[QUOTE=stolen virtue;7019435]
Why start name calling ? If you really think you have the better argument why would you start the name calling ? Unless that is all you have going for the pro-carriage cause…[/QUOTE]
Since you don’t drive horses for pleasure or commercial one just has to wonder why you are riffling through and posting in the driving forums SV…other then the obvious?
I am a little confused as to why that black horse in the video is so obviuosly out of breath. .During the time of the video, I would think it would have started catching it’s breath. So,I too may have been a bit concerned had I been there, unless I had just watched the driver unload a heavy load of passengers. But I would have observed and when the driver came back, I may have followed on foot for a while to see if the horse looked ok - and then said something if it appeared to maybe have an issue.
But good grief, those women with their video cameras and attitude. I could have easily given any of them a good bitch slap. How do they think their behavior is going to help anyone? They must love to be able to shoot a video like this, possibly out of context because it may not have shown the horse just got rid of a load of passengers. They are truly obnoxious. I would have told them to mind their own effing business as well, regardless of whether the horse had a problem or not, just because i would have found them so extremely annoying. Almost as annoying as the single post posters who come here to try and inflame and who delete unwanted comments from their facebook pages. A few of them deserve the bitch slap too…
[QUOTE=Lynnwood;7020096]
Since you don’t drive horses for pleasure or commercial one just has to wonder why you are riffling through and posting in the driving forums SV…other then the obvious?[/QUOTE]
“Riffling through and posting in the driving forums…”
Like you posting in the racing forums when you do not ride and train OTTBs ? Might want to watch what you say, since your own intentions seem to be transposed onto others…
you’re kidding me - Right. That horse was panting because he was hot.
Atlanta= hot. Is there something wrong with you to be in such a state of denial that you do not acknowledge that?
Must all of you always defend horse abuse.
Don’t you people care about horses at all - or are they just a meal ticket. Never mind - I know the answer.
love your red neck language BTW - very classy - “effing” “bitch slap.”
[QUOTE=stolen virtue;7020379]
“Riffling through and posting in the driving forums…”
Like you posting in the racing forums when you do not ride and train OTTBs ? Might want to watch what you say, since your own intentions seem to be transposed onto others…[/QUOTE]
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
Horses are obligate nose breathers.
That means they cannot breathe through their mouths.
‘Panting’ as dogs do is not a cooling mechanism used by horses, though they definitely increase their respiration rate when they are exercising to supply more Oxygen to the blood. Heart rate and respiration are closely linked.
Most horses cool primarily through sweating/evaporation unless they have anhidrosis. A horse may lose 15% of the heat generated through exercise via respiration…that leaves 85% by other means.
http://www.iceep.org/pdf/iceep2/_1129100742_001.pdf
carry on.
[QUOTE=D_BaldStockings;7020936]
Horses are obligate nose breathers.
That means they cannot breathe through their mouths.
‘Panting’ as dogs do is not a cooling mechanism used by horses, though they definitely increase their respiration rate when they are exercising to supply more Oxygen to the blood. Heart rate and respiration are closely linked.
Most horses cool primarily through sweating/evaporation unless they have anhidrosis. A horse may lose 15% of the heat generated through exercise via respiration…that leaves 85% by other means.
http://www.iceep.org/pdf/iceep2/_1129100742_001.pdf
carry on.[/QUOTE]
Glad you posted it, I was speechless reading that the horse was “Panting”:eek:
LOL…I was directed here by Lynwood…panting indeed. Watch out you all though… when Elizabeth gets really ticked off, she finds your name IRL and sends threatening emails. Don’t you Lizzie?
[QUOTE=LauraKY;7020977]
LOL…I was directed here by Lynwood…panting indeed. Watch out you all though… when Elizabeth gets really ticked off, she finds your name IRL and sends threatening emails. Don’t you Lizzie?[/QUOTE]
LOL Me too!!! Kind of amusing actually! 
[QUOTE=D_BaldStockings;7020936]
Horses are obligate nose breathers.
That means they cannot breathe through their omouths.
‘Panting’ as dogs do is not a cooling mechanism used by horses, though they definitely increase their respiration rate when they are exercising to supply more Oxygen to the blood. Heart rate and respiration are closely linked.
