[QUOTE=vxf111;7791894]
Um, that’s what I meant by “practice” and “address the issue.” The word “or” is conjunctive.[/QUOTE]
Yes, I saw the “and/or” and also appreciate the practice, practice part. But IMHO the OP is already inclined to excuse so I would like to encourage the practice part over the packer part.
Pony club ratings can be excellent life learning events. My son was taking his C3 rating & passed the flat portion. The examiners asked him to redo a leg wrap from earlier in the rating, and while he was crouching down to work on it, the horse kicked at a fly on his belly and clunked my son in the head - one trip to the ER + Stitches + concussion later, that rating was over. 2 months later, we drove 8 hours from NH to VA for him to complete it. He passed everything - except stadium. A long way to go to fail stadium, but he is the first to say he didn’t ride it well. Driving home from that, the trailer came off the truck at 65 mph in the middle lane of the interstate when the hitch broke. Fortunately, everyone was fine, except for the few years taken off my life part. FINALLY he retook the stadium portion & passed the whole rating about 3 months after initially taking it. 
He learned a lot from the experience, I think, and we viewed it as a positive lesson in a lot of things: handling failure with grace, patience, perseverance…
[QUOTE=Anne FS;7791925]
Yes, I saw the “and/or” and also appreciate the practice, practice part. But IMHO the OP is already inclined to excuse so I would like to encourage the practice part over the packer part.[/QUOTE]
This is assuming the horse truly has a confidence issue, as stated in the OP.
I sometimes see PC parents INSIST that whatever horse the kid has be the horse that can do every job. It’s not always so practical. While I think it’s important for the kid to learn to ride the horse she has, and support the horse-- a testing situation is stressful. In this case, given that the rider missed one element-- there’s an added time pressure because unless things have changed-- you can only re-do the missed element for a certain period of time. I think there’s NO SHAME in taking an element of pressure out of the situation by re-attempting with a horse that’s been-there-done-that with the grid jumping.
I love pony club but something I think the “kick on, man up, cowboy through this!” attitude is seen as the ONLY appropriate one. Sometimes pushing on DOES make you a better horseman. Sometimes. But you know what attitude I think is also wonderful and doesn’t get as much good press-- the “let me learn from experience” attitude?? Isn’t that how many successful riders got where they are? At some point, they had a teacher/horse with more experience and they got to make mistakes and learn without as much risk.
I think there is NOTHING WRONG with a safety net horse and it doesn’t make you a bad horseman. Doesn’t mean you’re not going to go home and make the horse you lease a grid-master… on your own timeframe, without the time/testing pressure… but there’s NO SHAME in saying “right now, this horse is not an ideal candidate for taking this part of the rating. We’re going to work on her at home, but for the re-test we’re going to use a horse with more experience that will set us up for greater success.”
I don’t see this as an easy out-- just helping remove a potential roadblock to success. Just because the horse is a packer doesn’t mean the rider passes automatically-- the rider still needs to ride and even more explain what happened to the examiner. But it’s removing one item of stress/uncertainty from an equation where I don’t think the stress/uncertainty is necessary.
The kid is a potential C1. It may be unrealistic for her to go home and fix this horse’s confidence issues in a month. I don’t know the horse/rider. That may be do-able or not. Being realistic and saying “hey, we aren’t going to get this horse reliable for the test in time” doesn’t mean the kid has to sit out the test. She passed the other elements, which would suggest she’s ready for the level with an appropriate mount. She can work on her lease horse on her own timeframe.
Contining to push a stopper through a situation where she might continue to stop, on a timeframe, with added stress does not a horseman make, IMHO. Saying “this is a different problem for a different day” and finding a better mount for the re-test is the better test of horsemanship.
I observed a C2 test recently. One rider had a very hot 14 hand pony but has finally learned to ride her with a quiet seat/leg passed the tests (she used to be pretty scary to watch). Another rider with an enormous, gorgeous horse did not pass on the flat because of her position, despite the niceness of the horse. the others being rated were on decent, but not perfect, horses, and rode them well. This is how the raters should rate - based on the rider and how they handle the ride they have that day. During the knowledge portion, one kid was clearly much more confident and prepared than the others, but they all passed because they were all in the range of “meets standards”.
