Yes, that is what I thought but then read colic could resemble choke.
Get the vet out now. You lucked up when first pony survived. Get the vet out and find out what caused both to have issues. colic often kills. Nothing to fool around with. We on a horse board can only tell you our experiences. We are not veterinarians so we do not know as much as vets do. Only what we’ve experienced. We haven’t seen your horse or the toadstools or anything. Call the vet and get him out. Your horse could have a blockage above the area where the manure is coming out or could have gas colic or could be poisoned by toadstools or could have any number of things wrong. Buy decent alfalfa or timothy hay if your horses survive this. But first get the vet out now to treat your horses.
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FYi once they choke they are susceptible to choking again. my protocol for a horse that chokes is to feed them soaked food for 2 weeks. that’s all food - hay, grain, any pellets, etc. if you have any large pellet/cube type foods, switch them for something smaller - i do not feed alfalfa or timothy cubes to horses with history of choke.
where are you? i think the poster that asked about changes in temperatures/seasons is onto something. sometimes drops in temps makes the “barometrically sensitive” horses get gastric upset. i keep an eye on them, soak their feed, and have someone hand-walk for 10m and lunge at trot for 5m and it usually helps with the gassiness. sometimes they get a mild impaction and movement + vet advise is taken.
if you are seeing temperature drops remember this is the time of year the grass gets very high in fructans as it is highly stressed, at least in my area – and it frosts over in the AM – some farms abstain from turning out on frosted grass until it thaws for that reason. some horsemen believe frosted grass (or gorging on frosted grass, really) can cause colic and it’s best to feed them hay/grain and fill their appetite a little before turning out on frost-tipped grass.
the other thing… this is the time of year the horses with subtle undiagnosed cushings and/or metabolic disorders can really deteriorate - and cushings and laminitis can go hand in hand. fall is one of the better times to test for cushings i’m told, due to the seasons producing higher cortisol (IRC?) in the horse.
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Less sugar … just look for lower quality hay. It was worded somewhat similar to that.
Have been researching hay to death.
I have only had the ponies for a month or so. Just getting back into the horse world after many years so I am still getting to know hay dealers. I was told by a nearby boarding facility that there is not a lot of good quality hay in our state … but I went to a haying talk … speaker was prof of the U who heads pasture and hay info. He talks about getting/making good quality and how. I showed him the hay we are using and he called it poor. But he went on to say a lot of horse folks are looking for this lesser quality of hay to get lower sugar.
The hay came from a friend who just started haying after years of fields not being done so we knew it would not be good quality. I swithced last week due to weeds. This hay seller has a good reputation and hay def better … he says it was later first cut BUT have not had it tested yet. Just got our corer to get that done.
Yes, gave banamine and checking feet.
I have a mare who gets very quiet and depressed when she chokes–because she was a chronic choker. She finally choked very badly and we investigated further to find an internal abscess pressing on and narrowing her esophagus. After treating that, no more chokes. EVERY single other choke I’ve ever seen has the horse pretty frantic. Seven’s chokes could be mistaken for a mild colic, but only because she choked frequently enough to know to wait and rest on her own. Horses don’t normally get quiet when they choke, IME. And you usually see food come back up the nose…which you did not see, correct? I’m really dubious that choke was the problem last night at all. And the horse is still depressed?
Plus you have another horse that ADR–ain’t doin right–with not as much manure as there should be and a lot of various feed changes thrown at both of them.
I’d really get the vet OUT at this point. Hopefully it’s for “nothing”…just confirmation that you’re on the right track…but you really need another set of eyeballs on the horses. Fatal colic can easily start with a horse that is just depressed and “off.”
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There is NO way to prevent colic. If someone invented an absolute prevention they would win the Nobel Prize in horse husbandry/science. 
But even an absolute would be impossible because of the many types of colic that are beyond our control like lipoma/fatty tumor colic.
We can only do an abundance of things that can help prevent certain types colic (gas, sand, impaction, etc.) …and even then it can happen out of the blue leaving us flumoxed as to why it happend at all.
But good quality free choice hay, plenty of water intake year round, non-moldy feeds, not feeding on sandy ground, and anything else you can think of (common sense wise) is about the best you can do towards prevention = basic horse care.
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All I said was if you’re comfortable, loads of non vet owners are trained in placing a nasogastric tube. It’s not difficult really. And yes I am a licensed veterinary technician. Rural areas frequently train owners to run a nasogastric as affording a rural vet call is not often possible and that simple procedure could save a life. I’m new to this forum but obviously don’t belong here, see ya. :no:
Please don’t go. I certainly understand a lot of folks live in very rural areas and sometimes life saving measures are done by owners when it is not possible for a vet to come out.
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I live in a rural area vet travels over an hour to get to most farms around here. He doesn’t train owners to do the NG tubing. Fact is if you can’t afford emergency vet call then you shouldn’t own a horse. There’s no way you’d get a tube down either of my horse’s noses without being tranqed. 200$ plus emergency call is par for the course for after hours call. Farm call is 125$ during regular working hours depending on how far out you live. First 20 miles are free after that it’s a 1.00 a mile.