Most horses cool primarily through sweating/evaporation unless they have anhidrosis. A horse may lose 15% of the heat generated through exercise via respiration…that leaves 85% by other means.
http://www.iceep.org/pdf/iceep2/_1129100742_001.pdf
carry on.[/QUOTE]
Sadly were we on Forel’s FB page, this comment would be deleted, you would be labeled a troll, and promptly banned. No knowledge allowed lest the sheeple learn there really isn’t any abuse going on.
Ignorance is easily remedied.
You can’t fix determinedly Stu–d.
Gravity cannot be pontificated away.
“Because I say so” is not a valid argument.
Sometimes you can’t stop the lemmings from going over the cliff…
[QUOTE=ElizabethNYC;7020760]
you’re kidding me - Right. That horse was panting because he was hot.
Atlanta= hot. Is there something wrong with you to be in such a state of denial that you do not acknowledge that?
Must all of you always defend horse abuse.
Don’t you people care about horses at all - or are they just a meal ticket. Never mind - I know the answer. [/QUOTE]
Folks, take note – this is not the first time that Elizabeth Forel has been told that horses are obligate nose-breathers, and cannot pant. I have lost count of how many times we have taken the time to try to edumacate her on our Carriage Horse Facts page, which she reads religiously. Like Barry Fitzgerald said in “How Green Was My Valley”, she “has no aptitude for learning” LOL
In all the years EF has spent obsessing about us and our horses, she has not taken the time or trouble to edify herself even a smidgen about anything equine. (She recently pronounced that “horses are, by nature, very clean animals” :lol::eek::lol:)
As far as a “meal ticket” is concerned, well - at least our horses get their meals from that money, too. What does Lizzie do with all the money she siphons off the suckers she peddles her injured-and-dying horse porn to? I know she ain’t buying round bales and shavings :winkgrin:
EF is not alone in her ignorance among her RARA peers, btw – the veterinarian who leads the charge for W.A.R. on the “Carriage Horse Cruelty” FB page was flummoxed by simple salt residue from sweat marks; she took a pic and posted it with the caption “carriage horse caked with mud” (right, because in between rides ol’ Bessie took her harness off and ran into the Park for a nice mudroll down by the pond LOL) I crap you negative, check it out: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=581227751921798&set=pb.176907979020446.-2207520000.1370574357.&type=3&permPage=1
Wouldn’t you like to be us? :dead:
[QUOTE=sketcher;7020144]
I am a little confused as to why that black horse in the video is so obviuosly out of breath. .During the time of the video, I would think it would have started catching it’s breath. So,I too may have been a bit concerned had I been there, unless I had just watched the driver unload a heavy load of passengers. But I would have observed and when the driver came back, I may have followed on foot for a while to see if the horse looked ok - and then said something if it appeared to maybe have an issue.
But good grief, those women with their video cameras and attitude. I could have easily given any of them a good bitch slap. How do they think their behavior is going to help anyone? They must love to be able to shoot a video like this, possibly out of context because it may not have shown the horse just got rid of a load of passengers. They are truly obnoxious. I would have told them to mind their own effing business as well, regardless of whether the horse had a problem or not, just because i would have found them so extremely annoying. Almost as annoying as the single post posters who come here to try and inflame and who delete unwanted comments from their facebook pages. A few of them deserve the bitch slap too…[/QUOTE]
Thank you, much appreciated.
BTW, from what I saw in that video, I would say that is a heave-y horse. We have had a couple in NYC who get that way when the humidity is very high; there are a couple of supplements we have had good success with, the best being VentiPulmin http://www.smartpakequine.com/ventipulmin-syrup-666p.aspx
[QUOTE=ElizabethNYC;7020760]
you’re kidding me - Right. That horse was panting because he was hot.
Atlanta= hot. Is there something wrong with you to be in such a state of denial that you do not acknowledge that?
Must all of you always defend horse abuse.
