I can speak from a sample size of one… my Border Terrier who does scent work. He is very much a nose close to the ground searching for scent (although scent work has no moving odor source).
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I never once said the “honeymoon phase” doesn’t exist. This dog is from a part of the country where the likely hood of her ending up on a chain in someone’s backyard or living in a pound the rest of her life is great. If my friend was doing anything wrong, maybe he should have been better coached by the vet who saw her or the shelter manager who he was in contact with all 4 days. He is doing everything to try to keep her safe now…if you have a list of people that could do better for this dog, please send them my way. Seriously. There aren’t a lot of resources in this area for older pit bulls.
Cats will be kept safe…trainers are already being contacted. Raised gate is a good idea.
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The detail that the dog reacted to the jogger, but then turned on the cat, is interesting.
I think with dogs there is a concept of displaced aggression–the dog reacted to the jogger, probably with a whole bunch of adrenaline and drive–and since the dog couldn’t get to the jogger, she turned on the first viable target she came upon.
The worry is that someday, a human (especially a child) could become the nearest viable target.
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A friend had a pit bull cross rescue that she kept on a short leash. One day they were in the hay storage next to the indoor arena. A horse was playing loose in the indoor arena. The dog bolted, pulled loose, and ran outside to the paddocks and attacked the first horse he saw (not hers) . Horse fought back, but had ugly though not life threatening wounds to her belly.
The dog was euthanized right then by the emergency vet who came out to tend to the horse, at the owners request. Horse recovered fine.
That is an example of displaced aggression.
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I’m not sure why you’re annoyed with my response.
You said
“I get that, but there were no signs she was stressed about anything. We were really quite amazed at how well she had settled in and picked up on the routine. She had a bed where she could get away from everything and only occasionally used it.”
This is practically the definition of “honeymoon period.” This article says it’s often seen at the 3 week mark, but others say 1-3 weeks:
https://www.friendsofthedog.co.za/honeymoon-period.html
Our own experience of working with a shelter dog is that when it first comes to the new home there is what we refer to as the ‘twilight period or honeymoon period’. This is a time period of approximately 3 weeks wherein the dog seems to settle well, is reasonably well behaved and the behaviours that possibly caused it ending up in a shelter seem to either be put ‘on hold’ or have disappeared altogether. So often after the 3 week period is up, these dogs slowly and surely start to exhibit the unacceptable behaviours that ended them in the shelter in the first place, and this is when trouble can start occurring.
Yes, the shelter should tell people that they should not assume that what they see the first week is going to stay that way. But that information is readily available to anyone that wants to look.
As for the sad story about the plight of pit bulls in shelters - it’s the same everywhere. The best thing anyone can do for these unfortunate dogs is get it right from the start. Clearly that didn’t happen for this dog the first time around - and the 2nd time isn’t going great so far. If he wants to keep the dog, I’d do a hard reboot – dog would be home and yard only, leashed outside always, limited space inside, and every moment is a training moment. Teach her name, teach her to give attention, and teach to sit. Anticipate things that will trigger excitement - cats, visitors, children, bicycles, etc - and get her attention and make her sit (or some other command) and then praise for the attention. And correct (gently, but firmly) when her attention goes toward those triggers.
I’d still be in contact with a trainer; particularly because there are fear issues and animal issues (cats, but possibly small dogs as well). And with a breed like this - the consequences are too great to ignore. If she were a badly behaved Yorkie, it would be a different story.
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Dogs coming from a shelter situation need decompression time. While it is great she has been good at his work, it is really too soon for her to be out and about as much as she has been. Most experts say 4-6 weeks of decompression time. That does not mean she cannot go anywhere, but short bonding type of activities. While he thinks the cats are safe, unless the dog as crated when it is at home, they really are not. One slip up and they maybe at the end of an unfortunate situation.
I have a rescue lab with an EXTREMELY high prey drive. I cannot even have barn cats. He will jump fences and looses some of his recall when he is in a high prey drive mindset. I choose not to have any small animals so nothing happens. This dog may not be right for your friends current situation.
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Most any breed dog I have had will rip a cat to pieces( given a chance) if it doesn’t belong to us.Yet were never aggressive towards any farm animals or house cats/ barn we had or acquired later once we made them aware they belonged.
Sounds like the dog is starting to feel like the husband is " hers" and any person or other animal is an unwanted intruder. It is so much harder with a grown dog with an unknown background.
We had a pitbull stray come to us. I only fed the dog (far away from my house) while I tried to find the owners. He was a young male and seemed to be nice at first. Then about 5 days later, as I was doing my chores he started growling at my dogs when they got close to me and at my goats who came to the fence.
My husband took care of him immediately. He would have killed my dogs or goats given half the chance, especially as time went on .Not all pitbulls are aggressive, but when they are I won’t let anyone or animal be at risk.
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His first priority wrt safety should be to the pets he already had, the cats.
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Yes. And, frankly, his fellow employees, if the dog is sleeping at their feet and one of them gets up and runs to the toilet or something.
OP, nobody is trying to be mean to your friend. But those of us who have experience with shelter dogs can and have told you that you really have to move slowly are carefully with these dogs. You simply gave no idea what they previously experienced and what might set them off. So you have to make sure you catch anything concerning before someone gets hurt, and that means not putting them in situations in which they can get into trouble before you understand their behaviors better.