I felt the rating was done fairly, and the kids had every chance to succeed by redoing things they had trouble with the first time. None of the candidates were my own child, so hopefully I am not biased in my opinion.
The C1 is a big step up from the D3. Not everyone gets it on their first try. One of the new C2s from above failed her D3 twice before getting it, but persevered and is now a C2.
Just remember that Gina Miles failed her A-rating 3 times 
I’m a DC in Pony Club and I’m actually hosting a C1/C2 certification for our region later this month as well as helping prepare four girls for the C1 test. I’m up to my eyeballs in C1 standards right now!
Pony Club tests against a basic set of “standards.” On all PC tests, there are three options for examiners to check: ES (exceeds standards); MS (meets standards) and DNMS (does not meet standards). If during a testing a rider receives a DNMS on an item in their test, they do not pass that section of the test.
It does not matter if the horse was jumping a grid great two days prior. He has to jump the grid on the day of the testing. It’s not about height, it’s about combinations of fences and the grid is a certain test of a horse’s training and the rider’s ability to ride him through. Simply put, they have to be able to show the examiner on that given day that they are capable of meeting or exceeding the standards for testing at the C1 level.
The good news is that she can re-test that section within 30 days, and at the C1 level you do not need to have a National Examiner do the testing. You and your daughter should talk to the examiner as well as your DC and make plans accordingly. Also, she can test or re-test on a difference horse. At our upcoming C1 I have several girls doing flat on one horse and jumping on a borrowed horse because their horse is not able to do 2’9" comfortably.
It’s a bummer, but hey this is life. Horses have good days and bad days. We can have great prep but bomb on the day of the show. As they say in the USPC pledge: “I shall compete for the enjoyment of the game well played, taking winning or losing in stride, knowing that without good temper, sport loses its cause for being.” Help your daughter see this failure to meet standards at her C1 as simply a step along the way. It’s not so much about climbing the ratings ladder but building character along the way. When she achieves success at the various levels, it will make the reward all the more sweet.
If you’re near Santa Rosa, CA and want to come on the 17th to re-test the jump portion, I’ll slip you into the testing I’m hosting!
USPC changed the retest criteria earlier this year. Copied from the Local Level Testing page:
“A candidate may retest only if the candidate qualifies for a retest by passing the minimum number of sections stated on the test sheet and the original Examiner has recommended the candidate to retest. Those testing during the current year have until August 31 of the following year to retest. Candidates must arrange for retests through their DC/CA.”
I am confused why anyone would think that the tester would consider that the horse and rider could do this last week, two days before, or an hour afterwards. This test is like a horse show or even your math final. All that matters is what the judge saw at that time, period. Nerves can make us completely mess up something we can normally do with no issue at all. It is part of testing/showing.
[QUOTE=Mel;7790405]
So why if my daughter tryed and tryed to get the horse over the grid and had no luck at the oxer, but jumped the hieght in stadium she shouldnt be marked down for it. The horses problem was out of my daughters control, so why say it’s her fault? It isnt fair the examiner marked my daughter down on something because of the horse.[/QUOTE]
I wanted to say first that AnneFS said it all so well and without snark, I admire her…
BUT…this is what’s wrong with the world. There is a standard, your daughter and horse did not meet it on that given day. What does fair have to do with it? Horses are not bicycles. They’re living creatures with minds of their own. Your daughter will have good days and bad days and the best thing you can teach her is that it’s NEVER the horse’s fault. You win some,you lose some…you do your best to be prepared, you bring your A game, and whatever the outcome, you accept it graciously and learn something from it. That’s the difference between being a horse person and being a rider.
All 3 of my girls went through Pony Club and it’s the best thing I could ever have done for them as riders and as human beings. I call it “Life skills in a horse package”
[QUOTE=breyerblu;7792242]
USPC changed the retest criteria earlier this year. Copied from the Local Level Testing page:
“A candidate may retest only if the candidate qualifies for a retest by passing the minimum number of sections stated on the test sheet and the original Examiner has recommended the candidate to retest. Those testing during the current year have until August 31 of the following year to retest. Candidates must arrange for retests through their DC/CA.”[/QUOTE]
I think this is a great change. I thought it was a little arbitrary that you had one month to re-test. Sometimes it created a scramble. Still… until you retest and pass, you’re not that at that level and can’t rally, qualify at that level etc.-- so I imagine there’s still some pressure to get the retesting done.