Don’t you people care about horses at all - or are they just a meal ticket. Never mind - I know the answer.
love your red neck language BTW - very classy - “effing” “bitch slap.”[/QUOTE]
Lizzie, you have no clue what you are talking about. If you knew ANYTHING about horses, you would know that they do not pant like a dog. I am wondering how many horses you have even taken care of much less owned. That driver was doing what he should. When a horse starts blowing like that, you do let them stand and blow. You don’t try to give them a bucket of water. Giving them too much water when they are like that is the WORST thing you could do for them. Sometime when a horse is worked, they do blow like that, its not uncommon. But if you knew ANYTHING about horses, you would know this. But you choose not to learn anything about the equine industry.
I am a carriage driver in Texas. My horse is my partner. The reason I do this job is because I love the partnership and interaction with my horse. If I did not drive him on a carriage and let him earn his way, I could not afford him. He gets the best quality feed, hay, vet care and farrier care. I spend more on my horse every 6 weeks in shoes than I do on myself in a year. So, don’t tell me that my horse is nothing but a meal ticket.
I would post this on you FB page but of course, I am one of those that has been banned for posting the truth. You don’t want the truth! All you want to do is twist what anyone says into your stupid fight.
I love my horse and would lay down and die for him. So how dare you accuse me or any carriage driver of being a slave driver. Have you ever been a carriage driver and walked in those shoes? I can answer this, the answer is NO. So, you really don’t have any place in judging them. Have you ever tried to talk sanely to a carriage driver to find out exactly how they feel? No, because all you know how to do is accuse when you have no clue what you are talking about.
You don’t like the red neck language? Come to Texas and say that!!! You would last about 2 seconds here. They would run you out of town on the rail!
[QUOTE=michaleenflynn;7021261]
Folks, take note – this is not the first time that Elizabeth Forel has been told that horses are obligate nose-breathers, and cannot pant. I have lost count of how many times we have taken the time to try to edumacate her on our Carriage Horse Facts page, which she reads religiously. Like Barry Fitzgerald said in “How Green Was My Valley”, she “has no aptitude for learning” LOL
In all the years EF has spent obsessing about us and our horses, she has not taken the time or trouble to edify herself even a smidgen about anything equine. (She recently pronounced that "horses are, by nature, very clean animals :lol::eek::lol:)
As far as a “meal ticket” is concerned, well - at least our horses get their meals from that money, too. What does Lizzie do with all the money she siphons off the suckers she peddles her injured-and-dying horse porn to? I know she ain’t buying round bales and shavings :winkgrin:
EF is not alone in her ignorance among her RARA peers, btw – the veterinarian who leads the charge for W.A.R. on the “Carriage Horse Cruelty” FB page was flummoxed by simple salt residue from sweat marks; she took a pic and posted it with the caption “carriage horse caked with mud” (right, because in between rides ol’ Bessie took her harness off and ran into the Park for a nice mudroll down by the pond LOL) I crap you negative, check it out: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=581227751921798&set=pb.176907979020446.-2207520000.1370574357.&type=3&permPage=1
Wouldn’t you like to be us? :dead:[/QUOTE]
I’m really curious…how does the “veterinarian” manage to hang on to her license?
How about helping the horses in Georgia who REALLY NEED HELP!!! The carriage horses are not starving and are in relatively good condition.
Take a drive around rural GA -and start taking note. Horses starve here and nothing is done. Some counties literally will do nothing.
The animal control in GA is underfunded. Unless a horse is a downer or there is no water, AC will do little but inspect the property. They might issue a violation for lack of food but unless a horse is down…it is hard for real action to occur. Now -there are some general laws on the books about neglect but for the most part, many GA counties do not allocate enough resources to actually do anything about neglect.
Writing about carriage horses in Atlanta is just plain ole politiking.
Example: Last winter, I tried to have a horse that lived a couple of miles from me removed. This gelding was a “one” on body scale and 500 pounds (at least) underweight removed. It’s eye was extremely infected. It was on an acre or two -and was expected to live on that forage over the winter. I believe the horse finally died before AC would do anything (It went on for weeks of me calling). About a month ago, now that the weeds have grown up again -the people got two NEW horses on the property. It never stops in GA.
