Physical attributes of an endurance horse?

[gothedistance]

Yes, I’ve heard of that particular mustang, but… she is merely one. You would have to have a much larger percentage of mustangs being successful if you wanted people to accept them as a premier endurance horse. One just doesn’t cut it.

And while an “Indian shuffle” might be fine for racking up miles for someone who is happy to come in last all the time and just wants to do the sport in a casual way, it sure as heck won’t get a horse down the trail at the speed that the real competitors desire. Again, I don’t want to burst your bubble, but…the Arabian horse has consistantly shown that its breed is the premier one suited for the sport at both the highest, and lowest, levels, with a competitive desire to be the best it can be.

And I don’t even have an Arab. I’m just smart enough to recognize how the top competitors get where they get.

If you just want to mosey down the trail, I’m sure a mustang would be fine, just as almost every other breed on the planet would be. If you want to win, or be competitive, you need a horse with the same level of committment, and the body/genetics to make it a reality.

[Bensmom]

Honestly I don’t think it should be allowed to have this much fun.

I feel exactly the same way! :yes: :yes:

I’m glad you are having the same experience that I’ve had – the people are great, the sport is great – it is all wonderful!

Now, I didn’t buy a baby Arabian, but she is part-Shagya/Hungarian Felver and is going to be ideally suited for the sport. Both her granddam and her sire have competed successfully – both grandsires having done eventing/dressage and endurance. :yes:

I’ve found that the time you spend with your horse in this sport is just wonderful and the horsemanship exhibited by most participants exemplary, no matter what breed you choose to ride.

Libby (who thinks this is just more fun that we should be allowed to have too)
www.efduffy.blogspot.com

[prudence]

Needed physical attributes for any horse to be successful at endurance (and remember the AERC motto regarding success, “To finish is to win”} are soundness and soundness. You can do endurance on a pony (I remember a good one finishing the Tevis years ago) or a great big mutt (like Freckles who I did a 100 on in my penny loafers also years ago) as long as the horse is sound of limb, tummy, and lungs. Plusses are things like a horse that pushes rather than drags himself up hills. Mental attributes are a desire to see what’s down the trail and a certain saneness so you don’t get killed at the start. Again these traits can be found in any horse. Finally rider attributes count alot - proper feeding and conditioning and nurturing are needed. Often a really gutsy rider (willing to canter down mountains for instance) is needed for a horse to win as well.

I agree though that if you want to win you should shop for an Arab. Other reasons they are popular - cheap, short, and a certain bias by vets towards them. For example, Arabs on the trot out will commonly be prancy, whereas lots of other breeds won’t. Shouldn’t really be judged the same but the Arab will often get higher marks on impulsion/attitude kinds of things than a cooler breed of horse. In my case, if my 16:3 horse acted like an Arab, I couldn’t use him for endurance at all, being old and decrepit myself.

Yes there is nothing like going to an endurance ride for the weekend. Even the coming home part and the first shower you drag your tired body into is fun. Maybe we are sick…

[rainechyldes]

While I appreciate your defense of appys and mustangs, I think you are overlooking some very important evidence in regards to the level of performance and consistency of the arab breed when it comes to endurance. They dominate the sport for a reason… they are very very good at it. Thats not to say other breeds can’t do well, I tend to ride partbred arabs myself, however if you go look on the aerc website, and the international rides, the overwhelming breed is arab, B.C. and top tens.

I hold appaloosas near and dear to my heart, however-- the ‘new’ appys are nothing more then pretty colored quarterhorse types(imo)–and not the same type of apps that were competing in the tevis back in the day- the appys you are speaking of are the old style appys. and much much more difficult to find.

The best I have atm, is I managed to find an older type appy reg mare, and bred her to an arab, hopefully I get to ride my happy appy/arab and do well. best of both worlds(crosses fingers)

also, mustangs come in a bazillions sizes/shapes/and genetic material, because it’s a feral non controlled breeding program. Yes some mustangs are tough and good distance goers, but not all of them have the capability, they aren’t bred for endurance, they just well… breed!

I’ve seen a few mustangs in the sport, and admired them yes, but overall arabs do rule the roost. I think any breed has the potential to do endurance, given the right mind/conformation and ‘try’ However to be realistic if you wish to market horses to the endurance world, arabs deserve some serious and very well earned consideration.

