Philosophy on Spurs

[bornfreenowexpensive]

[QUOTE=tinah;7132283]
If you as using a spur for forward, you are doing it wrong. Spurs are for sideways, crop is for forward.[/QUOTE]

Interesting…most dressage trainers that I’ve ridden with would not agree. Spur is used to increase activity of hind leg–this is used for forward, collection, and lateral work. I’ve used it jumping at the base of the fence to re-enforce them pushing from behind. It is an aid…to refine the leg aid.

I ride pretty much everything in then but the green green bean…they do not understand a leg aid yet so not yet time to add a spur. I do also ride just about every horse with a dressage whip or crop.

Riders need to understand and have control over their leg…and horses need to have a basic understanding and acceptance of the leg before adding the spur. But it is something I typically want on but may not use often.

[Angelico]

NEED? When do you absolutely need spurs? Not trying to be snaky, but isn’t it a bad thing to be so dependent on a piece of metal strapped to your boot?

[yellowbritches]

[QUOTE=Angelico;7132315]
NEED? When do you absolutely need spurs? Not trying to be snaky, but isn’t it a bad thing to be so dependent on a piece of metal strapped to your boot?[/QUOTE]
It’s not a matter of being dependent. It’s a matter of making the horse sharper. If you only ever nag, nag, nag with your legs, you will not train the horse to be quick and sharp to a subtle leg.

The masters of ALL disciplines have been using spurs for subtlety and clarity of the aids for centuries. There are a lot of gizmos and so called training aids that I can see be skeptical of, but not spurs (or a whip). They are an extension of the leg.

[RugBug]

@pryme_thyme;7132188

I will pick up the dressage whip when needed, I shouldn’t say I am completely averse to all training aids.

IME, picking it up “when it is needed” means you are too late to correct whatever problem you are facing. You MUST have it with you at all times to use immediately when the problems arises.

Now, that she is relaxed and spooking isn’t an issue, the pace has begun to slow despite the absurd amount of leg.

If you are using an “absurd amount of leg” you have some work to do. Train her to know what your leg means and that it means “NOW!” If you are thinking of using a spur because you aren’t getting a good enough response to your leg, you’ve got more homework to do.

[Foxtrot_s]

I know this is a H/J forum, but am reminded of Jack Le Geoff - “Never go to war without a gun” in eventing. (meaning stick & spur). I’d add hat and gloves, too.

It is important to be very mindful not to go to the spur/stick unnecessarily. This is a good thread for me right now, because my horse could do with a bit more attention to the leg these days and the discussion is interesting.

Hate to admit it, but I have those plastic spurs with the little round balls on the end. Don’t even know if you can buy them any more. Call me a wuss.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

[QUOTE=Foxtrot’s;7132482]

Hate to admit it, but I have those plastic spurs with the little round balls on the end. Don’t even know if you can buy them any more. Call me a wuss.[/QUOTE]

Mine are all metal but called impulse spurs. You can still get them. They are great on the TBs to get the response we want but not an over reaction.

[Thoroughbred1201]

[QUOTE=Foxtrot’s;7132482]
I know this is a H/J forum, but am reminded of Jack Le Geoff - “Never go to war without a gun” in eventing. (meaning stick & spur). I’d add hat and gloves, too.

.[/QUOTE]

I remember reading somewhere long ago an article where Anne Kursniski was talking about carrying a stick. She said she always did, as a matter of course, and she had some of the best horses in the world. Didn’t matter. She just always carried one.

[fatappy]

I retired my spurs when I retired my first TB who had no desire to move, until she had no desire to stop… she was a peach.

Now, I have a very thin skinned TB mare who would take no appreciation to spurs. It gives me the shivers to think about putting them on her. I have yet to run into a situation where she has ignored the leg.

I get the old adage ‘better to have and not need then need and not have’ and that you should be able to have them on and never use them. But I guess I fall into the camp that my horse needs to give me a reason to put them on.

[DMK]

[QUOTE=RugBug;7132457]
IME, picking it up “when it is needed” means you are too late to correct whatever problem you are facing. You MUST have it with you at all times to use immediately when the problems arises. [/QUOTE]

You would have to know exactly when it was being picked up to make that call fairly. I tend to toodle over to the dressage whip holder when I am done with my warm up and possibly with my jumping and want to really concentrate on lateral work. Specifically as it relates to my right leg and his desire to lay on it when the request is a bit tough. Now it’s possible that the might have laid on my leg before that, but I’m confident in both his sensitivity to my aids (something I’ve worked very hard to perfect) and my ability to ask very nicely then TELL him with my aids in a manner that he immediately comprehends and complies, that this is a hurdle I expect to be crossed without whip or spur.

So for me, picking it up “when it is needed” is before we start that more difficult lateral work (haunches in, shoulder in, leg yields, few steps of half pass) that I KNOW his ability to execute correctly is going to need just a bit more help, especially if I am going to keep my legs stable.

No doubt I screw up a time or two, but probably not any less than I accidentally do not time a correction w/whip or spur to beneficial effect (we are all human, it happens), so I am not going to sweat that too much.

I definitely understand the argument for going in to battle with your weapons* and that is the path that clearly works for the most riders and the most horses, but I’m also old enough to allow for different roads to Rome.

• how I hate that analogy - how about not starting a work of art without your paint palette and easel?

[salymandar]

I ride in spurs all the time, whether it is a forward-thinking horse or a dull one. Prior to my current horse, I only carried a crop if I was riding a horse that might stop at a jump.

With my current horse, I am always armed with spurs and often either a crop or dressage whip (sometimes two). He is one of the laziest horses I have ever ridden and looks for every excuse to slack off when I ask for increased engagement or lateral work. For about 95% of my ride I can ride without touching him with my whip or spur, but they are there for the times when I need to make an impression. I use a long spur with a rounded metal bubble end on it, as it seems to get a reaction without making him angry (he’s a sensitive plug, after all, and will let everyone know if I have been using my spur unfairly). It seems to work on most horses I ride.