So, please -carriage horses in GA? For the most part, it is a humane industry. Yes, there have been some issues with a couple of the companies over the years and those companies need to be shut down. BUT there are lots of good companies too. Don’t throw the baby out with the baby water. Particularly when this state invests so little in making sure the majority of horses are not neglected. Because we DO have a serious issue in GA but it is NOT the carriage horses!!!
Who remembers this thread a few years back about a couple of horses near me that were starving? There are really issues about AC in Georgia, but it isn’t about carriage horses. http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-132847.html
[QUOTE=LauraKY;7021543]
I’m really curious…how does the “veterinarian” manage to hang on to her license?[/QUOTE]
She is a small animal vet with a practice in a very tony area of downtown Manhattan.
You may remember her from the time when one of our horses tripped and fell, as his driver urged him to take a corner turn at a trot, to spare the family with small children in his carriage the pointed fingers and the screaming of “Shame! Shame! The blood is on your hands!” from this vet’s group. She ran over to where the horse lay - not to help, but to video, all the while telling people to “get out of her way” so that she could “get this”, while she cursed at and berated the driver and others who were trying to get Flash on his feet.
Here is the video, she is very proud of it:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWhmuUUeZKU
[QUOTE=skydy;7019206]
I see people who don’t seem to know that it could be detrimental to give a horse that has been working a full bucket of water. I see people who have no idea if the horse has been given water or not before they arrived.
The horse seems to be the type that was quite prevalent back in the day, such as the milk or beer wagon horse who knew his rounds and stopped and stayed until his driver came back. Perhaps it is best not to leave the horse unattended in this day and age, because of traffic concerns and because ignorant do gooders could give it a big bucket of water or otherwise interfere when it would be harmful to the horse.
The driver probably stopped to take a quick pee and then was confronted by women freaking out because the horse was blowing. Jeeze…[/QUOTE]
Um, WHAT? It’s detrimental to give a working horse water? I haven’t heard that in about 10 years, better update your knowledge.
And why is it acceptable to let a horse stand there while “breathing rapidly” since you all have something against calling it panting. Why not get him some water and help him cool by sponging it onto his body? That’s what an actual veterinary professional would tell you to do.
I’m not against the horse working, or working hard. But for goodness sake, admit that better care was in order for the one in the video who clearly could have benefited from a little help bringing his temp and resp down to normal.
And Flash just looks like a been-there-done-that sort who was patiently waiting to be freed so he could stand up.
You are typing as though you are dealing with a rational person who is open minded and has the horses best interests at heart.
[QUOTE=Win1;7021965]
And why is it acceptable to let a horse stand there while “breathing rapidly” since you all have something against calling it panting. Why not get him some water and help him cool by sponging it onto his body? That’s what an actual veterinary professional would tell you to do.
I’m not against the horse working, or working hard. But for goodness sake, admit that better care was in order for the one in the video who clearly could have benefited from a little help bringing his temp and resp down to normal.[/QUOTE]
Why be shrieking like a shrew ion someone’s face with a video camera instead of being respectful and polite? Until I see the whole story - what the horse was doing up until he was parked - and what the driver was thinking - I am disinclined to put any stake into this video. I mean geesh, the first thing they were all twisted up about was that the very well trained horse was not tethered to anything. It makes me think you all really need to get a life - and as one poster suggested above - go help the horses that truly need help.
True, those people handled it pretty badly, but that doesn’t mean we have to deny there was even a small issue with the well being of the animal. I would not find it acceptable to do nothing with a horse in that state in private, much less public. He should have been doing more, as rapid respiration is never a good sign that we should just ignore.
Drivers who make the CHOICE to be in the public’s eye should take that choice seriously along with all of it’s consequences, good and bad. The lady was extremely obnoxious, but as a horse PROFESSIONAL the driver could have also handled it differently. Rather than telling her to f-off, why not just say…yes, he’s hot but I had to step away for a moment, thanks for watching him. I’m out of water but will handle the situation.
The people didn’t understand what was going on, true. But that doesn’t mean they don’t have the right to be concerned and since he made the choice to pursue a career where the general public is the customer, he also made the choice to educate and answer their questions in a professional manner.
And BTW, I’m not supporting any misguided facebook random attack on the industry. But I’m not going to sit here claiming to be a knowledgeable horse person and deny that any issues even exist.
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