[QUOTE=evntr5218;7267390]
popcorn and now wine![/QUOTE]
Yes, I agree. The OP is becoming crazier by the minute.
[QUOTE=Edgewood;7267409]
Yes, I agree. The OP is becoming crazier by the minute.[/QUOTE]
Gives a new definition to unglued, doesn’t it?
I think bullies have met their match. I don’t back down just because you think you are soooo much better. Like I said, see you in the ring. It settles all. Ultimately it is performance not bloodline that validates a horse. That settles it.
It has been pointed out numerous times that your horse is limited solely by his talent and the ability and finances of his connections. There are no rules that hold him back to going to the Olympics or Grand Prix at DAD etc, so I don’t really understand what you are mad about. Go out there and perform.
[QUOTE=fire_911medic;7267388]
Evidently it is you that is brain damaged. As I stated, he showed in unrated local stuff coming back. What part of that did you not understand. Scores are scores. A lot of horses are schooling more at home. Doesn’t mean they show it when they aren’t confirmed. I won’t go there unless I think we can be competitive at that level.
I do not have to justify myself nor my horses to you. My stallion did not event nor will he ever. I do not care for the direction the sport has gone. His dam did 15 years ago. I am thrilled aqha is recognizing dressage now. Did the year she retired sadly.
My stallion is lovely and I don’t need the faceless internet to validate that for me. I will see you in the ring this spring. If you are brave enough.[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately, if you are going to make grandiose claims about your stallion, you DO have to justify yourself. No one attacked you initially; you came on this forum complaining about the lack of recognition of your unorthodox-breed stallion who, according to you, has the ability to compete with the best of his dressage-bred counterparts. Yet, you have not provided results to back up this statement. The fact that he is “schooling” higher at home is, frankly, meaningless in the context of the claims you have made. Lots of horses “school” high level movements but don’t make it past Second Level. Lots of event horses “school” Prelim level questions and never event past Pretraining.
You want to whine that your stallion is not respected based on his own merit? Fine. But you’d better produce the goods to demonstrate that he is worthy of this entitlement if you have any interest in earning the respect of breeders on this board (which you clearly do, or you would not have posted here in the first place).
[QUOTE=fire_911medic;7267443]
I think bullies have met their match. I don’t back down just because you think you are soooo better. Like I said, see you in the ring. It settles all. Ultimately it is performance not bloodline that validates a horse. That settles it.[/QUOTE]
Just had my second glass of wine. OP sure showed me lol.
Please forgive me if I take these claims with a grain of salt since Kita Kopper is also not found in the USEF, USDF or USEA databases.
As of yet, your stallion is also unproven.
Will certainly be watching for him when he starts showing in the recognized shows. Once he has an actual performance record you may find his reception as a breeding stallion a little warmer, but for now, you’re offering people an unorthodox breed with no show record. The second thing would be a bigger issue than the first for me.
The made did not show under the name kita kopper because frankly I despised the name. No rules stating a horse must show under that name. So your ignorance prevails.again. and as I said originally in was asking why there wasn’t an opportunity within inspections say in the performance registries such as phr to get your stallion or mare critiqued on sport horse suitability and see what you are doing right or wrong as a breeder from an outside opinion. Also to get an unbiased insight on the strengths and weaknesses of your horse. And why if the sport is recognized within their breed are there no breed specific classes offered to help grow the sport within that breed.
I believe you have deviated so far from the original question into personal attacks as others have noticed besides me that frankly I am disgusted with the breeding forum. I came here asking for reasoning and why the sport has not encouraged more for a breed that is utilized extensively at lower levels especially and emerging as a breed within the sport. AQHA seems to see the versatility and wondered why the USDF isn’t offering more to them. Or at least working with AQHA to do so.
I am in agreement that a stallion should have a show record. Kind of expected in my book but there again there are a lot of stallions out there with little to no record that are getting mares. Explain that one to me. They stand on the basis of I’m a warmblood with so and so as my daddy.
I don’t want to breed to warmbloods. I don’t care for them in general and that is my right as much as yours to like nothing but. I would like to promote the breed within the sport instead of seeing it treated as the ugly step child when there are horses out there winning !
I’m sure if someone from the Spanish riding school posted here regarding their stallions you would make fun of them as well because their stallions only “trained” and didn’t get scored at a show. However I believe any of those riders could put us to shame and their horses are the epitome of dressage. They are able to get moves above and beyond what any of us ask and they don’t rush their horses. Many still perform at 20 and some older. Sorry but I don’t think your Hanoverians or any other of the like can compare. Dressage is training and they exemplify that. If I wanted a truly brilliant dressage horse I would look to those lines as they have obviously mastered the true art of classical dressage.
[QUOTE=fire_911medic;7267690]
as I said originally in was asking why there wasn’t an opportunity within inspections say in the performance registries such as phr to get your stallion or mare critiqued on sport horse suitability and see what you are doing right or wrong as a breeder from an outside opinion.[/QUOTE]
Didn’t really want to step into this…but honestly, I don’t find inspections or a preformance classe terribly helpful from this perspective anyway…and while a little bit helpful in marketing…as someone who buys the service of stallions for my mares…it actually has very very little influence in my own decisions.
