Thanks for writing about your experience. Much better than some of the ones that actually get printed in mags.
Thank you so much for that very informative and well written descripiton of your experience.
I can only imagine the extent of your anxiety at the auction when your horses were being bid on. I got anxious just reading about it. And even got a little misty when you won your auction, when the older gentleman kissed his new horse on the nose and when the former owners met with you in the aisle (I’m such a sap, I know).
I hope one day to be able to go and find my ‘dream’ horse, but I may have to wait outside when someone else bids on my horse(s) :winkgrin:.
[QUOTE=slc2;3289788]
if sellers got together and marketed a number of horses at one location it might help, but it’s still hard to make 1 trip and look at 6 psg horses, say, at the same place or on the same trip.[/QUOTE]
We call that a weekend in Northern Virginia. Or Maryland. Or North Carolina. Or how about Ocala, where Judy Yancey and other top farms are located. These are just the areas I am very familiar with. Within a 2 hour drive of my farm are a number of very reputable breeders, with very good horses. Any one of a number of them would be happy, I am sure, to help coordinate a buying trip so that a client could see a number of horses at once.
unfortunately, in america, one very often goes to look at one horse on one trip, and the trip costs a thousand dollars or more, even when one goes and looks at one horse. one goes to europe and it one trip looks at 25 horses, and the trip costs 1500. the math is bad.
I do know of some top breeders in more remote locations, and I am sure it is more difficult to entice people to make a trip to see one horse (though, it may very well be worthwhile, and in some cases you can get a local trainer you trust or a friend to check out the horse first to see if it is worth a visit). But, I disagree with your math – even if it is a trip to see just one horse. To most destinations in the US, I can do a R/T in one day from the East Coast, so I have only the cost of airfare and transfers from the airport. IME, breeders sometimes will even pick you up at the airport. If you book your ticket a bit in advance and/or use some frequent flyer miles, the travel cost is really not that bad. It is still possible to get plane tickets for just a few hundred dollars. Even if you stay over one night, you can usually find an inexpensive but decent hotel – and in some cases, breeders have offered to put my up for the night at their homes. So, it can be done for under 1K. And, as I indicated above, there are regions where you can plan to see a number of horses within a short distance in a day or over the course of a weekend.
Plus, if someone is that serious about riding and needs such an extraordinary horse, presumably they show, and showing usually entails some amount of travel. So, they could do some research and identify farms near the showgrounds and look at horses while on the road for showing. OR – better yet, check out what might be available at the show (e.g., Devon).
By contrast, I just bought a plane ticket to Europe from DC for my husband, and it was $1500 for coach (and not including bags or a window seat, now, apparently, for which they charge extra). Generally, a decent hotel room over there would easily be in excess of $300 a night (and add a 0 if you want to stay at a really top, top place). Presumably you wouldn’t go for just one night, either. And unless you are buying at auction, you can plan on doing a lot of driving and having the cost of a rental car, also. And if the horse does not work out or was misrepresented, you have even less recourse than you would if it were bought here.
even with the lousy exchange rate some people are still feeling they have to go to europe.
No doubt that is true for some, but as someone who has imported in the past I am now focusing my searches on horses here in the US because (1) there are some amazing horses being bred here; and (2) I will pay a premium for quality, but not for a poor exchange rate and high import costs, neither of which have anything to do with the attributes or desirability of the horse (rather, imo, these additional costs amount to a stupid tax).
Last year I spent several months looking for a filly foal after not finding one that suited in Germany (I was looking for particular lines, and in particular, Florencio). I ultimately narrowed my list to 4 foals, as follows:
– a filly by DeLaurentis, out of a mare that had won at GP in international competition in Germany; the filly was champion of a very large and competitive AHS inspection and was the spitting image of her dam;
–a filly by Flemmingh, out of (by ET) a young Olympic Idocus mare that won under saddle at DAD and is currently in training with a GP rider and winning in the FEI 5 year old division;
–a filly by Samarant, out of an SPS mare by Donnerhall that scored multiple 9s on her inspection and MPT in Germany; the filly is a 3/4 sibling to my own EMC Sandro Hit x Donnerhall mare and looks just like her;
–a filly by Florencio, out of a Jazz mare with a very distinguished damline; the filly is the younger 1/2 sister (same dam) to Waterloo S.E., who won the 4 Year Old US Dressage Championships at Lexington last year.
All 4 fillies were exceptional and it was a very tough decision. Ultimately, I bought the Florencio filly because she was the best fit for my program, and I am completely thrilled with her. She is an astounding mover, very correct in her conformation, and is the easiest baby I have ever dealt with. She was born made.
Three of the four horses were located within 1 hour drive of my house (interestingly, since I had also considered horses in California and Oregon, as well as Europe). The Florencio was born and bred less than 3 miles from my farm. Only the Samarant was a bit farther - -a 9 hour drive or a 1 1/2 hour flight to Ohio, but it is an easy day trip by plane.
