horses at the events. I would be thrilled to be proven wrong on that, but I doubt it will happen.
.
[/quote]
I say, “sellers first”, as I’ve attended many an auction here in the US and they usually are indeed “castoffs”. Of course, as buyers we are to be leery, I can sell my horses easily via other means, why can’t others, right? It may just never be a venue that works well here, but who knows???
:yes::yes::yes:
I also like the idea of a comprehensive website with standardized criteria for listing horse. But, as AHF can tell you (she runs the website for the Mid-Atlantic Hanoverian Breeders club http://mahb.homestead.com/index.html , and perhaps she’ll also post about this), it is devilishly difficult to get even interested sellers to give full details, let alone a decent photo or video. The MAHB website has offered free postings for its members for many years now and has had difficulty getting its members/sellers to take the trouble to post horses. Some of the larger breeders (like Rolling Stone Farm) do such an excellent job on their own websites that they view yet another posting as unnecessary work (relying on prior business contacts and/or the link from the MAHB website). Many of the small breeders (many of whom have excellent horses for sale) don’t have ideal facilities or adequate staff to enable them to put together a good photo or video. I understand from Copper Bay (who runs the AHS website) that the hanoverian.org site has faced similar issues with the sale postings on that site. So, a comprehensive web site would face similar challenges to the breed-specific ones already organized for this purpose. Perhaps regionally located photo and/or video creating opportunities would help. But, clearly, one of the main issues is that sellers (if they truly want to sell horses they have available) need to be encouraged to participate more effectively in the regional and/or breed websites that already are available or could be made available.
That’s a very interesting observation, Dennis.
I’m getting the idea that a lot of breeders don’t look at things from a buyer’s POV, or only very little. This is a hard thing to do and common in other areas, such as real estate, where sellers have a hard time recognizing the issues that are paramount to buyers. Being able to put yourself very clearly in the position of someone else is never simple.
Thinking outside the box is not an issue if it’s a seller’s market. It becomes one when it’s a buyer’s market. I hope you guys can make some progress there. There’s one thing for sure, if you have a dead site with little change or poor quality, either in the offerings or the site set-up itself, you might as well forget it. What you must develop is the GO TO place for buyers. There should be more than what the buyer expects, not less.
What sort of incentives could you get going to encourage breeders to participate? On the videos, could you locate good regional pros and work with them to develop a sales video format, and perhaps a discount because you are giving them some organized business? I would think some professional camera people would be VERY interested in getting hold of potentially larger client bases.
Maybe it’s different people, but what I hear overall is the complaint that buyers are going outside the country, and yet a real lack of interest in doing something effective to address the reasons and to change it. 
From my own experience (40 plus years of horse breeding) the best age range to get the best price is 4-7. Very few people have a farm. Very few boarding situations have a group environment to raise young horses. Very few buyers have the mileage to put the first six month under saddle in to a young horse correctly. Our program is geared to get our stock going under saddle and be ready for the new owner to take in to a boarding barn and start showing. In that age range we also have a clear idea of the true career path a young horse is going to take to enhance our reputation as the breeder.
Just my own experience…
[QUOTE=DennisM;3340121]
Perhaps regionally located photo and/or video creating opportunities would help. .[/QUOTE]
I have been thinking about this, also, actually, because I think one very positive thing that came out of the MAHB Salefest was that the participants were able to get very good videos of their horses. The sale took place in a large indoor arena and each horse was presented individually. The announcer provided information about the horse’s background, pedigree, etc. while the horse worked loose in the arena (older horses were presented under saddle). The quality of the videos was nice. I actually bought one horse after first seeing him on one of those videos that a friend randomly had.
So, perhaps rather than doing a full scale sale, it would be worthwhile to have a photo /video day periodically in various locations so people could share the costs of gettng these professionals out, and have access to an appropriate arena (for those who don’t at home) to show off the horses. Or, maybe these opportunities could be organized in conjunction with some shows, where the horses are presumably already turned out to look their best and there are photographers and videographers available.
[QUOTE=not again;3340169]
From my own experience (40 plus years of horse breeding) the best age range to get the best price is 4-7. Very few people have a farm. Very few boarding situations have a group environment to raise young horses. Very few buyers have the mileage to put the first six month under saddle in to a young horse correctly. Our program is geared to get our stock going under saddle and be ready for the new owner to take in to a boarding barn and start showing. In that age range we also have a clear idea of the true career path a young horse is going to take to enhance our reputation as the breeder.
Just my own experience…;)[/QUOTE]
We just need to clone Tasker and we would be on our way
Really?
Perhaps I’m being unfair since I work in technology and this seems silly easy, but in this day and age, I think anyone who can afford to breed horses on ANY scale should have the resources to take a decent set of digital photos / video and load them up onto the web.