My friend’s brother got bit by a GSD at a kid’s party. The owner of the dog had gotten it from the shelter a few days before. Why anyone would think it would be a good idea to bring a recent shelter dog (or any dog, frankly) to a kid’s party is beyond me, but they ended up having to put the dog down. Not the dog’s fault. They were all just lucky it bit an adult on the thigh and not a kid’s face.
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I would definitely separate the dog from the cat. I have a breed known for being not good with cats, and I’ve heard a lot of stories of the dog being ok with cats and then all of the sudden one day … going after the cat with bad results. If I get into a really low prey drive dog someday, I’d consider an indoor cat. I know some people may be able to train that out of a puppy, but in a breed with prey drive I can say that sometimes people think they have and it doesn’t turn out that way one day when the dog sees the cat running.
I’m interested in the wanting to eat the jogger. My dog has a high prey drive, especially with cars. Obviously I’ve worked a lot on this because it’s so dangerous. She will lunge and get excited. I would suspect that she would like to nip a car, but I’ve never seen her go full Cujo even at her worst. It’s more of a deal where she just wants to chase them.
Dogs do go through a honeymoon period, but my hunch is that she just hadn’t seen someone run in his presence before. The chase thing is just instinct. I don’t think they suppress it like they might good guarding when somewhere new, for example.
Personally I would think that a home without cats and with someone that didn’t really want to take the dog to work would be a lower hill to climb. My guess is that someone could redirect the dog, but it would have to be maintained.
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Yikes!! That is lot for the dog to deal with.
If he decides to keep the dog, please share the 2 week shutdown protocol with him.
I’d also look into a balanced trainer with a background in behavioral issues.
It definitely sounds like the jogger set the dog off & since she couldn’t get to the main object (jogger) she redirected onto the cat.
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Indeed
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With many dogs/breeds one of the most important things is to find out how much exercise they need to be happy and relaxed without being overstimulated. A lot of incidents are related to dogs that are not balanced because of too much or not enough stimulation/exercise.
I’m tired of reading dogs were put down only because owners didn’t do their job properly: helping the dog to adapt and taking responsibility.
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While I agree with you that lack of exercise is the root of many problems with dogs, in my experience there are some deeply ingrained behaviors–such as excessive prey drive or herding behavior–that persist regardless of whether the dog has an otherwise busy and stimulating life.
We own border collies. We have one in particular who NEEDS to herd, like a compulsion. It doesn’t matter if she spent the morning playing fetch and going for walks… if she sees my older dog moseying along in the yard (looking a bit like a sheep, lol), she will go into full herding mode and it is very hard to call her off. (Luckily she doesn’t want to harm him in any way… it’s just all about circling him and giving him the eye, and thankfully he is quite indifferent to it). Same thing with the cat. She has never been trained for herding; it is just a throwback instinct that is a true compulsion for her.
I only raise this example to show that dogs can have compulsive, difficult-to-manage behaviors that will not be eliminated simply by upping their exercise.
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Thanks for the help everyone! After consulting with two trainers and a rescue, we ended up taking her back to the shelter. They will keep her and try to get her into a breed specific rescue. The top priority was always the cats and there was just no way to ensure their safety with this particular dog.
If anyone knows of a rescue that has a spot open for a really sweet dog, please let me know. I’d be willing to transport within 500 miles of KY.
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Agreed. Exercise is necessary for almost all breeds, but essential for some. And while it doesn’t eliminate instincts that breeders have been selecting for over (in some cases) hundreds of years…it can help make those dogs more manageable as pets. Especially since many dogs were not originally bred to be “pets.”
The problem with shelter dogs - is that they often weren’t bred intentionally for anything. Possibly for generations. So, there was no deliberate effort to control instincts, temperament, size, health, etc. It’s a gamble. Luckily most dogs can become a good pet for someone - but it’s hard to know what that looks like until you get them home.
If you deliberately select a border collie, or hunting dog - well, what do you expect? My dog found a baby robin this morning on the ground. He pointed it, and then picked it up. Luckily for the bird, he’s the one that doesn’t kill immediately, so I was able to get it away from him and put it back. Can’t say the same for the nest of baby rabbits they found last week. But…what do I expect? They are hunting dogs.
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I’m sorry it didn’t work out but it’s probably for the best. I know there are some bully rescues in my area but I’m in NY. (One is called Out of the Pits). I don’t know if they will help with out of state dogs but it can’t hurt to send them a message and ask and/or see if they know of another organization that can help. http://outofthepits.org/
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I totally agree with this and it is the reason we had to return her. I have BCs too; I fostered them for a period of time and ran a household with dogs, cats, and BCs and felt I could keep them all safe and sane. This dog was different; there was no way she could live safely in the house with the cats. Especially since the 20 year old cat has spent his life with a very cat friendly dog and has no clue that dogs can be aggressive.
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Thanks! Will definitely contact them. Hopefully with enough networking we can get her out of the shelter.
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Right! My dog just gets fitter with more exercise. Sure she needs a certain level of exercise to not annoy me to death with her Tigger impersonations, but exercise isn’t changing the drive she was bred to possess.
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