Also, while I used to worry a bit about how to get the youngsters started properly, I found a really great young horse trainer nearby --Lauren Dearlove – who does a wonderful job starting the youngsters, and starts those owned by a number of top breeders. So I don’t worry about that anymore.
[QUOTE=slc2;3290205]
no one said it was simple to ‘organize sales’.
what i DO think breeders can do - rather easily - is create a ‘federation’. If there is cooperation between breeders, an agent could bring customers to 10-12 farms on a trip, reaching out to all farms within a hub area.
.[/QUOTE]
We do have that – we call them breeder friends and colleagues, and I or any one of my friends and colleagues would be happy to help people line up some prospects to try at different farms in this area, for example. I have done that even when I have no horses for sale and no financial stake whatsoever in the outcome; I do it because I happen to be familiar with a lot of breeding farms in the area and like to matchmake. My young horse trainer nearby has a busy sale barn and always has a number of very well bred, nice prospects available, and they are honestly presented. She has a huge network of breeder friends and clients and can and does hook people up very quickly for weekend shopping trips.
We also have the Mid-Atlantic Hanoverian Breeders group, and members are very good about referrals and frequently advertise prospects on the MAHB website. There are similar organizations in New England and the midwest, just off the top of my head. And I have to say, many buyers here shop with their trainers, and don’t want to pay an agent in addition to a trainer commission on the purchase price.
friends are great, but that doesn’t work well unless you know those people.
[QUOTE=slc2;3316628]
friends are great, but that doesn’t work well unless you know those people.[/QUOTE]
It really doesn’t take much to identify these people. Many of them post here, for starters. If someone can be bothered to research hotels in Verden, surely they can do a little googling and find some farms. You only need one contact who has numerous contacts and you are set. I would venture a guess that if you were to call just about any one of the breeders listed on the MAHB directory – available online – that they would be happy to show you horses and help you arrange to visit nearby farms.
Shopping in the U.S. for youngsters is one thing, shopping for made horses already under saddle is something else entirely. If you are looking for the latter, there are only a few places in the U.S. where you can see a bunch of them at one time - usually at shows where it is sometimes difficult to schedule a ride on the horses.
I agree that it is hugely expensive to shop in Europe - especially these days - but a buyer can spend just as much money running all over North America to see one horse here, one horse there, etc., etc. The best bet for finding something is probably to go to Wellington during the winter show season. However, your dream horse may not be there because its owner couldn’t afford to send it. It costs an arm and a leg to send a horse to Florida for a few months! :eek:
I’ve done both and I really don’t think it is as impossible as people are saying. I just love that people will bust their butts to figure out how to find something in Europe and buy from a stranger they have never heard of, but can’t figure out where to find sellers in the US. And not that many buyers are actually looking for a confirmed upper level horse.
I think YankeeLawyer has assessed the issue very succinctly. I’ve just shopped for a young filly myself and I found all that she said to be true. When you know what you want, as she did, (and as I did) it becomes very easy to narrow down your search. Yes, I spent a few days in a car, and I made that same trip to Ohio (11 1/2 hours for me), but it was WELL worth it. I found an amazing filly to add to my program.
During my search, US breeders’ helpfulness and generosity was wonderful. I was offered places to stay and references to other breeders without hesitation and without charge. I really don’t know why this idea of US breeders not having one governing body seems important to some; it’s clear to me that we have a very effective network, and, as YL said, it only takes a few contacts to tap into this network. If you have a clear idea of what you want – and I don’t see why this wouldn’t also apply to riding horses – you can use the phone and internet to organize a trip where you see at least a few horses on a given trip.
I disagree that it’s easier to shop for a young horse or foal than it is for a riding horse. I felt that I had so many requirements in my future broodmare that perhaps I was asking too much. Like YL, however, I found about five who would have suited (and met my requirement of being east of the Mississippi, because I didn’t want to ship a weanling across the country). I envy those who need only look for a horse that’s suitable for riding, without having to consider bloodlines, marketability of offspring, conformation, etc. I found many, many NICE horses that I would have bought in a heartbeat if I were looking for a riding horse.
As a breeder, I don’t hesitate to help people find what they’re looking for. I usually know what my fellow breeders have and can give buyers at least a few leads. My first “dream filly,” by the way, was waiting for me IN MY SAME TOWN! Ten minutes away! Granted, that was lucky, but I think that if you do your homework you can fly to certain areas of this country and see several horses. Seeing 25 in one place would, of course, be very easy, but for me it doesn’t justify the extra $10K in shipping charges, not to mention the heftier airline and travel fees.