The list of sites that let your everyone and their grandmother do this are too numerous to list, camera technology is extremely affordable, and worst case, if you have ZERO friends and acquaintances, all you need is a tripod if you’re riding – or film the horse in turnout if you don’t ride yourself. Even if you don’t have your own computer with Internet access, it’s possible to borrow or buy time (haven’t done the latter in years, but it used to be possible at places where you could pay to print/copy for example).
I can fully believe that the results may not be “ideal” from a production/content perspective, but really, I fail to see what “special facilities” or “staff” one would need to achieve a fully acceptable result.
[QUOTE=MelantheLLC;3340151]
Maybe it’s different people, but what I hear overall is the complaint that buyers are going outside the country, and yet a real lack of interest in doing something effective to address the reasons and to change it. [/QUOTE]
I don’t think it is so much a lack of interest in improving – I think many would welcome ways to market horses more effectively. But, the options do have to be viable ones. Some of the suggestions here are simple enough – get photos that are a 10 and good video as well - okay, fine. That is doable. Some, while perhaps completely awesome ideas in the abstract, need some more work to make them viable. One reason that buying from a breeder is interesting is that ordinarily a buyer has the opportunity to get good value – a quality horse for a lot less than one would pay if the horse were already going on the show circuit, and certainly a lot less than the same horse would cost with three middlemen involved in the sale (or middlewomen). And buyers expect that. Breeders’ margins, if any, tend to be slim. So the more expensive the marketing aspect, the more expensive the horses are going to have to be to justify that, and ultimately, it may not make sense for the seller or the buyer (though the buyer will definitely be aware of more options, would they be at a price buyer is interested in?).
Real estate is an interesting analogy, because most real estate buyers have very little interest in or ability to visualize what a property “could be” with various changes – some will walk out if they don’t like the paint color, let alone major issues that need to be addressed. But, even with real estate, sellers have to make a decision as to what changes are necessary to get the house sold (those would be the must-dos) and what changes would be nice or ideal, but ultimately don’t make sense (because they would cost too much and/or be an overimprovement relative to other homes in the neighborhood). And, while buyers could wish for an extra bedroom as an addition, a finished basement, or a swimming pool, they do have to consider what the property would cost if those things were actually there – would the property then all of a sudden be at a wholly different price point?
But, I am wondering too, whether perhaps the market has changed sufficiently in the last 5 years that maybe something like the MAHB sale that used to be held in VA would work – but maybe it needs to be in a different part of the country. Since this thread was started, I have received several pms from people on the West Coast and Midwest asking for help finding horses (and I did my best to make recs – so I hope they helped!). So, while I happen to be completely spoiled by living in a region with farm after farm of super youngsters within driving distance, other areas that don’t have such a concentration of good prospects likely need much more innovative ways to bring buyers and breeders together (not to say we can’t improve here also – of course we can, because if nothing else it appears that many in other regions aren’t even aware of the options here).
Unfortunately, I have also found that getting information from people can be like pulling teeth. I used to do a newsletter for our local Hano. Breed club and also the monthly article in the Regional horse mag and I would have to beg and beg people to send me updates and sales information from their breeding programs. Eventually, one gives up the exercise in frustration and focuses on their own program/farm.
Hopefully the new training program starting up with the AHS will lead to quality Hanoverian auctions on this side of the pond. It’s doable, it just takes time and enough people to stand behind it to get it started. :yes:
[QUOTE=YankeeLawyer;3340434]
We just need to clone Tasker and we would be on our way :)[/QUOTE]
AWWWW! YL! You are too sweet! :winkgrin: :lol:
All joking aside, I would like a clone of myself to do the paperwork/office stuff for the farm, advertising, correspondence & to take the boys to their breeding appointments. Actually, that would be 2 clones - the paperwork clone, & the trailer driving clone…then I would be free to ride full time.
In all seriousness, we have an excellent working student at the moment who has a strong hunter background and is competing at Intermediate in eventing, plus a friend who rides at the track to get all the horses worked. With horses for the lesson program, my FEI crew, the middle level young stock & the four year olds it makes for a full day…each and every day. I can not imagine breeding riding horses and not being a rider to get them trained the way mom & I want them to go. The expense of paying riders alone would put us out of business.
As it is just me as the competition rider now, we do send the youngsters out between 2 1/2-3 1/2 to be broken…that is a big expense but worth it as I can not afford to have ‘down time’ for an injury. Plus, he gets them started hacking, ponying & used to all the miscellaneous things that a horse can encounter in their travels. FWIW every horse has a customized jumping & dressage program, so they are able to be aimed in multiple directions, thus building a strong foundation and being more marketable to a wider audience.
We have had a pretty steady stream of buyers throughout my lifetime with the horses going to both loving & successful show homes. It is a wonderful business to have grown up in IMHO.