If I didn’t have my spurs, I would be pony kicking him until the cows come home for nothing more than a western pleasure jog (which is his absolute most favorite pace). I’d be naggin’ and he’d be ignorin’

As for the whip … I am more likely to start a ride without it or drop it later in the ride, depending on the horse I am riding. Most of the horses I have ridden are fairly responsive to leg and/or spur.

[Ponyclubrocks]

[QUOTE=tinah;7132283]
If you as using a spur for forward, you are doing it wrong. Spurs are for sideways, crop is for forward.[/QUOTE]

I was trained this way as well; crop is for forward, spurs are for reinforcement of lateral aids.

[rugbygirl]

My philosophy used to be “every ride” but I made my horse a deal when I got pregnant…no spurs if be agreed to not mention my increasing girth…LOL

I feel like spurs are there to refine my leg…hard to explain, but seems to work. Very handy to engage the hind leg with correct timing…I find it more effective than crop behind the leg…but my use of a crop is limited…I can only really use it in my left hand, and mostly carry it to SHOW my horse, which smartens him up. ( My coach is working on getting me to use crop more effectively.)

[RugBug]

DMK: I understand your point and if you are strong enough to still get a decent response without the spur/stick, then you are probably okay not to carry it with you. BUT, if you can’t get the right response and you don’t have them? It’s too late to get them next time. And obviously some issues are more pressing then others.

For instance, if you have a horse that stops…you don’t wait to bring the stick out until after it has stopped. You need it BEFORE the first stop. A plant-your-feet-I-will-not-go-forward balk*? You need it right then, not after. A slow response to a lateral request? Not the end of the world.

I also understand you not wearing spurs all the time because it is easy to rely on them. I can get that way. Lo and behold if I take them off and make myself ride correctly I can usually get the same or better response. Just ask my horse the first day of the Greg Best clinic when I left the spurs at the hotel. He went around just fine.

*I am dealing with this right now. Ms. Mare believes planting her feet or throwing her right shoulder are acceptable responses when she does not want to do something. I don’t carry a stick on her as her former owner indicated it was not necessary. I am improperly equipped to handle the problem without the stick…and have to be creative. Thankfully, Ms. Mare can be cajoled with a few tight circles that going…and doing so in a straight line…are the better response. I HAVE started carrying a crop with me (in my pocket) so if I need it, I can pull it out. The one time I had to, Ms. You-Can’t-Make-Me decided at the sight of it to become Ms. Yes, Ma’am.

[caradino]

I wear spurs every ride on my pony, but I use them in the more “dressage” context of asking for more engagement of the hind end and lift of the abdominals/back. I can get him forward just fine with only my leg and maybe a little whip if he’s feeling lazy, but I often need a little spur to remind him to lift his belly up and PUSH with that butt!

[alternate_universe]

The only horse I use them on full time is a draft X mare who is generally lazy overall and leans against leg around corners, after fences, etc. Spurs allow me to sharply bump her off my leg and maintain straightness and proper bend. I carry a crop for for when she blows off my forward aids.

[jr]

My philosophy is that each horse is different. In general, it’s its better to be prepared then to be have a stop or other issue that could have been immediately corrected or prevented.

Certainly some horses are better without, and many can be trained without them. But I would rather see a horse light off the leg with a small spur, than slow to respond without. Same way I prefer to see a horse with a Pelham light and responsive, than same horse with a snaffle and rider hanging on them… I’m a believer in the right tool for the right horse. Theoretical arguments about never using spurs or certain bits forget the most important variable, the horse.

[EdgeBrook]

[QUOTE=findeight;7132105]
Remember when we “earned our spurs”??? [/QUOTE]

My kids still have to earn their spurs. I ride with at shows on every horse, without at home (with a dressage whip to back up leg when needed)

[hntrjmprpro45]

[QUOTE=bornfreenowexpensive;7132312]
Interesting…most dressage trainers that I’ve ridden with would not agree. Spur is used to increase activity of hind leg–this is used for forward, collection, and lateral work. I’ve used it jumping at the base of the fence to re-enforce them pushing from behind. It is an aid…to refine the leg aid.QUOTE]

This!
To me the spur is merely an extension of the leg. It is a very refined tool whereas the crop is a bit more “blunt”. A stick is a great reinforcement of the leg but is not going to reproduce the same precision as a spur.

Of course nothing works alone, you must have the educated seat and legs for the spurs to be useful.

[ohandthesmokes]

I’m a big believer in be prepared - I ride everything in spurs and carry a crop with me unless I’m told that they don’t like spurs/crop. Its there when I need it and when I don’t I’m educated enough leg-wise to not use it.

[jewll27]

I typically use spurs on horses to hack. I ride toe in on the right side, so it helps me get a better reaction from them without having to fight for it, and the mare I ride is very very difficult to get off my right leg. I use it when I need it and then I stop. I also carry a crop, but thats more for me to help practice proper hand position since I tend to bend my wrists. If the horse Im on is feeling really good, I’ll take off my spurs to jump. I use either the short rubber nubs or the longer neck roller ball spurs.
The horse I ride now is very lazy, esp on the flat. My last horse was not lazy on the flat, but he was big and heavy so my spurs allowed me to get a quicker reaction from him then without them. Thats why I liked the roller balls b/c they were a lot softer on his sensitive TB side, and I got enough reaction that he was using himself the right way but not too much that he trying to run away.

I also believe that all riders should be taught how to use spurs, crops, etc. appropriately. The might not ness. need them, but its a good piece of knowledge to have in your riding knowledge bank.