If horse has a twisted gut putting more stuff down him will only make matters worse,no owner will be able to diagnose a twisted gut. My one geldings would be dead if i hadn’t had a vet involved for the one colic he had.
EDITED TO ADD if horse is colicing better to call vet sooner, rather then later,that saves lives.
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I think there’s a misconception that overly mature (late cut) first cut hay is lower in sugar. It may be higher in fiber because it may be left to mature longer than later cuts and is more stemmy. Here, with our climate, later cuttings are higher in protein and lower in sugar generally, because it can be cut less mature and the temp swings aren’t as big. All the commercial growers irrigate, so the later hays don’t get as stressed as non-irrigated pasture when the dry months hit.
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Kayce, welcome to COTH. I hope you stay.
As far as your suggestion “if you are comfortable with it” – I found nothing wrong with the statement but I also come from a background where it is not uncommon for rural horse-owners to have to do tubing and/or administration themselves. Perhaps it’s important to provide perspective – COTH by and large covers a huge swath of horsemen and horsemanship - some rural, some in the mecca of horsecare – sometimes people don’t know how other people do it, and vice versa - so it can come as a shock to those who are in the neighborhood of top notch vet care to hear that someone who is in an area devoid of vet care does their own shots, IV medications, or NG tubing.
COTH can be quite prickly, for good reason, about uneducated owners trying to take matters into their own hands. I don’t mean uneducated as an insult, BTW. With tubing or hosing, I think it can go wrong quickly and it’s best for someone who is trained to do it. Even vets can cause aspiration pneumonia so it’s really best to CYA and have a vet do it for you and you get to hold the pail :winkgrin:
Whether or not it is appropriate to tube the horse yourself… depends on your area, your level of expertise/comfort, and the emergence of the situation. I don’t think a person who has never tubed a horse should do it. It is very similar to the “Should an owner do their own IV meds?” debate… Some vets are much more casual about letting clients administer things themselves - others are very rigid. Like you said, certain demographics dictate the amount of knowledge a casual horseman has and whether or not a vet is inclined to leave meds or administration up to the client. IMHO there is not always a black or white or right or wrong answer. My vet taught me how to tube a choking horse and has suggested I do it before calling him out. I would never do it to a client’s horse, however.
For several years I lived in an area absolutely devoid of practicing veterinarians - the closest vet was an hour + away and their primary practice was small animals… so I get where you are coming from.
I prefer to sedate a horse and get them to drink slurry and even with the knowledge of how to tube, still called a vet out last summer when my gelding choked bolting someone else’s grain. I consider myself lucky that in the several years I lived out in the boonies that I never had to put my knowledge to practice.
On the subject of very rural areas and what a vet is willing to leave you with - I had a barn lady who nearly fainted from shock when she heard a vet I used in the boonies had left me with a small arsenal of torb, dorm, ace and rompin… that is something that is very No-No in the NE and she had never heard of a vet leaving clients with vials of sedatives and/or tranquilizers. She was positively shocked - but again, it’s a world she has never lived in and wouldn’t know – some places in the US don’t even have a large animal vet within hours of them and people forget that.
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here in the pnw our local grass first cut hay can be low protein, high indgestible fibre and super high sugar, like 25 % NSC. People think it’s “good pony hay” until pony founders.
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Thank you Beowolf, it really isnt uncommon in my area, as you said vet care can be costly and frankly impossible to come by and many are taught things to save their animals should that be the case. I’d never suggest anyone do it if they’re not comfortable and know how, hence the “if you’re comfortable” lol.
I’m not a fan of public forums and the aggressiveness of them. I’ll stick around but you won’t likey see me being an active member. I’m not assertive enough to stand against a hord of folks who aren’t open to other methods being accepted or who obviously know little but think they know everything. Don’t have the energy to put up with that. Thanks for the back up though, sure got a bit beat up there and feeling pretty crummy about it. :disillusionment:
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I was just at a haying event. I think the University prof concurred with the sugar content being lower in later cut hay … Overall nutrients are lowers are less the later it is cut … And highest in May! That is when he says is the optimal time to cut re quality. Course most don’t, won’t or can’t. So he says by mid June.
What was the date of cutting?
Welcome Kayce,
Sorry you were treated in a crummy fashion! But please stick around :yes::yes:
I too know farm owners who have been taught how to perform minor veterinary procedures by vets so they can be prepared, ‘just in case’ the vet is too far working another case, or there is some disaster that interferes with the vet getting to the patient.
Glad we all agree passing an NG Tube is not a skill to be learned via an internet BB.
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I was reluctant to post here after having seen some of the harsh discussions and how folks treat one another … BUT there are plenty here that dispense good advice and input … So when I am feeling brave … I post.
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NOT welcomed by me!! Not worth the time of day.
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Are both horses back to normal now? If the manure output has decreased in either horse I would have the vet out. That was the only symptom my horse had at first when she had a mild impaction 2 years ago.
My other mare had a gas colic several weeks ago and the vet tubed mineral oil as well.
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