YL, I have a pretty nice indoor and facility. I would allow the use of it for people to do sales videos, just do not ask me to organize anything. And if they wanted to arrange something for clients. I have in the past called around to people I know and invited them to bring horses to be tried at my place. Maybe we could pay Klaus or JJ or ?? to come and ride them for the videos???
Bellfleur - that is very generous of you!! Actually, that may just be what we need - a nice facility for videos and sales presentations. And trying to get some good young horse riders is also a great idea… Using the same facility would ensure the same lighting and quality of video, same background, so that folks can truly focus on the horses being presented. Let me chew on that for a while and thank you very much for offering!
Best,
Siegi
[QUOTE=Bellfleur;3340831]
YL, I have a pretty nice indoor and facility. I would allow the use of it for people to do sales videos, just do not ask me to organize anything. And if they wanted to arrange something for clients. I have in the past called around to people I know and invited them to bring horses to be tried at my place. Maybe we could pay Klaus or JJ or ?? to come and ride them for the videos???[/QUOTE]
That is a really generous offer. (For those that have not seen Bellfleur’s place, “pretty nice” is a huge understatement; it is GORGEOUS and her indoor is superb). I was thinking perhaps Jordan K. might be interested in handling the videography and/or photography for something like that. And having Klaus or JJ would be awesome.
Edited to add: we should also think about a smaller rider who would be good for any smaller horses – maybe Fred W.? Klaus and JJ are very leggy and would dwarf the smaller guys.
Having a place to get good video would not only help the under saddle horses, but the younger ones too. When I try to video them, they just gallop off into the sunset. or they stand there looking at me like “so?, yawn”. Trying to get a jump chute video is also impossible without the right place and lots of help.
Right, it can take up to 4 people to get a good video of a horse - especially a young one. When it comes to work, I think you all know that you can run out of friends really, really fast. It also takes help with a good sense of horses AND a good sense of timing. And the last thing you want to hear in a video is “NO, don’t crack the whip when he’s doing what we want!”, or “Back off, NOW, that’s what I want him to do!”.
If we could get Klaus or JJ, then all the horses could be presented in a standard format, like the Euro auction videos, including the young horses who could be presented in hand as well as free, plus the jumping chute.
I just wanted to chime in with a thought. Timonium holds a Thoroughbred horse auction every year. My trainer has been there and the experience is that it is more of a high dollar yearling sale - no ‘cast offs’, but it is established at a place to go for your future race horse. It has been there for a long time, though - and most likely did not start out that way.
With Warmbloods, they are still fairly new as ‘American Made’ and people are skeptical of them. It doesn’t help that a lot of dressage sales pictures I see on internet based horse sale places are with riders riding to forward, hands to low, to high, piano hands, legs not correct, etc.
Working on good and consistent video and pictures is a great idea, then working on a sales. Maybe calling it a ‘Warmblood Sales’ and hosting it at a more ‘upscale’ facility will help. It is something that will take a lot of advertising and marketing initially - so having a few bad years cannot discourage the breeders/sellers.
As an example, my friend’s dad has an invention he has been marketing (selling, he has a finished product) for the last 5 years, he is finally starting to get real interest. It takes time and proper marketing. If you want to do a sale, you might want to invest in a horse marketing agent as well to see where your ads will work best, etc.
If you have a sale anywhere around the MD/DE/PA area, I would definitely attend - much easier than going from farm to farm.
Just an FYI, the Mid-Atlantic Hano Breeders’ Sale was a REALLY nice event and was held 7 consecutive years and did not work. It was held in conjunction with WB Sale (open to all WBs, not just Hanoverians), that took place each year the following day.
TB sales (auctions) really are not analogous; the economics of the racing and other sporthorse industries are wholly different because, in part, of the possibility of much bigger payoffs in the racing industry (prize money, syndication, future stud fees, etc). And, there are foreign buyers that drive the sales prices up (e.g., a few sheiks here and there). Plus, horses bought to race are almost exclusively bought with the intent to put the horse in pro training and to put a pro jockey on board, so there is no issue with regard to suitability for the owner as a riding/competition horse, level of training, or rideability – all factors that can be hard to evaluate on the fly in a sales situation.
I see what you are saying, but Hanovarian Sales in Europe are not only for people looking to ‘turn a profit’ with the horse - as in they are not going to be paying someone else to ride them and take them to money making competitions. Not all the buyers at Timonium are big owners, many are small time - looking for one or two race horses. Yes, it is geared towards race horses, that is the origin and primary purpose of the breed.
I am not sure what the marketing strategy was for the Warmbloods Sales that did not do well. If you were a part of organizing it, you can look at where the marketing and advertising failed. If you were not, it would do well to look into it.
I understand the frustration and was just tossing some ideas out there. I think a sales can work, but it needs to be marketed correctly and enough people need to be involved. Is that Warmblood Sales still running or was always attached to the Hanovarian sales and went away at the same time?
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