Agree with everything everyone has said above. Unfortunately, a pony clubber must have a packer of a horse in order to pass and not a horse that they work hard on their own to move up the ratings. My son just recently went for his C2. He was the only kid in the group that said he had issues with his horse throughout the year and has been working with his trainer to move up (horse started stopping for no reason). His trainer changed the way he rode to be able to ride his horse through a stadium course and it has been working. Horse is a total packer going through grids. Day of testing…went through grids perfect, went through stadium just about perfect - all kids re-did a portion of the course and his was even better. Examiner questioned how he rode and he explained how he used to ride and then the problem that started happening and then how his trainer changed his position and now they don’t have any problems with jumping. At the end, he failed jumping. Examiner said he has beautiful position (both upper body and leg) yet his leg is weak. When we questioned her she could not give an answer. Just that he has a weak leg and is out of balance - yet she agreed that if the stirrups were taken away his leg would not move and again how beautiful his position is. We’re still very confused by it. Still waiting to get the test back to see if he can re-take the jumping portion or not.
As someone who graduated with a standard “B” rating, and brought all my horses up from very very green youngsters, I totally, and wholeheartedly disagree with this.
The horse I rode from D1 - C2 came to me totally green (walk trot under saddle - no canter, no jump) and certainly wasn’t a packer.
I remember feeling a bit furious when “other moms” said - oh, well Appsolute is on a packer thats why I [passed / placed / made championship team]
… That exact same horse had been labeled as “dangerous” by the same moms just a year earlier - when it was young, rank, green and bucked me off at least weekly. I put in a lot of hard work, many hours in the saddle, and suffered many bruises to produce that “packer”.
And the same “packer” comments surfaced again - this time for the OTTB that came to me track broke - and I later used for my C3 and B ratings…
Teens can be GREAT at producing packers! Who else has that much free time, a young body, and the fearlessness of an immortal teenager?
Horses do not generally start refusing jumps for “no reason”. Usually its poor riding (getting the horse to bad spots, hitting in the mouth etc) or pain. The fact that changing position and riding strategy “fixed” the issue - tells me it was probably a riding problem.
Hopefully you will get some answers from the examiner. I would focus on the “out of balance” comment, as this will affect his effectiveness much more than the prettiness of his leg - and could have been the reason for the fail.
[QUOTE=mosmom;7792671]
Agree with everything everyone has said above. Unfortunately, a pony clubber must have a packer of a horse in order to pass and not a horse that they work hard on their own to move up the ratings. [/QUOTE]
I really hope that’s not true of your club, I know it wasn’t the case in ours. My girls did well on an two different OTTB’s brought along by us alone, a WP bred Quarter horse, an Appy with some attitude and a POA with only one speed (which was ZOOM) they were all safe, but the opposite of packers. In my girls’ case, the challenge made them better riders.
[QUOTE=mosmom;7792671]
Agree with everything everyone has said above. Unfortunately, a pony clubber must have a packer of a horse in order to pass and not a horse that they work hard on their own to move up the ratings. [/QUOTE]
I really hope that’s not true of your club, I know it wasn’t the case in ours. My girls did well on two different OTTB’s brought along by us alone, a WP bred Quarter horse, an Appy with some attitude and a POA with only one speed (which was ZOOM) they were all safe, but the opposite of packers. In my girls’ case, the challenge made them better riders.
[QUOTE=mosmom;7792671]
Agree with everything everyone has said above. Unfortunately, a pony clubber must have a packer of a horse in order to pass and not a horse that they work hard on their own to move up the ratings.[/QUOTE]
I disagree with this and agree with what Appsolute said. The pony that I got my D1-C2 on came to me green green green AND, we found out, had a tendency to express her opinions by rearing.
The horse I took my C3 traditional and dressage on DID have show experience prior to coming to me, but he was in no way a “packer” despite what other moms would whisper. This was why I loved switch rides. It’s surprising how easy or how hard a rider can make a horse look.