[Dalriada]

[QUOTE=ponyface;2504448]

Belesemo Echo was a gorgeous young guy, and had a great future in endurance/breeding; tragically, after winning his first 50 miler he was somehow struck by a vehicle in camp after the race. He survived the accident, but I’m not sure if he was even breeding sound afterward…I heard all this secondhand, but it still really gets to me when I think of it.[/QUOTE]

Belesemo Echo had just won his first 50-miler and BC at the same ride. When he was walking up the roadway (on the correct side for a led horse) when a local driver gawking at all the horse rigs on both sides of a quiet country road, missed seeing the caution: horse crossing sign and slammed into Echo and narrowly missed his rider.

I was there and I was AHA Stewarding the ride (also a Regional Championship ride) and while I didn’t see the hit, I heard the impact and was the first one to his rider. By that time Echo, who had been thrown into the ditch with the impact, was on his feet and moving.

I later was the one who led Echo out of the ditch to the area where the treatment vet treated him. I also held him for the entire time he was waiting for treatment and being treated. And finally led him to the barn (back up the roadway) where he spent several days stabilizing before transporting.

Echo was nothing but a gentleman despite the pain, all the activity and fussing.

Echo is breeding sound and has several babies on the ground. He will never compete again but this horse has not been lost to competition.

However when looking for a distance horse you want one with 7.5" or greater bone, lots of long lean muscle mass and a good resting heart rate. You want a horse with a good to excellent stride at the trot without over stretching and a wide chest, a deep heart girth without the “pot-boiler” body type.

You want a horse that is fine going out in company or alone, that is calm and level headed in most situations. AND most importantly you want one that is comfortable to ride.

[Lune_du_Cheval]

@Dalriada;2510614

However when looking for a distance horse you want one with 7.5" or greater bone, lots of long lean muscle mass and a good resting heart rate. You want a horse with a good to excellent stride at the trot without over stretching and a wide chest, a deep heart girth without the “pot-boiler” body type.

Pardon the uneducated question please, 7.5" measured how and where? Thanks, I just don’t know that one.

Very sad for the poor horse, but I am glad to hear he survived.

[islandhorse]

@Lune du Cheval;2510700

Pardon the uneducated question please, 7.5" measured how and where? Thanks, I just don’t know that one.

Measure circumference of the canon bone, just below the knee

[Eventer55]

Dr. MacKay-Smith

I may have missed someone commenting, but if you’re really interested in why some horses do better you should look up any comments by Dr. MacKay-Smith. Some of the things I remember are 1. Horses that are built like a radiator displace heat better. 2. The short typey head of the Arab helps oxygen uptake. 3. Straight legs. . no interference 4. Proper conditioning ie: if you’re going to compete on hard packed dirt roads, condition the horse to these roads and build good bone. 5. Arabs seem to condition faster which brings us back to the fast and slow twitch muscles. These are a few of the ones I remember.

In my own experience my Arabs have been sounder than my Thoroughbreds, don’t know why.

[southernhighlander]

i was having a talk with a friend last night about straight legs in horses and it is suppose to be a hinderce in horses for endurance and that you don’t want one that has straight legs because they won’t be able to handle the going.

[rainechyldes]

[QUOTE=southernhighlander;2511636]
i was having a talk with a friend last night about straight legs in horses and it is suppose to be a hinderce in horses for endurance and that you don’t want one that has straight legs because they won’t be able to handle the going.[/QUOTE]

how are you defining straight legs??

Any horse that has conformational flaws in their legs stand a possibility of breaking down regardless of discipline.

[southernhighlander]

[QUOTE=rainechyldes;2511659]
how are you defining straight legs??

Any horse that has conformational flaws in their legs stand a possibility of breaking down regardless of discipline.[/QUOTE]

straight legs as in straight pasterns.

[Claudius]

endurance horse criteria

Hi, I have sold two horses into the endurance world…one that won the Tevis Cup, and one that completed it.(he was actually a large pony!!) They had some things in common: tough feet, a little maybe on the muley side.(Definitely not open,round,platter type feet) reasonably correct legs…neither strait nor slack pasterns. A good, slightly angled hock (as opposed to a straight hind leg construction) and very well conformed, straight backs (as opposed to a “low” back or other variation that might suggest weakness). Both had proven previously to have great great wind through out a long day of ponying or hunting. And their eyes…these were not “pets”…these were tough looking eyes…competitive eyes. The one that won it years ago was “Silver” and he had been a ponyhorse at the track…I found him on one of my OTTB searches…he was an anglo arab, and actually, asI remember, quite a beautiful horse in his own right. the pony, whose name escapes me, was a cross bred of some sort, very wirey and tough looking. that’s all I remember!!!

