Pit Bulls

[S1969]

@AltersAreUs

All the great experiences in the world won’t completely override breeding & instinct. Pretending you can just love any dog into being a perfect pet for any home doesn’t help anyone.

Agreed. And by “breeding” - it’s not that the Am Staff or similar breeds are inherently aggressive - they are not. But unless the “breeder” (and I use that term lightly) is breeding for the correct temperament, you can’t predict what you will get. Some bad breeders deliberately breed for bad temperaments, as well, just like they breed for over/under-sized dogs, incorrect colors, etc.

The biggest problem(s) with “pit bulls” (catch-all for bully mixes) is the people who own and either indiscriminately breed or allow them to just reproduce combined with the power of the breed. As I said before - if these were poorly bred Shih Tzus or Boston Terriers - no one would be mauled to death.

[Horsegirl_s_Mom]

@lenapesadie

I do think it’s ridiculous to criticize folks for wanting another type of dog. Or gasp a puppy with a known health history and pedigree

I so agree with this. I get tired of people being criticized for not adopting a rescue dog. In the dog-world big picture, isn’t it actually a good thing to support responsible breeders who select for conformation and temperament and check for genetic diseases? And many people want a dog that is purpose-bred for various dog sports.

Isn’t this a bit like criticizing everyone who events a warmblood, saying they should have adopted a mustang?

[lenapesadie]

I mean I think it’s sensible for folks looking for a pet dog to be interested in something small with low exercise reqs but they get shamed into adopting a pit and then they get shamed again when said pit isn’t a good fit for working parents in a wee garden home with a pack of small kids and they send it back to the shelter.

Of course people select poorly suited purpose bred dogs all the time too.

But I’m kinda sick of some of the adopt don’t shop rhetoric.

[Scribbler]

It’s also true that much of the “get a Pitbull” rhetoric does not say: find a reputable breeder who is not living in a double wide and cooking meth, and is breeding for pets, not illegal dog fights.

The “get a Pitbull” rhetoric is part of larger rescue discourse. They are only saying get a Pitbull that has been surrendered, often enough because it has started to show problem behavior.

And FYI there certainly are folks out there that will say you should be getting a mustang, a grade horse from auction, or what they call “wildies” in Canada, feral horses off First Nations land that are rounded up and sold off periodically as yearlings. At least the BMI has some rules about the basic facilities to take home an unbroke mustang.

[shiloh]

@AltersAreUs

we just acknowledge the two facts of “pitties are not appropriate for every home” and “some pitties are bad”.

And that is true. Thank you for saying that. I’m just irritated at the tarring every pit bull with the same brush crap.

[Casey09]

@shiloh

And that is true. Thank you for saying that. I’m just irritated at the tarring every pit bull with the same brush crap.

I don’t think it’s “pit bulls,” personally. I don’t even think it’s necessarily poorly bred dogs. I think it’s just large, strong, high drive dogs in homes meant for a totally different animal. There are just a lot of young pit bulls in shelters. If shelters were full of Malinois, we’d be talking about them. There are definitely individual dogs that are not stable, but I think more commonly the issue is dogs that are just in homes that aren’t appropriate for that dog. There isn’t just one “good temperament” - but there are people and dogs that just aren’t a good fit.

[S1969]

@Casey09

There are just a lot of young pit bulls in shelters. If shelters were full of Malinois, we’d be talking about them. There are definitely individual dogs that are not stable, but I think more commonly the issue is dogs that are just in homes that aren’t appropriate for that dog.

Well…partly.

A lot of people don’t want a pit bull because of the bad press about the few, very dangerous ones that have mauled and killed people.

Put me in that category. Especially if it was when my kids were younger. No way, even though I know that the vast majority of the ones in the shelter will not suddenly snap and kill my family. Not worth the risk for me.

The other reason is that stupid people are not breeding Malinois. They just aren’t.

Rottweilers, Cane Corso, Pit Bulls and Mastiffs…and/or poorly bred crosses of these breeds…yes, unfortunately they are the macho sidekick breed for a demographic of people, many of whom do not have the capacity to own a dog, much less breed one.

It sounds mean but it’s true.

[AltersAreUs]

@Casey09

I think it’s just large, strong, high drive dogs in homes meant for a totally different animal. There are just a lot of young pit bulls in shelters. If shelters were full of Malinois, we’d be talking about them

Oh, it IS becoming Malinois in some parts of the country. Thanks to all the movies featuring them, they’ve exploded with the “manly man” backyard breeders who think they’re the next John Wick. What used to be half a dozen dogs in foster, total, in the country is now half a dozen a week pouring out of Texas alone.

Luckily, we have a very active rescue network set up that IS willing to make the hard call on a dog that’s deemed un-adoptable due to temperament problems. The dogs get a chance but if multiple knowledgeable fosters & evaluators all come back with “going to have to be strictly managed 24/7”, well, that dog isn’t getting the chance to try being a pet. The risk of damage or death is too damn high.

[AltersAreUs]

@S1969

The other reason is that stupid people are not breeding Malinois. They just aren’t.

