Again, posterity. LOL.
1 Like
What, exactly, is your dog in this fight, Cutter99?
You seem more invested in this thread the the casual, conversational antagonist.
4 Likes
IKR. OP is not going to answer the questions about the diet because she wants Triple Crown to shoulder the blame. She is going to portray herself as correct and righteous.
2 Likes
1 Like
Oops I forgot something. Triple Crown SENIOR is specifically marketed and advertised for SENIOR horses. The minimum recommended feeding amount is 5-6 lbs per day. How much were you feeding?
2 Likes
I hate to see a good company maligned in a one sided fight, especially when all the relevant information is not being provided. As someone who worked in the feed industry for 15 years, but never for Triple Crown, I have a lot of respect for Triple Crown and their employees.
The OP came here looking for information, according to her own posts, but really came here looking to gain sympathy and trash Triple Crown. Yet she refuses to answer questions about other crucial things that can cause or contribute to laminitis in horses.
If she was feeding 2 lbs. of feed versus 10 lbs. of feed, there is a significant difference. Heck, she even states the horse had underlying metabolic issues. And that she had backed off his normal exercise routine. Had she been testing her hay?
Triple Crown responded to her Facebook post, immediately and with sympathy, and is attempting to seek answers about what is going on.
Palm Beach nailed it in post #23.
5 Likes
Has anyone tried looking up the amounts of NSC in other âlowâ NSC feed? Just sayin!
1 Like
Oh, I agree. When Nutrena first started with âSafe Choiceâ pellets, some 20 yrs ago? People just simply assumed safe meant it was safe for metabolic, IR, laminitic horses. Then folks started seeing symptoms increase and they ran the NSC rating of it and it came in at, IIRC, near 30%?
Current day formulas are much, much lower of course.
I donât think thereâs a problem with coming here and expressing concerns and asking for feedback. But I do agree thereâs more to a simple case of laminitis than feeding a certain feed. I wish the OP would come back and answer some of the questions posed.
I personally have known 3 horses who foundered for absolutely no reason (seemingly) other than they just did. These owners fought with therapy, surgery, medicine, nutrition, mineral supplementation, etc. Nothing saved them in the long run even though they explore every possible angle. I donât think we can always find a reasonâŠ
2 Likes
correlation does not equal causation
5 Likes
If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, quacks like a duck, generally it is a duckâŠ
Palm Beach & Cutter 99- are you both still in Middle School?
I certainly did not come here for sympathy and your comments about âjudge, jury & executionerâ
REALLY?? Very immature & unproductive.
Maybe be there are people like you two out there to try to bully people into silence.
In your spare time, you may want to check out the HUNDREDs of negative maligning comments about the differences in the feed since the Mill change, along with horses that have experienced colic, choke due to bigger pieces of beet pulp, kernels of corn ( in a food that has ZERO corn), plastic, sticks, among other things.
Based on that, itâs very hard for me to have any sympathy for the feed company- thatâs for certain.
To all all the people that have reached out to me privately to avoid the middle school bullying, non productive posters- Thank You for sharing.
1 Like
The point I was trying to make about âlowâ NSC feeds is that if you pull the numbers on them, many range around the amount that the OP claims was in the product tested. And these are products that use the word âlowâ in their name and product description.
The OP has come back repeatedly, made accusations and never answered a single question. I guess we are all supposed to just swallow what she says and pat her on the back. She does not seem to understand this is a forum of horse people who have been around the block, and some of us more than once.
Many of us have years of experience dealing with metabolic and laminitic horses, and know there are many pieces to the puzzle.
2 Likes
And now we are bullies for pointing out the obvious?
No, I personally want the ENTIRE story before passing judgement.
How many pounds per day of feed was the horse receiving? How many pounds per day of hay? Was the hay tested? How much exercise was the horse receiving? Other health issues?
Every single one of these questions is relevant to the situation.
7 Likes
That was not the only change at the time of this, thatâs the point. You keep pointing at the feed milling change, and keep not mentioning the change in exercise and temperature. You appear to want to point right at Triple Crown and Purina, and want to minimize the other issues.
Historically, the new manufacturer is not known for quality control & there have been enough complaints from customers to warrant the founder issuing a letter admitting there have been âinconsistenciesâ. I personally find that highly coincidental.
TC has had consistency issues before, largely between Winter and Summer formulas (ie bricks vs not). You are also not engaging in the issue I raised which is that if you do not have 3rd party analysis of this feed from several points prior to the milling change, you cannot possibly state as fact that TC Sr was always 11.7% NSC, and never higher. Meaning, just because it tested higher this time (and your number is still relatively low for horses who at least arenât majorly metabolic. And even if your horse IS majorly metabolic, you still wonât answer the question of how much you were feeding, and whether you were mitigating sugars from the majority of the diet, ie hay. You arenât even stating your horse HAS a metabolic issue, only that he
If youâre feeding 20lb of a 15% NSC hay, and 5lb of a feed that is listed as 11.7% but tested at 15.4% (per your source), the odds of that small increase, over that amount of feed, causing founder in a non-metabolic horse, is really, really low. Even if you were feeding 10lb, that increase for a horse who is at best so mildly metabolic youâve never had any concerns about testing hay or limiting pasture is so highly unlikely to be a trigger
Add in the Equianalytical report that was sent to me from a 3rd party reporting the dramatic difference in Starch, ESC & WSC, in a feed that is specifically marketed & advertised for horses with metabolic issues, and it raises concern.
11.7% to 15.4% is not dramatic.
Can we trust what the feed manufacturerâs are telling us if the contents of the bag differ from what is published?
Emphatically trust? No. I donât think anyone believes they can. At least, not anyone who has any idea of how feeds are made
In hindsight, I wish I had saved feed samples, lot numbers, etc from back in December & January. Since I didnât save those, thankfully, I am in contact with the person from my area that sent me her report, and I am hoping she did!
Are you implying that she tested the exact bag or batch of feed that you were feeding?
Regardless of the circumstances surrounding my horseâs laminitis, at this time, I do not trust whatâs in this companyâs feed bags and like the hundreds of concerned customerâs on their Facebook page, the simple solution was to just switch feed.
Then youâd probably do best to not feed any commercial feed.
However, as a concerned horse owner, I felt compelled to raise my concerns, and see if any other horses may have also developed laminitis during this time period.
I bet there are lots of horses who became laminitic in January, while eating a TC feed, when temps were cold and they werenât exercised (as much) and were eating too-high NSC hay and not having known, let alone unknown, metabolic issues supported with appropriate supplements.
Nobody on this thread is disputing that there have been some issues with the new mills. Definitely not me, and Iâve been a huge TC fan for years. Corn? Nearly every company that mills horse feed uses corn to clean chutes between batches of feeds. I find the odd kernel in alfalfa pellets, and have found corn bits in every feed Iâve used, whether Progressive or Tribute or TC, whether a regular feed or ration balancer, ALL of which are corn-free formulas.
Donât think Iâm on this thread to defend TC for whatever issues are going on. The stories on many of the posts on FB about issues are not trivial nor low in numbers.
But you are ignoring everything else about this situation and your environment, and keep harping on why it MUST have been the TC, not possibly anything else. Youâve already made up your mind itâs TCâs fault.
If you were honestly looking for answers, you would have started out with, or by now filled in all the gaps asked for, every detail of how your horse was managed - turnout, exercise, diet, all of it.
But youâre ignoring multiple requests for more information. Why?
7 Likes
At this point, Iâll conclude that OP simply has no idea what her horse was eating or she would have posted it.
5 Likes
And Iâll bet we never hear back from her again!
2 Likes