IMO, what is FAR more helpful is having a few good mentors and advisors. People whose opinions you value and who are honest with you and who can get to know your stallion (and his offspring) on a more in depth level…and not just looking at them for 10 minutes on one day. Another more experienced Breeder, a trainer or coach in the performance areas you are marketing…those people are often going to give you much better input.
Then what you boy produces…and how well you market him, will influence opinion about him the most. Inspections and those breed classes…even the major ones really mostly just beauty shows and NOT always the best judgment of a sport horse or stallion.
An appendix can be a very versatile animal…more than even a lot of WBs. And here in the US…with marketing to the Quarter horse world as well as the hunter and ammy markets…honestly, probably a MUCH better investment than a WB stallion. Play to your boys strengths…get him a performance record and up your marketing (you need some pictures and videos in you ads otherwise unless people actually already know your boy, you will not get very far). And I personally would show him both in open shows…but also really aim for the QH shows. Doing well at the QH Worlds or some of the shows will mean more than doing well at DAD…but if you can do well at both…even better!
If he can produce nice athletes that are registerable with the AQHA…he should have a pretty good market. And a market NOT available to WBs. Good luck!
So would I be interested in crossing into the western dressage realm ? You bet. I doubt they will be lining up to breed to your warmbloods.
If he can produce nice athletes that are registerable with the AQHA…he should have a pretty good market. And a market NOT available to WBs. Good luck!
So, is now an appropriate time to pause and let all the WB breeders mourn the loss of breedings to their inferior stallions by the Western Dressage Market?
[QUOTE=Dressagelvr;7267825]
So, is now an appropriate time to pause and let all the WB breeders mourn the loss of breedings to their inferior stallions by the Western Dressage Market?[/QUOTE]
Actually…in the US…that will be a pretty damn big market. There are FAR more western riders in this country than english. This board does lean to what is a smaller market here in the US.
[QUOTE=Dressagelvr;7267825]
So, is now an appropriate time to pause and let all the WB breeders mourn the loss of breedings to their inferior stallions by the Western Dressage Market?[/QUOTE]
Wow…really. How do you even know this stallion is inferior? Inferior to what? That is a really snide comment that would piss me off…
Honestly this board DOES slant to one very small market here in the US. There is a MUCH bigger world with the AQHA. MUCH. So what if they are not Olympic levels (who really likes dealing with the FEI anyway…I sure as hell don’t)…have you looked at the stud fees they can charge in that world. Is more like the racing world…and WB stud fees are CHEAP.
They go to competitions and win TRUCKS and money…not just ribbons. From a pure business perspective…that is a FAR better market to be in.
Reread it, she called the WBs inferior.
[QUOTE=fire_911medic;7267690]
The made did not show under the name kita kopper because frankly I despised the name. No rules stating a horse must show under that name. So your ignorance prevails.again. and as I said originally in was asking why there wasn’t an opportunity within inspections say in the performance registries such as phr to get your stallion or mare critiqued on sport horse suitability and see what you are doing right or wrong as a breeder from an outside opinion. Also to get an unbiased insight on the strengths and weaknesses of your horse. And why if the sport is recognized within their breed are there no breed specific classes offered to help grow the sport within that breed.
I believe you have deviated so far from the original question into personal attacks as others have noticed besides me that frankly I am disgusted with the breeding forum. I came here asking for reasoning and why the sport has not encouraged more for a breed that is utilized extensively at lower levels especially and emerging as a breed within the sport. AQHA seems to see the versatility and wondered why the USDF isn’t offering more to them. Or at least working with AQHA to do so.
I am in agreement that a stallion should have a show record. Kind of expected in my book but there again there are a lot of stallions out there with little to no record that are getting mares. Explain that one to me. They stand on the basis of I’m a warmblood with so and so as my daddy.
I don’t want to breed to warmbloods. I don’t care for them in general and that is my right as much as yours to like nothing but. I would like to promote the breed within the sport instead of seeing it treated as the ugly step child when there are horses out there winning !
I’m sure if someone from the Spanish riding school posted here regarding their stallions you would make fun of them as well because their stallions only “trained” and didn’t get scored at a show. However I believe any of those riders could put us to shame and their horses are the epitome of dressage. They are able to get moves above and beyond what any of us ask and they don’t rush their horses. Many still perform at 20 and some older. Sorry but I don’t think your Hanoverians or any other of the like can compare. Dressage is training and they exemplify that. If I wanted a truly brilliant dressage horse I would look to those lines as they have obviously mastered the true art of classical dressage.[/QUOTE]
I’m sorry you feel this way. You got some good information regarding why it isn’t an “open” sporthorse registry/assessment.
“And why if the sport is recognized within their breed are there no breed specific classes offered to help grow the sport within that breed.”