I have a friend in AZ who is looking for a training/first level horse with potential to go up to PSG, an amateur, for $20K or under. If you could give me some leads where she could go and try 5-6, let me know. TIA
Theresa
fantastic article!
thanks so much for this fantastic article on the Verden auction!
My husband and I went every summer to the July auction between 1994-2000, buying horses for clients. Back then, you really could get a bargain.
As important for me was the chance to spend two weeks (yes, we always arrived on the same day the horses did in order to see them at the beginning of their auction experience) watching 100+ different young horses being schooled daily–a great education in terms of bloodlines and training your eye for quality of gaits. I recommend it simply as an educational experience!
[QUOTE=Margaret;3317718]
watching 100+ different young horses being schooled daily–a great education in terms of bloodlines and training your eye for quality of gaits. I recommend it simply as an educational experience![/QUOTE]
Another great educational opportunity for those interested in in the breeding side is the Breeder’s Orientation Course offered by the Hanoverian Verband offered each year for 2 weeks in October, during the stallion licensing. There is information about it on the Verband website.
IME, breeders sometimes will even pick you up at the airport.
I have offered this many times, but usually people looking at horses around here have had relatives they could stay with, or were taking a special vacation but still wanted to see horses. I have picked them up and driven them around - to other farms! if they couldn’t find something they wanted with me. We are out there and we do have nice some very, very nice horses here. It amazes me that most hunters/jumpers are sold at the shows, but dressage people are so negative about even looking there.
[QUOTE=Tiki;3317840]
It amazes me that most hunters/jumpers are sold at the shows, but dressage people are so negative about even looking there.[/QUOTE]
Most of my H/J horses were purchased at shows. The ones that were not were found via word of mouth; my trainer had a lot of contacts who were also top trainers, and she found amazing horses quickly and easily. Tiki, your point makes me wonder if dressage trainers network in the same way. My guess is, they don’t.
edited to add: come to think of it, I even purchased a horse at Devon one year – at their spring H/J show. He was champion in two divisions there that year and went on to have many good years with us, also. He was a neat horse.
Great article! The OP should submit it to one of the bigger magazines, I think many more should read it. I would also be interested in learning about prices. You don’t have to divulge Teddy’s price but how much did the chestnut with OCD go for? What were some of the prices? You can send me a PM if you want. Thanks for sharing!
[QUOTE=GreekDressageQueen;3319009]
Great article! The OP should submit it to one of the bigger magazines, I think many more should read it. [/QUOTE]
Sure, let’s not promote US breds or anything. Maybe someone should write an article on how to go about finding a horse here.
And Hanoverian auction prices are posted immediately following each auction on the Hano Verband website; they post the entire list of horses with their names, names of sire and dam, price, and the country where the buyer is from. They also post videos and pics of the horses.
Kind of like our very own governing body, the USEF, putting on a presentation to the Young Rider Graduates a few years ago on “How to Buy a Horse in Europe”. They support our 5 and 6 year old Young Horses so well for the World Championships too (NOT!!!)
[QUOTE=Tiki;3319377]
Kind of like our very own governing body, the USEF, putting on a presentation to the Young Rider Graduates a few years ago on “How to Buy a Horse in Europe”. They support our 5 and 6 year old Young Horses so well for the World Championships too (NOT!!!)[/QUOTE]
Don’t get me started on that one, LOL. I think it is a disgrace what occurred this year with the World Young Horse Championship qualifiers – in addition to the 0 support they provide for those that manage to qualify.
[QUOTE=YankeeLawyer;3319075]
Sure, let’s not promote US breds or anything. Maybe someone should write an article on how to go about finding a horse here.
.[/QUOTE]
Yes–some one should. It’s clear from reading this thread (and others) that there are lots of common perceptions about the limitations/difficulties of shopping in the US. The great strength of this article is that it very clearly demystified the process, complete with well-done and well-thought out helpful links. Why not do something similar for US shoppers, perhaps based on regions?
[QUOTE=Margaret;3319429]
Yes–some one should. It’s clear from reading this thread (and others) that there are lots of common perceptions about the limitations/difficulties of shopping in the US. The great strength of this article is that it very clearly demystified the process, complete with well-done and well-thought out helpful links. Why not do something similar for US shoppers, perhaps based on regions?[/QUOTE]
I think that’s an excellent idea. I have pm’ed some breeders about it because, you are right, clearly people are not aware of the opportunities here and that is not their fault, and I am hoping one (or some) will write an article about it.
And, to the OP, I do not mean to suggest your article was not a good read; it was very enjoyable and touching to read about your nice new horse. I have a horse purchased at Verden also. But as I said, there are plenty of nice ones here and I buy here, too. And with the exchange and high transport costs, I am not thinking about importing in the foreseeable future. So, for those that are also feeling that pinch, we need to increase awareness of what very good options are right here.