[rcloisonne]

[QUOTE=Eventer55;2510813]
In my own experience my Arabs have been sounder than my Thoroughbreds, don’t know why.[/QUOTE]
It’s the feet. TB’s are notorious for having thin soles, weak digital cushions, and negative plane coffin bones. In fact, I’ve only seen one TB in my life I could honestly say had really good feet. They haven’t just been bred for it. :eek:

[rcloisonne]

[QUOTE=southernhighlander;2511729]
straight legs as in straight pasterns.[/QUOTE]
You mean upright pasterns? Not the same as straight legs at all :rolleyes:

[LMH]

@rcloisonne;2511745

It’s the feet. TB’s are notorious for having thin soles, weak digital cushions, and negative plane coffin bones. In fact, I’ve only seen one TB in my life I could honestly say had really good feet. They haven’t just been bred for it. :eek:

Come to my farm-all are TBs or part TB, all are bare…all have gorgeous feet.

No negative coffin bone plane, thick soles, etc etc

[southernhighlander]

[QUOTE=rcloisonne;2511745]
It’s the feet. TB’s are notorious for having thin soles, weak digital cushions, and negative plane coffin bones. In fact, I’ve only seen one TB in my life I could honestly say had really good feet. They haven’t just been bred for it. :eek:[/QUOTE]

also come to new zealand and have a look at all the tb’s in this country most of them when finished racing go barefoot and can handle how terrain better than some arabs and yet how tb’s go out on multi day treks over rocks like the tevis cup course.and also has i remember it endurance was a army thing and the army turned the arab away because it couldn’t handle the distance and the fighting and carrying the weight that they had to and then fight.history of the us army is that they sent their soldiers to fight on mustangs during the first world war here in new zealand we sent the tb’s and farm hacks which were many tb’s same in aussie they sent tb’s walers and brumbies.why you ask because they could handle not going with food and water for a few days then fight for water and feed.

http://203.147.158.98/military/msa.htm

here is the link on what tb’s walers and brumbies and farm hacks did no arab horses were there at all.why because the arab was seen as being weak.

[rcloisonne]

[QUOTE=LMH;2511773]
Come to my farm-all are TBs or part TB, all are bare…all have gorgeous feet.:D[/QUOTE]

Good on ya, LMH! Don’t know where you are but perhaps you could ship some of them to the Northeast for breeding? :lol:

[Auventera_Two]

@rcloisonne;2512513

Good on ya, LMH! Don’t know where you are but perhaps you could ship some of them to the Northeast for breeding? :lol:

It has to do with properly developing the structures of the feet, and not just nailing on a shoe to compensate for thin flat soles and bad walls. My TB/QH used to be lame on anything but soft grass, she had to be shod on all 4s to do distance riding. She now does distance riding barefoot with boots being used only on ocassions where the footing is espeically horrible, or her feet are soft due to rains.

[rainechyldes]

southerhighlander—

not to be prickly, but you do realize…

Aussie Walers for one-- their bloodlines were -dominated- by arabian bloodlines in the 1780’s . which is when the breed was developed.
TBs, -well we all know that one,.
Mustangs- many were derived from barb/arab typed stock.

If you are going to spout off how much you think the arab breed sucks in comparision to other breeds, that doesn’t bother me one bit—but get your research right:)

The arabian breed is and has been used for countless years to refine and help improve breeds. To me that says something. I have a few arabs and part arabs yes, however I don’t necessarily think they are the best at all disciplines, but you can’t knock the influence they’ve had worldwide on many horse breeds. And however you want to put it, you can’t deny they are hands down the best for endurance. the facts you keep trotting out aren’t holding up I’m afraid becaue they are incorrect.

[LMH]

@rcloisonne;2512513

Good on ya, LMH! Don’t know where you are but perhaps you could ship some of them to the Northeast for breeding? :lol:

Well…that might bit a WEE bit tough since the equipment is missing on all of them…but I bet they wouldn’t mind giving it the old college try!:eek::lol:

All in the name of feet of course!