Yes the frick they are. Not in the sheer numbers as pitties but backyard mal breeding EXPLODED thanks to John Wick and the military movies. We used to only see a few coming through every year, now we’re desperate for fosters and evaluators. Our rescues are hard pressed to keep up but we also know, when mals go bad, they go deadly bad. There is none of this “love & training will fix it anything” mentality in our rescues. We know mentally unstable mals are a timebomb and we do our best to keep them out of the hands of people who won’t be able to manage it.

[S1969]

@AltersAreUs

We used to only see a few coming through every year, now we’re desperate for fosters and evaluators

Ok well putting this in perspective…there are bad backyard breeders in every breed and in the stupid designer breeds.

But in comparison to every municipal shelter, Mals are not a common breed. “Shepherd Mix” is common in many areas. In my area it would surprise me.to see anything resembling a Mal or GSD in a shelter.

We have pages of this:

[moonlitoaksranch]

That’s true, too. Mustangs are not for everyone. A beginner should look for a gentle horse. A trained Mustang can be for anyone, but not straight off the range to a newbie. There are feral dogs. I think that’s a better comparison. Some dogs off the street are not easy to bring into your home. You have a much better chance of taming a feral dog than a feral cat, though.

[moonlitoaksranch]

Breeding does make a difference. We paid a lot for our GSD and he came from a good breeder known for producing good temperaments (our second dog from this breeder, in fact). They have maybe one litter per year and the pups are spoken for before they’re born. I would NOT get a GSD from a pound with kids at home. God bless our president for rescuing a GSD from the shelter. He’s got more guts than I have (and more training resources, lol).

I really enjoy working with herding dogs. Our GSD works cattle and sheep, just like our last one did. I need a responsive dog with enough drive but enough restraint. That requires good breeding.

Our other dog is a spaniel. We got her from a friend that wanted to breed her, but found a hernia and decided the risk was too high for her to pass that on. We gave her a ‘pet home’ and spayed her.

My brother adores Rotties. He and my SIL have always had a female Rottie (they prefer the trainability of the females) and they, too, buy from reputable breeders. None of us have ever been interested in owning a pit or bully type. There are just too many issues. However, if I really liked them, I would do some serious research and find a well-bred one with a good temperament, just like I did when looking for a GSD. I sure as he** wouldn’t get one willy nilly because some shelter worker guilted me into it. What is the saying? With great power comes great responsibility? Yeah, that applies to buying a powerful dog, whether a GSD, Rottie, or a bully breed.

[moonlitoaksranch]

Same here. Whenever a non-bully comes in, they are usually sold off to rescues that transport them North to sell at very high prices.

[Bicoastal]

Hey OP, how is the search going? How about we help your friend find a good breeder? He has already experienced an unsafe adoption and now the pettiness of rescue processes.

It is past time we stop the "Adopt Don't Shop" slogan that got stuck on loop for years and is kind of ruining or eliminating the middle tier of the dog population.

[AltersAreUs]

@moonlitoaksranch

Same here. Whenever a non-bully comes in, they are usually sold off to rescues that transport them North to sell at very high prices.

It’s a shame that the rescues you deal with are doing the price jacking thing. The ones I work with are reasonable but they do snap up anything that looks vaguely in their wheel house (I mostly deal with belgian shepherd rescues).

[caryledee]

Well I appreciate that and would have taken you up on it but he has found a great dog! She is a 6 month old lab mix who is pretty calm for such a young dog. She is really submissive with the cats and with my older dog when they met.

[Horsegirl_s_Mom]

She is darling!

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

She looks very dapper, like she’s wearing a tuxedo!

[moonlitoaksranch]

It used to be lots of Labs and Goldens and their crosses in shelters. You could get a really good mostly grown pup that just needed a little time to grow up. Two year old Lab crosses were abundant. GSD Lab crosses were common as well. Great dogs even though they would often have hip dysplasia as they got older from poorly bred parents. You’d be hard pressed to find something as silly and sweet as those crosses in to days shelters. Breed rescues snatch up everything, even crosses now.

[Bombproof]

My dog is a purebred American Pitbull Terrier. Several years ago I was dating a woman who wanted a pit from a breeder she knew who (she said) bred dogs which were intelligent and good-natured. Fortunately, she was right. She knew a lot more than I did about dogs in general and pitbulls specifically. Eventually she and I parted ways but the dog stayed with me. (I sometimes tell people I got rid of the b*tch and kept the dog.) He’s been remarkably easy to train and excellent around people. He rarely conflicts with another dog but I watch him closely because I know that regardless of which dog starts it, the pit will be blamed.

I don’t know a lot about dogs but I do know myself and I know I don’t have the experience or the inclination to retrain a problem dog. I know from a lifetime around horses that bloodlines matter and even though each horse is an individual, you can make some generalizations about temperament and behavior based upon their ancestry. It stands to reason that the same holds true for dogs. When my dog passes on, my next dog will be from a well-researched breeder. I understand the rationale behind the push to adopt rather than purchase, but I don’t see it as a good option for me. The handful of dogs I’ll own over my lifetime won’t make a dent on the overpopulation but it definitely does matter that I get a dog which is even-tempered and easy to train. My best chance of insuring that is to get a dog of known provenance.

I’m sure I’m not the only person who has been “guilted” for buying a purebred dog but the reality is that I don’t have the skills or the desire to go through several rescue dogs to find one that fits my needs. For some of us it’s go to a breeder or don’t have a dog.