Petition in favor of FEI and Kittel

[slc2]

[B]I didn’t say that it’s ok for a horse’s tongue to be blue from a severe injury, this is one of your typical do you beat your wife twists ;).

But I also don’t believe dismounting would have ‘showed some concern’. If I thought my horse’s tongue was stuck on something I’d not take the time to dismount, especially not if I was a tall skinny guy and thought I could reach the mouth easily without dismounting. Especially not if the horse had the habit for a long time, and I’d put the tongue back in the mouth hundreds of times from the saddle, and I had already seen many times that his tongue would be fine after he lolled it out.

I said the lighting in the video was very distorted, and that the sides and bottom of the tongue looked good, and that it’s quite possible that hanging out in the air makes the surface capillaries on the top constrict, that any horse I ever saw loll his tongue out for any length of time lost quite a bit of the pink color on the top surface, and it’s also possible the tongue was not harmed, especially given the rider was able to replace it normally, and it’s also possible that the horse was in no pain.

I also think that the first video was put together to intensify the image of the horse being abused. Would Epona be willing to change the color balance of the video during the horse having the tongue out? I would certainly think so, in fact, I believe they did. The color balance is very much toward the yellow side in that period of the video.

On first view, the video was very, very obviously and clearly designed to intensify the situation, to create a very strong emotional effect on the viewer. It certainly did that for me. I had to go back and very carefully watch it to change my impression.

I must say, they did a GREAT job of intensifying the situation. GREAT.

In not seeing more than the video, I’m not so sure the horse was in pain or harmed. What I saw was a horse quietly working in a very crowded area, looking calm, quiet and comfortable, despite being hyperflexed. [/B]

I would love to see how this man can litigate people all over the world

Who says he has litigated anyone? He made a comment about ‘send it to my lawyer’, that is the kind of comment I’d expect anyone to make in that situation. Just because he and Anky made comments that people then tore into and analyzed ad nauseum, I’m not all that sure that the comments represent the sum total of everything about it. They were just comments.

commenting on what they feel is on the one hand wrong and others think it’s just nothing.

[B]Not everyone is going to agree with you about everything, you may just have to accept that about some things. I don’t think the people who disagree with you and think the horse was not harmed, are feelingless horse abusers who don’t care if the horse’s tongue gets hurt, I don’t even think most of the people who think the tongue was unharmed are pro rollkur.

They’re just looking at this video and not agreeing with you about what’s happening. Why? Lighting, who knows. But at some point, you may just have to accept that in life, not everyone agrees with you about everything, and that doesn’t make them evil or stupid or wrong or anything else. They just aren’t seeing the video the same way as you. I’m VERY sure none of those who feel that way would be accepting if they thought there was some actual harm to an animal.

We’ve all learned that eye witness accounts are so unreliable, and people so much see differen things when they look at the scene, that eye witness accounts are no longer as weighty in court as they once were. Why should it be any different when people view a video of a horse performing? People come away from these things with very, very different opinions about what is going on. That’s normal.
[/B]

If there’s a case there - then there must be about 2 million that would bring in more money for damages.

[B]Not quite sure what you mean by that. If you mean Kittle may have a case, I agree. Kittel may indeed have some sort of legal case against Epona. That remains to be seen.

They did very quickly after the first video, publish an unedited 10 minutes, that was very smart on their part, and that might help them avoid some actionability, but it might not. That will just have to be seen.

If you mean that some people might sue Kittel, his sponsors or the FEI for allowing abuse or perpetrating abuse, I honestly think if that was possible, it would have been done already.

I am actually puzzled as to why someone hasn’t tried to sue Anky van Grunsven, at least given how much hatred and negative energy and accusations are directed at her personally, I would think someone would have at least tried it, in fact perhaps they have and it wasn’t publicized.

Too, many such disputes don’t go to trial; even if we don’t hear of a court case, there could still be a lot of letters on letterhead flying back and forth. [/B]

[goeslikestink]

[QUOTE=slc2;4474825]
Depends on who you ask, and it hardly matters. Slander covers any temporary form of communication, so whether bb’s and blogs can be slanderous or libelous is something currently being debated(based on sequence, lack of editor-type editing, etc), twitters, phone texts might wind up being slander and blogs and bb’s libel, and as technology changes the law changes.

Either is defamation, and cases have been undertaken regardless of the debate about what term applies to which technology. There are many cases in which negative statements about people can’t be ruled libelous or slanderous, too. The law allows for fair discussion of public issues, opinions and ‘truth’ in many cases(the ‘truth’ of a statement doesn’t always prevent it from being defamatory, despite frequent statements here to the contrary), and slander and libel cases don’t always succeed, and how the court decides whether something is a fair and allowable discussion vs actionable, looks rather complex. I’m sure that internet rollkur discussions could become part of a lawsuit, they certainly have for other subjects. So far, has rollkur stayed out of court? I’m not sure.[/QUOTE]

then you have been to----- by saying this

Egon, you are making things up now, and so are you, shanky. Didn’t your mommies and daddies tell you not to fib when you were little girls?

also becuase you do cut copy and paste whatever your discussing on what ever topic

hence why you contridict yourself so much - as pardon the pun you dont actally do whatever when ever then that is also liable as it dangerous as wornglful information which is third hand or hearsay

one shouldnt preech if they dont understand what slander or liable is or understand copyright rules

[blackhorse6]

:yes:

[QUOTE=slc2;4472049]
I would not sign a petition. I think the death threats against riders are civil and criminal acts, and I think the same of various attempts to slander individuals because they use a widely adopted training technique, but I also don’t see any justification for signing a petition in favor of an individual rider when I am sure the petition will develop a context of its own that i surely would not intend to support. I would prefer to communicate any positive sentiments about the rider both to the rider and directly to the fei, where I can be sure it won’t, like a petition, gain an unwanted context based on who else signs or how they word their interpretation of the petition.[/QUOTE]

Voice of reason…finally!!!:yes::yes:

[slc2]

thanks! your check is in the mail!

[shanky]

@goeslikestink;4476304

shanky. Didn’t your mommies and daddies tell you not to fib when you were little girls?

No. I was raised by wolves.

[GoLightly02]

Chow dogs have blue tongues.

just sayin’.

what slc2 said.

[canyonoak]

AT first, I was alarmed at the idea that the most recent threads on the evils of rollkur, the dreadfulness of tongue problems, etc, had over 24,000 views.

But then, I checked the threads about Steffen’s breeches, of which just ONE thread has like 37,000 + views…and I felt better.

Because it is thus fairly easy to see what is important to much of the BB…and it is not welfare of the horse.

<VBEG>

[egontoast]

Pants R People 2!