Are there horses that make it easier to rate? Sure! There are horses out there that make you look great. But I really think that falls apart at the upper ratings once switch rides start. Examiners, in my experience, will give you the opposite of what you have. My switch rides for the flat portion of my traditional C3 and my dressage C3 were BOTH small, short-strided mares with busy mouthes and lots of knee action. Coincidence? I don’t think so.
[QUOTE=mosmom;7792671]
Agree with everything everyone has said above. Unfortunately, a pony clubber must have a packer of a horse in order to pass and not a horse that they work hard on their own to move up the ratings. My son just recently went for his C2. He was the only kid in the group that said he had issues with his horse throughout the year and has been working with his trainer to move up (horse started stopping for no reason). His trainer changed the way he rode to be able to ride his horse through a stadium course and it has been working. Horse is a total packer going through grids. Day of testing…went through grids perfect, went through stadium just about perfect - all kids re-did a portion of the course and his was even better. Examiner questioned how he rode and he explained how he used to ride and then the problem that started happening and then how his trainer changed his position and now they don’t have any problems with jumping. At the end, he failed jumping. Examiner said he has beautiful position (both upper body and leg) yet his leg is weak. When we questioned her she could not give an answer. Just that he has a weak leg and is out of balance - yet she agreed that if the stirrups were taken away his leg would not move and again how beautiful his position is. We’re still very confused by it. Still waiting to get the test back to see if he can re-take the jumping portion or not.[/QUOTE]
This is not true. I did all of my ratings on a very green OTTB youngster brought along completely by myself, all before I was 17 and I am not (and was not) the world’s greatest rider and I passed every rating my first try. I made many mistakes along the way at the cost of both myself and my horse, but never once did I blame my horse and never once did I walk away from a mistake without learning something.
I completely and totally disagree with you. You do not need a packer. You need someone who is willing to show up with their A-game, right attitude and slug along even when the footing gets ugly. This is JUST as important to many examiners as it is that the rider/horse meets all the standards: how you handle a difficult horse or difficult question is something that MANY examiners place a great deal of weight on.
You can have a difficult horse and still pass the rating. Mine proved this very well. What is more important to most is how you deal with the difficulty.
From what you said the examiner said, it sounds like your son may have not had a secure or independent seat, which IS standard at that level. I am sorry your son did not pass but that is your son’s anatomy, not your horses’ – and you do not need a packer to complete all the ratings.
You definitely don’t need a packer to get through Pony Club ratings. It can help… but it’s not a sure bet. I did all sections of my A test on a horse I brought up myself from track-broke. It took me a couple of tries (failed the flat portion the first time) but it was hugely satisfying to have done my entire A test with a horse I’d trained myself.
The only time I borrowed a horse, mine had gone lame before my B2 test. The borrowed horse was most people’s definition of packer; but when we switched, the other candidate could not get him out of a WALK. Both she and I were competing at Prelim at the time. So though he was an ex-Advanced horse, he was blind in one eye, had an unusual way of going, was opinionated and sensitive, and therefore not really a packer.
ETA: I failed the XC portion of that B2 test!!! But since the marks get added up, it was an overall pass. Yes, I will never forget failing XC on my Advanced level “packer”… (I made the decision to trot a fence, and was told that was not meeting the standard…)
LOL…nothing like a switch ride to show those nay-sayer’s what’s what! I love it when that happens.
I also disagree with the “packer” comment. My own Pony Club horses were all green horses I brought along myself. I took my A on a 5 year old (and passed everything but X-C because it was really a bit much for her).
My son started riding a 4 year old green small pony when he was 9. NOT a match made in heaven at first, but they’ve become a great team and at last fall at 12, he passed his C1 on this 12 hand pony, as well as taking him to the games, show jumping, eventing and tetrathlon rallies and championships the last 2 years. Next year he’ll move up to our non-packer, but nice minded 6 year old and go for his C2 on her. None of the horses at the C2 rating I just watched would be considered packers.
You don’t need a packer by a longshot. But you do need a horse that will do everything asked. A horse whose been through ratings before and proven he’s up to the task doesn’t have to be a packer-- but it’s a huge help to not be trying something for the first time “under pressure” at a rating or to be trying something where you know the horse may run into a problem.
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