I think this is a question better directed at the AQHA or breed shows. Maybe I am reading it incorrectly.
Bashing other breeds is not professional, directed at everyone. Threads like this will pop up when a farm name or horse is associated with it courtesy of Google. Not the persona I would want to present as a professional breeder, or human being- but that’s beside the point. I don’t see as anyone was QH bashing. My friend has a lovely QH, she shows hunter. Idle chit chat ring side, someone usually asks his breeding/what he is. We laugh, he’s a QH who does pretty well in the hunters. No offense meant/none taken.
The last paragraph is just inaccurate, to me. I know plenty of Hanovarians and the type (WB in general?) who compete into their 20s. People can come out of the woodwork listing their old schoolmasters who are competing.
The questions were genuine, and I believe you received some genuine feedback, meant to be helpful. If you put your hackles up and begin bashing other breeders/breeds, people are going to be defensive.
[QUOTE=Laurierace;7267840]
Reread it, she called the WBs inferior.[/QUOTE]
no doubt…they way she was getting attacked. Really this board DOES come across as snobby sometimes. And even if she did say that…was the snide comment really needed?
She clearly was venting in the first post…and yet some people went out of the their way to be more condescending rather than helpful–which causes some of the helpful posts to get lost in the mix. Unfortunately…that happens on here. And clearly this OP let it get under his/her skin.
No, Dressagelvr called WBs inferior, not the OP. I assume that was tongue in cheek but was not an attack of the OP’s horse.
[QUOTE=bornfreenowexpensive;7267863]
no doubt…they way she was getting attacked. Really this board DOES come across as snobby sometimes. And even if she did say that…was the snide comment really needed?
She clearly was venting in the first post…and yet some people went out of the their way to be more condescending rather than helpful–which causes some of the helpful posts to get lost in the mix. Unfortunately…that happens on here. And clearly this OP let it get under his/her skin.[/QUOTE]
Actually this person came on this board with the idea that all Wb people are snotty and looking for a fight. The person has gone to several threads and made an issue of the non-wb plight. If anything the prejudice was on his/her side. This person was looking for a fight and has created one. As far as I am concerned she/he is trolling. Even when people were nice, the person ignored it and carried on with how poorly she/he was treated. Go back and read the threads. And honestly you were so offended when you thought someone called her horse inferior but you didn’t even have the courtesy to apologize when you found out she/he was the one being rude. Really? I own a draft and a Qh as well as warmbloods, they are all good horses for different reasons. Lots of people here have different breeds of horses here. Your tilting at windmills.
and the OP has been less then sincere about the whole subject
Yep ! I loved when my mare got the plus at a huge show in a PSG class of over 30 web. Barely 15 hands and gave me the ride of my life !
Ps- I live in Qh central and grew up around the whole western thing and got teased (still do) about my funny little saddle and my weird big horses. “Can’t rope off those things”. So get off the pity pot already! Horse people commonly think their horses are best and everyone else is doing it wrong. No matter what group. If I walked into a cutting barn and spouted the crap the OP is saying, most of them wouldn’t have been half as nice about it as most people were for the first 3 pages of this thread. And if I lied about my WB cutting wins, they would probably literally kick my ass, and rightly so. It is insulting.
And…you don’t go to coke and whine about no one buying your ginger ale. These are WB breeders for the most part, why would they care about a competing product not getting attention (especially when the owener is not being honest about the product). They are trying to sell their own product, should they champion the qh over their own stallions and foals?
[QUOTE=Laurierace;7267875]
No, Dressagelvr called WBs inferior, not the OP. I assume that was tongue in cheek but was not an attack of the OP’s horse.[/QUOTE]
Ah right…but it basically came across as a slam on the western market to me and a put down.
I don’t personally breed for that world but several reiners and others in that world…and have been to the Quarter horse worlds and Congress just to see something different and learn about something new. Was a blast. Ridden a few reiners and working cow horses…was very impressed and it was a lot of fun. If I had a nice Appendix…that would be the world I would learn more about which I don’t think this board is a place to really do that…
Besides all the cattiness that arose, I did find out something that made me proud…
I recognized the OP’s stallion’s bloodlines! The “Kit” (Kitaman) horses have a branch here. Besides being smaller than I like…they seem to have a lot of success in a variety of speed and cow disciplines, especially HS Rodeo. Pretty too.
Not my thing, but I can appreciate a nice Western horse. Tough to look at a barrel or roping performance and see Jumping or Dressage potential (for me anyway, but I don’t pretend to be anything but a beginner in this field) but as far as general athleticism goes, I kind of like this bloodline.
I was indeed referring to WB stallions as a whole as inferior…sarcastically. Why?
B/C OP keeps putting them down and at the same time screaming snobbery and breed prejudice that WB folks don’t want to breed to her QH.
WBs aren’t intrinsically better or worse than QHs or any other breed. Both have things they excel at and things they don’t. It is no great shock to me that no QH person would want to breed to a WB and I fail to see why the reverse is such a shock.
